Fugu Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 9 hours ago, bundwallah said: Those who love "plume" talk about it like they found a white truffle bounty in their flower pots. Yes, but if you ask me that's all drivel. Plume is "matter" coming up to the surface of a cigar that has previously been present inside the tobacco. There is no bad or good, loss or improvement to the cigar by its sheer presence. For me, it is always indicative of variable storage conditions, so as such not a particularly good sign.... I prefer my aged/vintage stock looking as pristine as possible. There had been an interesting article about the topic in an issue of Cigar Journal a few yeras back. According to that it may not always be as simple and easy as it seems. There are obviously forms of bloom that can resemble mould very closely (fluffy, feathery). Needs a microscope or chemical means to be sure. Will see whether I can track it down. 1
RijkdeGooier Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 13 hours ago, SaintMickey® said: Wonder if there is acceptable mold and nasty mold. I mean everything I've read describes mold as green and grey and gross. That was white...as someone said I too would love to ask Ajay and I'd believe whatever he told me probably. Also it's not like they didn't realize they were on video for everyone to see. Somebody ring up Ajay.... A reaction by Ajay is forthcoming I believe. 1
Puros Y Vino Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 7 hours ago, Fugu said: Yes, but if you ask me that's all drivel. Plume is "matter" coming up to the surface of a cigar that has previously been present inside the tobacco. There is no bad or good, loss or improvement to the cigar by its sheer presence. For me, it is always indicative of variable storage conditions, so as such not a particularly good sign.... I prefer my aged/vintage stock looking as pristine as possible. There had been an interesting article about the topic in an issue of Cigar Journal a few yeras back. According to that it may not always be as simple and easy as it seems. There are obviously forms of bloom that can resemble mould very closely (fluffy, feathery). Needs a microscope or chemical means to be sure. Will see whether I can track it down. Of course it's drivel. Real "plume" is very rare. I've only seen it a handful of times myself. Plume is mold in this case. Mold covers 99.999% of everything on this planet. It's only under certain conditions where it flourishes. And some seem to think that's a good thing on cigars. I recall the article you're referring to as well. That magazine alone has done wonders for educating smokers on the matter of plume vs mold.
RijkdeGooier Posted December 29, 2016 Posted December 29, 2016 Plume is relatively rare but I've come across it as well as mold (both white and blue/green/black). In the end there's a real simple test. Lick it. Real plume tastes a bit like caramelised sugar, mold not so much. 2
Popular Post ajay Posted December 30, 2016 Popular Post Posted December 30, 2016 Hello all on this discussion thank you for taking your time to view my video. I thought I was not a member on FOH, after talking to Rob, if i could log in as a guest he reminded me I was a member already since 2010 opps!...I was sent an message from a member on this board to let me know there was a discussion, on Plume, Bloom and Mold. A video which I posted back in 2013, thank you for letting me know. Just too clearly what I said! I said it was Plume! You will see I brush this off with my fingers and came off easy. Mold would not come of as easy and would leave a Stain on the wrapper. It was Dav Sov, who said it’s not Mold, and I clearly said it was NOT! Yes, a few of you have said, I should have checked the boxes before, this I normally do. This time I just collected the items from one of my lockers at LCDH and brought over to show, and make a video to share on youtube. We enjoy the Hoyo Maravilla. The Obras Book, is which this discussion! Is still full and checked to make sure it’s not mold. It was Plume on the cigars. I would also like to say, this discussion also helps, help others to check their cigars, as sometimes we are all busy and do forget…I do not clam I know everything, and I still say im leaning still about cigars and tobacco, always good to hear what others have to say. I hope this helps with this discussion and would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year for 2017. Just like to share the difference with Plume, Bloom and Mold… Plume: is where you have an even layer of plume which is coursed by humidity and oils, which lays on the wrappers, this look like crystals on the wrapper looking very close. This helps to bring the oils out from the wrappers, this is good plume but need to be controlled. Bloom: these are spots, small circular bloom that appears on wrappers. Very small, crystals looking circles in certain area where the humidity is higher. In all humidors you get wetter areas then other parts. Sometimes it even depends on where the wrappers are from. (This is another subject) this is good bloom but needs to be controlled as well. Mold: Grey and green looking, looks like hair and spiders web!. Used wrong water over a long period, the smell, will be different as well. If left for a long time, when you whip off, it will leave a stain on the wrapper, once this goes up the foot of the cigar you may as well throw this, if court at the right time you can rescue the cigar. This is Bad mold... 5
Fugu Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 Thanks for taking the time to chime in Ajay! Problem here is, as with many things related to the leaf - nothing has been investigated systematically. There is a lot of hearsay and myth handed down through the community. Purported wisdom, which has never really been questioned for its actual validity and plausibility anymore. I guess I am hardly in agreement with much of what you say, but hey, in the end everybody needs to find his best working practise. I for one prefer my cigars stored in a way that they don't develop either of both - no mould, no bloom. That being said, the white stuff found on the Cuaba, be it mould be it plume, surely has been harmless to the cigar, a non-issue really. Cheers and best wishes for the New Year to you in return, Goo 2
SaintMickey® Posted December 30, 2016 Author Posted December 30, 2016 2 hours ago, ajay said: Hello all on this discussion thank you for taking your time to view my video. I thought I was not a member on FOH, after talking to Rob, if i could log in as a guest he reminded me I was a member already since 2010 opps!...I was sent an message from a member on this board to let me know there was a discussion, on Plume, Bloom and Mold. A video which I posted back in 2013, thank you for letting me know. Ajay! Thanks for the reply as I was the one who initially posted the video. Watch all your videos...Glad your here. I've always used the same standard and will continue to do so. Thanks for confirming your opinion. No matter what we agree on White and Easy to wipe off...ok. Grey/Green and stains...no good. up the foot-trash. Thanks again. I hope to find you in London one day! Or throw a party for Rob and invite all of us...
