Great Video...your opinion at 8:33?

[Lotusguy]

"Plume"

[feral]

I always wipe off the "plume" of a young cigar BEFORE gifting them.

[Smallclub]

4 hours ago, Jimmy_jack said:

I Ajay is on a completely difference universe than me when it comes to cigars. I could only hope to have 1/10th of his knowledge and experience as it relates to cigars.

An universe where there's no difference between spores and crystallized oils?

I'm sure AP is a great person, but if he had real knowledge and/or experience he wouldn't do such a gaffe in front of two so-called cigar journalists who, by chance,  just showed that they don't know better…

[RijkdeGooier]

Did anyone run this vid and it's discussion by AJ yet?

 

Edit to add

It is an interesting vid but to judge/condemn a cigar professional on the basis of what might have been a gaffe or a sarcastic joke seems a bit over the top to me. 

[Fugu]

In defense of AP, Mott was the one dropping "plume", and it appears to me Patel didn't want to correct him in front of the camera or speak out loud the nasty word. But by his further reasoning (growing inside, wiping off, too high humidity) it becomes clear he was talking about mould.

And can someone please explain to me what it was they were meaning by that 14s and 15s statement that Mott comes up with repeatedly in the vid, or 14th, 15th? (I don't get everything they said as the sound is so poor. Seems they set up the mike outside on the patio, with the sparrows' chirping being crisper and cleaner than the conversation... )

[LLC]

He was referring to CA 100 point scale and 15 of those points being for a cigars appearance. One bundle from the humidor were in is opinion 15's and the other bundle from the same humidor were 14's. They made the comment that two bundles in the same humidor should be the same color.


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[Fugu]

1 hour ago, LLC said:

He was referring to CA 100 point scale and 15 of those points being for a cigars appearance. One bundle from the humidor were in is opinion 15's and the other bundle from the same humidor were 14's. They made the comment that two bundles in the same humidor should be the same color.


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Thanks LLC, got it now!

Re-watched it - so Mott is classifying the second bundle lower in appearance because it is of lighter colour, do I get that right? And also, did I hear him say something like "that reddish-brown corojo-colour"... I mean, ahem... corojo-colour?!

Actually, surprised to learn how little knowledge the two CA "experts" display here in their field and on the presented editions in particular (well, perhaps not surprising... ).

 

On second view I have to actually revise my previous statement: @ around 09:12 Savona is asking "that's not mould?" Patel: "No, that's not mould".... 

[Smallclub]

1 hour ago, Hutch said:

 either knowledge or integrity...the viewer can choose  The fact that all three of them allowed that video to be released SCREAMS something entirely different.

So true.

[LGC]

The fact that AP, not only said it, wiped the cigars off, and commented on humidity and it getting into the end of the cigar, speaks volumes about either knowledge or integrity...the viewer can choose  The fact that all three of them allowed that video to be released SCREAMS something entirely different.

Precisely. Why not stop the video and start again?

[TomF]

4 hours ago, Fugu said:

In defense of AP, Mott was the one dropping "plume", and it appears to me Patel didn't want to correct him in front of the camera or speak out loud the nasty word. But by his further reasoning (growing inside, wiping off, too high humidity) it becomes clear he was talking about mould.

And can someone please explain to me what it was they were meaning by that 14s and 15s statement that Mott comes up with repeatedly in the vid, or 14th, 15th? (I don't get everything they said as the sound is so poor. Seems they set up the mike outside on the patio, with the sparrows' chirping being crisper and cleaner than the conversation... )

"If I have to think about it...it's not a [15] ... " Right Prez...??

[wabashcr]

4 hours ago, Fugu said:

In defense of AP, Mott was the one dropping "plume", and it appears to me Patel didn't want to correct him in front of the camera or speak out loud the nasty word. But by his further reasoning (growing inside, wiping off, too high humidity) it becomes clear he was talking about mould.

 

At the 9:11 mark, David Savona specifically asks "But it's not mold?"  Ajay confirms, "It's not mold."  I'm wondering if maybe Ajay thinks the CA guys have a different definition of mold and plume?  You're right, he's clearly treating it like mold, and discarding it as such.  I think possibly Ajay just didn't want to get into a tangent discussion about mold and plume, considering the type and amount he had there was pretty inconsequential (in my opinion of course).  I'm surprised he handled this the way he did.  I don't think it's quite the same as trying to pass off mold as plume to an unsuspecting buyer, but it's not exactly honest, either.  I'm willing to give him some benefit of the doubt, based on his reputation.  We all make mistakes.

