Popular Post JohnS Posted January 29, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 29, 2017 There's a lot in that title, isn't there? I was having a chat with a valued friend on FoH recently about this topic and he suggested I put up on the forum for discussion, which I thought was a good idea! Basically, it all started from me thinking how perhaps modern Habanos S.A trends for larger ring gauge cigars are not suited to the Hoyo de Monterrey marca. I say that because... recent and past discontinued Le Hoyo line (including the much-loved forum favourite, the du Prince) has been standard ring gauge or lower apart from the Diademas 'Monterrey' discontinued in 1980, practically all regular production Hoyo de Monterrey has been 50 ring gauge or under in the past the Le Hoyo San Juan is the largest ring gauge Hoyo de Monterrey cigar at 54 ring gauge (by 150 mm) Now Hoyo de Monterrey is known a lighter-bodied marca, with a cedar and cream texture (some may prefer flavour) which develops with age. My understanding is that the marca utilises mainly seco (and obviously volado) leaf to give it its blend, but interestingly the San Juan contains seco and ligero leaf according to Habanos' website page on the vitola. I quite like the San Juan, it was in my Top 10 cigars of 2016, and I have it as a 'change-of-pace' option in my rotation. I also have another box resting long-term (of the San Juan). The points of discussion I'd like us to consider are... is the typical Hoyo de Monterrey blend suited to post-50 ring gauge cigars? is the San Juan different in blend to the rest of the Le Hoyo line (which is smaller)? have Habanos S.A 'missed a trick', so to speak, by ignoring past trends and introducing a post-50 ring gauge regular production cigar in 2014? if you believe the San Juan is different in blend to other Hoyo de Monterrey cigars, how will this affect aging in comparison, in your opinion? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintMickey® Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I can not add anything to this but I think you are onto something here! I mean in order to keep cigar's flavor profile consistent you can't just keep adding tobacco...well you can but the blend would be impossible to control, I would think, and well then you end up with a 56 gauge Hoyo ultimately. Its like making chili once you put in 4 pounds of beans you better have the right blend of chili power and beef to go with...and a big pot. Some of the newer cigars with larger ring gauge were created larger and thus we accept their blend. Like I said I have nothing to add to this topic! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garbandz Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 "is the atypical Hoyo de Monterrey blend suited to post-50 ring gauge cigars" as written it is not clear what you are asking. if you substitute "typical" for "atypical", I would have to say no. otherwise, yes. "is the San Juan different in blend to the rest of the Le Hoyo line (which is smaller)?" if there actually is Ligero in this blend,it has to be different. "Have Habanos S.A 'missed a trick', so to speak, by ignoring past trends and introducing a post-50 ring gauge regular production cigar in 2014?" It seems they are dead on course with their plan to bastardize their whole production with absurdly large cigars while lacking the components and desire to blend them to adequate levels to approximate the Marca profile. "If you believe the San Juan is different in blend to other Hoyo de Monterrey cigars, how will this affect aging in comparison, in your opinion" blend should not affect aging.it will effect eventual taste compared to regular blend Hoyo cigars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintMickey® Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 2 hours ago, garbandz said: It seems they are dead on course with their plan to bastardize their whole production with absurdly large cigars while lacking the components and desire to blend them to adequate levels to approximate the Marca profile. ^^^^^This^^^^^ No matter what else is said this. And you could add RE and LE and put a fork in it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymond5737 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Are you saying that Ligero isn't a typical element of Cuban Cigars? I like Ligero.., gives a cigar it's oomph! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 13 minutes ago, raymond5737 said: Are you saying that Ligero isn't a typical element of Cuban Cigars? It's more that some blends, and some sizes, use far less or in some cases no ligero. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 29, 2017 Author Share Posted January 29, 2017 4 hours ago, garbandz said: "is the atypical Hoyo de Monterrey blend suited to post-50 ring gauge cigars" as written it is not clear what you are asking. I posted the topic late last night. I adjusted that line to read 'typical' which is what I meant. My personal feelings is that the San Juan is a slightly different blend, in the same way that the Siglo VI is different to the Siglo I-V. Hoyo de Monterrey is a light-bodied marca. I quite like it from time to time, but I, like others here, have grown accustomed to a little 'kick' in my cigars which naturally comes from the ligero leaf up the middle of the cigar, which is much more dominant in other marcas. (Then again, I can't say I haven't had 'powerhouse' smaller ring gauge cigars, below 42 rg, which had a strong seco leaf element in them. Consequently, the seco leaf used in Hoyo de Monterrey is not usually powerful and flavoursome, in my experience...more cedar and slight sweet spice, with a cream texture.