Smallclub Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 3 hours ago, Fugu said: That being said, the white stuff found on the Cuaba, be it mould be it plume, surely has been harmless to the cigar, a non-issue really. It is mould… and yes it's harmless then why not accepting it for what it actually is? And plume can't be brushed just like that – sometimes you can hardly remove it, it's stuck in the wrapper, it has became part of it, just like in this Piedra posted by NSXcigar 2
NSXCIGAR Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 While I think we all appreciate Ajay responding I think this may have created an even greater debate than there was... 1
RWhiz Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 I agree, what people will will say when they feel a giant commission slipping away. 1
SaintMickey® Posted December 30, 2016 Author Posted December 30, 2016 Chalk this one up to....One of life's little mysteries...
Lotusguy Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 ...and that's how these myths keep being perpetuated. As always - consider the source.
PigFish Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 So this begs further questions. How do I control plume? Do I want to control it? What is it and how (exactly) is it formed? If it is crystalline, likely a salt, 'ocean water in the spray booths at El Laguito???' Rogue diatoms from coastal vegas? The Andromeda strain??? How does 'plume' just know to grow (correct term?) on the outside of tobacco leaf? Why does its presence inside the cigar ruin it??? "Honey! Seen my muck boots?..." -the Pig 4
JohnS Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 On 30/12/2016 at 0:17 AM, Fugu said: There had been an interesting article about the topic in an issue of Cigar Journal a few yeras back. According to that it may not always be as simple and easy as it seems. There are obviously forms of bloom that can resemble mould very closely (fluffy, feathery). Needs a microscope or chemical means to be sure. Will see whether I can track it down. I located some on-line references... http://www.cigarjournal.co/store-cigars-in-a-cool-place/ http://www.cigarjournal.co/cool-storage-for-cigars-part-2/ Or, it could be in the Spring 2010 Edition (Article - Storing Cigars: Mold or Cigar Bloom?) Anyway, I've enjoyed reading this thread and I wanted to gratefully thank Ajay for responding, and also our beloved Moderators on this great forum who may need to lock this topic in the near future (just saying! ). 2
PigFish Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 22 minutes ago, JohnS said: Anyway, I've enjoyed reading this thread and I wanted to gratefully thank Ajay for responding, and also our beloved Moderators on this great forum who may need to lock this topic in the near future (just saying! ). ... too rough for ya' John? -LOL There is a quote from a Tennessee Williams play... I rather like it. "There ain't nothin' more powerful than the oda' of mendacity!!!" -LOL I shall say no more! Cheers mate! -R
JohnS Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 5 minutes ago, PigFish said: ... too rough for ya' John? -LOL On the contrary, I'm secretly hoping this thread may become 2016's version of the Plume-Bloom-Mold thread ! (Unless it gets locked! ) 1
Habanos2000 Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 3 hours ago, RWhiz said: I agree, what people will will say when they feel a giant commission slipping away. I disagree. I don't think AJ was trying to sell any of these, just showing them off. I would too, if I were him and likewise I would have loved to have been there to see them (and bust his chops a bit about the "plume")
Fugu Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 6 hours ago, Smallclub said: It is mould… and yes it's harmless then why not accepting it for what it actually is? As for me personally (should you addressing that at me Smallclub), I am not questioning the facts of the case, but intentionally put it neutral here in order to emphasize the main statement of my sentence. (Though in all fairness, I have to concede a certain residual uncertainty in the scientific diagnosis, for not having seen it in life.) But in an unequivocal support of what SC sais - The typical and often reproduced "wiping off"-statement is nothing less than myth (one of the many I alluded to above). There are forms of bloom that are firmly sticking to the wrapper, and there is mould that wipes off easily without leaving any stains. That simply is not a discriminative feature in that context. 50 minutes ago, JohnS said: Or, it could be in the Spring 2010 Edition (Article - Storing Cigars: Mold or Cigar Bloom?) Thanks John, excellent, that last one was the one I meant. Couldn't find it online anymore on CJ, but found it on the website of the author. So, here is some further reading.... open up for debate.... (can't comment out of own experience, as I rarely get to see most of the discussed structures.... haha ) 1