[Fugu]

32 minutes ago, Brandon said:

Precisely. Why not stop the video and start again?

Guess it's way more authentic the way it actually went...

[Fugu]

2 minutes ago, wabashcr said:

At the 9:11 mark, David Savona specifically asks "But it's not mold?"  Ajay confirms, "It's not mold."

Yes, seen that on repeated watching (see above). Either way, it's certainly not making any sense. I agree, the motive may have been somewhere along those lines, as you draft them. I often think, people even sometimes intentionally use the expression "plume" as an euphemism for mould. Sure, not here in this case, as he denied it being that.

[Dave001]

definitely mold amazing how this guy keeps boxes and boxes of vintage cigars and just shrugs it off "its not mold" yea ok ajay then I guess I can also say "not buying your vintage cigars"

[RWhiz]

*Warning* Internet Rant!

what I see in this thing is pure snobbery, a sales guys with a British accent unboxing some fancy assortment of good cigars in front of a couple guys who write for a cigar publication a the 'presentation' gets sideways when he opens the overly fancy box to revival a moldy cigar.  Everyone present knew exactly what it was but started in about plume and that is important to keep the plume from getting into the foot.  What a crock! I know they were trying to be polite, but stuff happens and cigars get moldy, just man up and own it rather than lie it off like these guys did!  I see this so much at work, guys playing off mistakes rather than owning it and making it better next time.  

A man's character is defined when the situation goes sideways, not when all is well. 

[NSXCIGAR]

37 minutes ago, Fugu said:

Yes, seen that on repeated watching (see above). Either way, it's certainly not making any sense. I agree, the motive may have been somewhere along those lines, as you draft them. I often think, people even sometimes intentionally use the expression "plume" as an euphemism for mould. Sure, not here in this case, as he denied it being that.

Some people might use those terms interchangeably, but those guys should not be. Plume and bloom are synonymous, but mold is mold. 

I'm trying to give those guys the benefit of the doubt but it's not easy on this one. These three in particular have absolutely no excuse. The only thing that makes sense after re-watching the whole exchange is that they (or at least AP) were a bit embarrassed about the presence of the mold and there ensued a scramble to sweep it under the rug..

I'm guessing the reflex was that mold would reflect poorly on whomever was storing the cigars and the video wouldn't be definitive and that a quick wipe would erase the evidence and then move on. Unfortunately, video resolutions are too good these days. I'm just surprised they wouldn't have edited it out. Why even chance someone knowledgeable noticing?

As is often the case, the cover-up is worse than the crime.

[Lotusguy]

It's not that uncommon - just recently, an official habanos sommelier of the year or some such posted some obviously terribly moldy LGC on one of the Facebook groups and kept defending them. I don't really trust any of these so-called experts.


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[boopdeep]

I always enjoy Ajay's videos - both for the spectacle and the education.  Certainly curious here -- everything he says about the "substance" is true about mold.  He treats it like mold.  He describes it like mold.  He says it's from too much humidity.  But it is curious that he responds to David's question by saying it's not mold.  I don't think there's dishonesty here just because he did not describe it as what we seem to be calling "plume."  He doesn't remark how great the plume is or what plume tells you about a well-aged cigar.  He describes it as mold.  Gordon concurs to wipe it off and as long as not up the foot, it should not hurt the cigar.  I think they are all collectively in agreement that it is mold, but terminology seems off.  I still can't quit grasp Ajay's response to David that it's not mold, but he's not, in my opinion, acting like it is plume.  My personal belief is that they are being "polite" to whomever stored/sourced the cigars.  And, once again, I do appreciate the spectacle of unboxing and displaying these cigars.  

Edited December 28, 2016 by boopdeep

[SaintMickey®]

3 hours ago, boopdeep said:

I always enjoy Ajay's videos - both for the spectacle and the education.  Certainly curious here -- everything he says about the "substance" is true about mold.  He treats it like mold.  He describes it like mold.  He says it's from too much humidity.  But it is curious that he responds to David's question by saying it's not mold.  I don't think there's dishonesty here just because he did not describe it as what we seem to be calling "plume."  He doesn't remark how great the plume is or what plume tells you about a well-aged cigar.  He describes it as mold.  Gordon concurs to wipe it off and as long as not up the foot, it should not hurt the cigar.  I think they are all collectively in agreement that it is mold, but terminology seems off.  I still can't quit grasp Ajay's response to David that it's not mold, but he's not, in my opinion, acting like it is plume.  My personal belief is that they are being "polite" to whomever stored/sourced the cigars.  And, once again, I do appreciate the spectacle of unboxing and displaying these cigars.  