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbeaver Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 hours ago, Colt45 said: It's more that some blends, and some sizes, use far less or in some cases no ligero. I understood this as well. When Behike rolled out in 2010 (pardon the pun), was the rarity the usage finest, top ligero? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGlass Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I am a massive Hoyo de Monterrey fan, but I have only had a single San Juan (that actually came from a box split with you last year) and I didn't particularly like it. Now I know you can't judge an entire line off a single stick, but the last thing I need is another cigar added to the "must buy" list so I can't say I've rushed to try the second sample I have. Part of my issue was how different it was to the rest of the Hoyo de Monterrey marca as although the band doesn't directly affect the cigar, it does affect my expectations (as much as I try to hold myself above this) and what the San Juan presented was not what I expected. Is the typical Hoyo de Monterrey blend suited to post-50 ring gauge cigars? Personally, I don't think so. I don't have any notes, but I don't remember being particularly blown away by the Grand Epicure EL either, which was a 55 ring gauge but presumably with a blend more in line with standard production. Is the San Juan different in blend to the rest of the Le Hoyo line (which is smaller)? I believe so. Have Habanos S.A 'missed a trick', so to speak, by ignoring past trends and introducing a post-50 ring gauge regular production cigar in 2014? These massive ring gauge cigars appear to be selling phenominally well, so from their perspective in regards to sales I would have to say no. But as someone who really enjoys smaller ring gauge cigars, yes. If you believe the San Juan is different in blend to other Hoyo de Monterrey cigars, how will this affect aging in comparison, in your opinion? This one I can't really answer. I have no doubts that you can still age them, but I wouldn't expect the aged product to fall in line with other Hoyo de Monterrey cigars, just as the current cigar doesn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuma Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 You mates are on to something. Just one thing about the rg of San Juan. Where is the demand coming from for such a wide cigar. Making these size smokes must be taking away a huge amount of tabac from other marcas. I think as time goes on we will see even more discontinuted / popular well liked smokes feeding the huge rg.'d marcas. I vote with my wallet and taste buds so if Habanos keeps pushing these on us then maybe it's time to try more of the Opus X's, Padilla Reserva's, Ashton Estate Sun Grown, Quesada, Ltto Gomez Diez Lancero's, etc, etc,........as a wise man once said; when one door closes another opens. And in this case looks as if many doors are closing on the smokes from Habanos that are not part of the 4 main core brands. Again who favors such large rg.'d 10 box counts (sometimes 25) which come back from the grave at twice the price and a taste that few remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintMickey® Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Colt45 said: It's more that some blends, and some sizes, use far less or in some cases no ligero. I'd like this list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post polarbear Posted January 30, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 30, 2017 is the typical Hoyo de Monterrey blend suited to post-50 ring gauge cigars?That would depend on the skill of the original blender. The San Juan is not the only 50+rg to carry the Hoyo band. The Epicure Deluxe (52rg) and the Grand Epicure (55rg) also fit the 50+ mould and I consider to both to be good representations of the Hoyo line. The LE has a lot more chocolate in it that I would normally expect with traditional Epicures but its also a LE, so there had to be some blend compromise there is the San Juan different in blend to the rest of the Le Hoyo line (which is smaller)?I imagine every blend in the Hoyo marca regardless of size is different. They may contain the same tobaccos but the ratios would be widely different. And I would not be surprised if the larger hoyos have more Liegro in them than their smaller counterparts. The same comparison can be had between the Monte 2 and Monte Especial 1. Both are through and through Montecristo from what I have experienced. The Monte 2 is a blend of Seco, Viso and Liegro where as the Monte Especial 1 is primarily a Seco and Veso blend have Habanos S.A 'missed a trick', so to speak, by ignoring past trends and introducing a post-50 ring gauge regular production cigar in 2014?I'm not sure what you mean here. The wider market is demanding larger ring gauge cigars and you can fault HSA for giving the market what it wants. People forget, FOH is not a fair representation of what the market wants and cigars that show up on the discontinue list usually do because the wider cigar community do not buy them. Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "past trends". There hasn't been a regular production, sub 50rg cigar added to the Hoyo line for quite a while (correct me if I'm wrong) if you believe the San Juan is different in blend to other Hoyo de Monterrey cigars, how will this affect aging in comparison, in your opinionThat's the trick. From the few I've had I think they have legs up to around 7-10 years. After that its anyone's guess. I personally wouldn't be betting big money on any of the newer (post 2005) blends aging well past 10 years, but that's just me 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Another point The San Juan is not part of the traditional Hoyo Line It falls into its own sub category under the Le Hoyo line and therefore doesn't have to conform to the "traditional profile" of other Hoyos. Same thing applies the Cohiba Maduro, Partagas Maduro, Cohiba Siglo and Monte Opens (shudder) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duxnutz Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, polarbear said: Another point The San Juan is not part of the traditional Hoyo Line It falls into its own sub category under the Le Hoyo line and therefore doesn't have to conform to the "traditional profile" of other Hoyos. Same thing applies the Cohiba Maduro, Partagas Maduro, Cohiba Siglo and Monte Opens (shudder) Bingo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Thank you everyone for your responses. PB, I especially like to acknowledge your considered reply. I'm open to all dialogue on this matter, I guess I'm just curious. When it comes to Hoyo de Monterrey, I tend to go for the Le Hoyo line. My 'missed a trick' comment is related to the majority of Le Hoyo cigars, past and present, being standard gauge or lower. The Hoyo de Monterrey Le Hoyo des Dieux, in my mind, represents the apex of the Le Hoyo line and I wonder if the blend in these standard ring gauge cigars lack a ligero leaf in their blend, in comparison to the San Juan. Still, I do like the San Juan, but the des Dieux is in a different class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 26 minutes ago, JohnS said: Thank you everyone for your responses. PB, I especially like to acknowledge your considered reply. I'm open to all dialogue on this matter, I guess I'm just curious. When it comes to Hoyo de Monterrey, I tend to go for the Le Hoyo line. My 'missed a trick' comment is related to the majority of Le Hoyo cigars, past and present, being standard gauge or lower. The Hoyo de Monterrey Le Hoyo des Dieux, in my mind, represents the apex of the Le Hoyo line and I wonder if the blend in these standard ring gauge cigars lack a ligero leaf in their blend, in comparison to the San Juan. Still, I do like the San Juan, but the des Dieux is in a different class. Pretty sure none of the Le Hoyo range, barring the San Juan, have any ligero in the blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, Fuzz said: Pretty sure none of the Le Hoyo range, barring the San Juan, have any ligero in the blend. Yes, I think that is the case too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzz Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Though, now that I think about it, maybe the Des Dieux does have a little bit of ligero... but it would be less than 20% of the blend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt45 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 9 hours ago, SaintMickey® said: I'd like this list Just give Tabacuba a jangle - they freely provide proprietary information to all who seek it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel8136 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Curious to know where does the epicure de luxe lcdh stand with other hoyo mentionedSent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oside Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/29/2017 at 4:43 AM, JohnS said: is the San Juan different in blend to the rest of the Le Hoyo line (which is smaller)? I'm guessing they are a different blend. The San Juan seems very different in ring guage and naming, but have similarities in strength. Le Hoyo's typically are typically thin, while the San Juan is thick. Le Hoyo's names are typically French, while the San Juan seems Spanish. I feel the Le Hoyo's are richer than the epi 1 & 2 and I the the San Juan is similar in that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The 50+ ring gauge kick has been going on a decade now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, BrightonCorgi said: The 50+ ring gauge kick has been going on a decade now... Yes, but interestingly, not so for regular production Hoyo de Monterrey. The San Juan is the only post 50 ring guage regular production HdM cigar in that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polarbear Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, JohnS said: Yes, but interestingly, not so for regular production Hoyo de Monterrey. The San Juan is the only post 50 ring guage regular production HdM cigar in that time. My memory is a little fuzzy but what came out before the San Juan? Wasn't it the Petit Robusto? The hoyo line hasn't had a sub 50rg cigar added to its reg production line up for quite a while if I recall I don't think there have been more than 2 or 3 sub 50rg cigars added to any Marca in the last 10 years HSA's releases seem to have either been catering to large 50-55rg smokers or short smokes (half robustos and half coronas) There hasn't been a regular production, full size corona or corona gorda added to any marca since the Mag 46 way back in 2001(?) There hasn't been a regular production lancero since (maybe) the cohiba lancero back in the 90's I don't think what you're seeing is isolated the the Hoyo line. All the global marcas are receiving large rg additions to their portfolios (Uppman with the Connie A and Mag 54, Partagas with the Serie E ect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightonCorgi Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Has anyone tried to get an FOH line of cigars rolled? Is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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