El Presidente Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 A straight Google search will show approximately 1.5 million types of mould in the world. How many apply to cigars....No idea. I have seen crystalised formations on cigars very few times in my life. What is it....I have no idea. I assume plume. Why is it good?...no idea. Foxy and I have had this discussion earlier in the year. His definition of plume is different to mine. Whose right? probably neither of us. Am I afraid to show white mould spots on a cigar. No. it is a fact of life. Not sure why I or anyone else would pretend it's not. if I see a box covered in white mould, then I act as if I have a problem. I want to find out why and there is generally a reason. if mould (any colour) is in the foot, it is thrown out. No questions asked. if it is covering cigars like a blanket, it is thrown out. I rarely come across it. Why do I throw them out....because i am uncomfortable. Looking for a scientific explanation....can't give it to you as I don't know. i will often put up a mastercase of white mould affected cigars. Upmann Connie 1's and Punch Punch in 2016 come to mind. Why did I do that?......there was no mould on the foot and they tasted bloody good. That is the height of my scientific assessment. If mould doesn't come off a wrapper with the wipe of a tissue or brush, i throw it out. Why? i am uncomfortable. i assume it is a different type of mould. I am not a Mycologist although maybe it is worthwhile hiring one to do an assessment of cigar moulds/plume/bloom/shoom in 2017. i am up for it but I can't tell you something if I don't personally know. My theories of Mould/plume/bloom are not based on science. The longer I have been in this game, the more confused I become. Let's see if in 2017 we can hire someone (Mycologist) to do some proper scientific inquiry. 1
RWhiz Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Habanos2000 said: I disagree. I don't think AJ was trying to sell any of these, just showing them off. I would too, if I were him and likewise I would have loved to have been there to see them (and bust his chops a bit about the "plume") He is showing the product off to a group of cigar journalists in front of a camera he knows is running to elicit interest in the product I would assume he is interested in selling at some time for a profit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling a product for profit, this site dose so, and since I've been here I have grown to trust this site for the products it sells. The last 5 boxes I've bought have been from here. With that said, I would not at this time want to make a purchase from the individual in the video. YMMV and you are free to disagree with my opinions as they are as flawed as any! 1
jfire Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 @El PresidenteThe master case of moldy D4s you sold for 160 a few months back...I bought 3. Sold one to a D4 fanatic/friend at cost. I Kept 2 for later use.He said they were the best young D4s he's ever had.(he smoked the whole box) Thank you again!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NSXCIGAR Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 5 hours ago, Habanos2000 said: I disagree. I don't think AJ was trying to sell any of these, just showing them off. I would too, if I were him and likewise I would have loved to have been there to see them (and bust his chops a bit about the "plume") When Ajay notes "...The Obras Book, is which this discussion! Is still full and checked to make sure it’s not mold," I'm assuming it's because he has those available for sale. So while apparently not selling the cigars appearing in the video, he is selling cigars of the same category and caliber that one could reasonably assume are being stored in similar--if not the exact same--conditions to the cigars in the video. I've also hesitated to comment on any specific statement made by Ajay, but there's one I feel obligated to address because it contradicts something I've personally experienced. The statement "I said it was Plume! You will see I brush this off with my fingers and came off easy. Mold would not come of as easy and would leave a Stain on the wrapper..." contradicts my personal experience and perhaps many others' as well. I can think of exactly zero instances out of many dozens where wiped-off wrapper mold leaves a residue or staining of any kind whatsoever. White mold on the wrapper always wiped off cleanly and once removed, it's as good as never having been there. Also, plume/bloom often is very difficult, if not impossible, to "wipe off" or remove. Plume/bloom can become effectively embedded in the wrapper. In my personal experience, mold has always been easier to remove than plume/bloom. And finally, I have never, ever seen anything other than white mold on a cigar. I'm sure if left in a flooded basement in Florida in July next to a pile of rotting fruit cigars could potentially develop many different types of mold. But I have never seen anything from a vendor or in personal storage develop mold any color other than the white, "furry" or "fluffy" mold that many of us are accustomed to seeing and can easily recognize. There's nothing else I feel I can legitimately comment on based on strictly personal experience, but that's almost 25 years of smoking premium cigars with the last 20 being Cuban cigars. And if anyone else has a different experience with any kind of staining or residue left behind after wiping off white mold (as the color of the "deposits" on the cigars in the video was white), or if anyone has always been able to wipe plume/bloom off easily every time, or if they've ever seen mold on a cigar wrapper a color other than white please chime in here.
Shikar Posted December 31, 2016 Posted December 31, 2016 Ploomin' onions.... this is a conversation that I see we are all just trying to be polite about.....Regards. 3
SaintMickey® Posted December 31, 2016 Author Posted December 31, 2016 18 hours ago, JohnS said: I located some on-line references... http://www.cigarjournal.co/store-cigars-in-a-cool-place/ http://www.cigarjournal.co/cool-storage-for-cigars-part-2/ Or, it could be in the Spring 2010 Edition (Article - Storing Cigars: Mold or Cigar Bloom?) Anyway, I've enjoyed reading this thread and I wanted to gratefully thank Ajay for responding, and also our beloved Moderators on this great forum who may need to lock this topic in the near future (just saying! ). Great articles John thank you. Learned/confirmed a couple theories. Happy New Year.
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