Wonder if there is acceptable mold and nasty mold. I mean everything I've read describes mold as green and grey and gross. That was white...as someone said I too would love to ask Ajay and I'd believe whatever he told me probably. Also it's not like they didn't realize they were on video for everyone to see.

Somebody ring up Ajay....

[Smallclub]

47 minutes ago, SaintMickey® said:

Wonder if there is acceptable mold and nasty mold. I mean everything I've read describes mold as green and grey and gross.

I wonder where you've read this. I've seen mold in almost every cigar shop I've visited in France, Spain, Andorra, Switzerland. But I've NEVER seen any mold that wasn't white.

Davidoff had no problem with a bit of mold, to him mold showed that the cigar was "alive", in good ealth…

Honestly, people who think mold (white) isn't acceptable should find an other hobby, because mold can occur in the best managed shops, in the most watched collections.

I remember Min Ron Nee showing a bad case of mold in a box from his collection, on a once great forum…

[SaintMickey®]

20 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

I wonder where you've read this. I've seen mold in almost every cigar shop I've visited in France, Spain, Andorra, Switzerland. But I've NEVER seen any mold that wasn't white.

Davidoff had no problem with a bit of mold, to him mold showed that the cigar was "alive", in good ealth…

Honestly, people who think mold (white) isn't acceptable should find an other hobby, because mold can occur in the best managed shops, in the most watched collections.

I remember Min Ron Nee showing a bad case of mold in a box from his collection, on a once great forum…

Well I've only read about it over the years...Not saying these sources are foolproof but I guess I started to believe it as I read it so much.

I know you can google but these are some of the ones that came up when I searched.

https://www.jrcigars.com/blending-room/university/mold_plume/2015/06/22/

https://www.famous-smoke.com/cigaradvisor/is-it-plume-or-mold

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/webfeatures/show/id/brush-off-the-plume-18295

http://www.cigargeeks.com/community/boxx/knowledgebase.asp?iid=51&Cat=1

And finally I always used this as a standard...but I've been wrong lots before! This has happened to me...and when I wiped it off nothing but beautiful then and now cigars with zero damage to the wrapper:

Definative Mold vs. Plume Test

---

Hi all! Well, I just wanted to add my 2 cents to the Mold vs. Plume debate. I've been reading a lot of posts as well as hearing the discussions in lounges and it seems I heard it all...I've worked with mold and have smoked cigars for nearly 15 years...Here is a simple, definative test. If it is green or black it IS MOLD, so pitch it! If it is white, it could be mold or plume. Now there is no single exact way that it either will look all the time...so forget comparing pictures...and forget about crystals versus fuzz..whatever, etc...
Plume forms (in simplistic terms) from the inside of the leaf to the outside.
Mold from the outside to the inside.  
So, HERE IS THE TEST:
wipe a bit off. If the leaf looks great underneath, is it most likely Plume.
Since mold is essentially attacking the leaf, it will leave a mark or stain on the leaf. So if you wipe and the leaf beneath is marked, it is mold.
Hope this helps those in question!
I look foward to meeting many of you soon...

[Habanos2000]

I think the main lesson here is, if you're making a product presentation, make sure to check the samples before unwrapping them! To me this is a real backfire and trying to tap dance around it just makes the presenter look even more silly.

[SaintMickey®]

16 minutes ago, Habanos2000 said:

I think the main lesson here is, if you're making a product presentation, make sure to check the samples before unwrapping them! To me this is a real backfire and trying to tap dance around it just makes the presenter look even more silly.

 I think we can all agree that is the life lesson learned here!

[Puros Y Vino]

It seems like Ajay is getting his terminology mixed up. He's referring to mold as plume but is describing how to get rid of it as one would talk about mold.  Ie." you don't want it running up the foot".  If he was thinking of it as plume being a desired thing, he wouldn't be using language that hinted at being concerned about it being present.  Those who love "plume" talk about it like they found a white truffle bounty in their flower pots. 

[busdriver]

It appears he wipes off the substance in question over the other cigars.  If I happen to hit the lottery I will try to remember not to buy No. 49 / 1000 of this collection, unless that is the only one left.  A little white mold doesnt sacre me to bad.