The Steady Descent of Ramon Allones

[NSXCIGAR]

I'm not sure what HSA's up to but when you have brands that are not really brands but are more varieties or different menu items of the same restaurant you get very interesting dynamics. HSA sells all the tobacco they grow one way or another. The pricing structure is also fairly arbitrary and is somewhat detached from actual real-time market forces. Cubatabaco had no reason to be concerned with Monte gobbling up British market share in the 1970s. Made no difference to them--in their eyes Monte and RA are effectively the same product. In a normal industry, the company would have immediately recognized this as catastrophic and worked hard to compete with Monte. It probably wasn't even a blip on Cubatabaco's radar--just send the British more Monte!

Of course, we all sit here and think how many cigars would sell well that don't exist. And they probably would. But in HSA's mind they may take almost all available Diplomaticos, RA, LFDC and ERDM tobacco and dump it into REs as that's where they feel the profit and growth is. There is no chance RA, Dip or any other brand "fails" and therefore that changes a business approach. They can keep a brand on life support indefinitely and then resuscitate it as needed or just recruit them for special releases which appears to be the plan in recent years. Hell, they brought La Escepcion back after 23 years of total death and it was a smashing success--as a special release.

So it just looks like HSA's approach in the 2010s is full steam ahead with larger-RG special releases with regular production being secondary, although frequently superior in terms of quality. They've clearly pared down regular production to minimal vitolas (with RyJ & Partagas being an exception) and their priority is clearly special production. If they can increase their profit 50%+ with a Ramon Allones RE and use up a bunch of surplus volado in the process, they will. Why add an RA 898, Belicoso or Double Robusto to regular production when a RE 898 nets you 50% more profit and they can get away with less quality?

[Philc2001]

6 hours ago, ChanceSchmerr said:

Well said, @Professor Twain, although I'd argue that a properly aged Punch (like the Punch Petit Punch) comes close to that stewed fruit profile, just with a bit more sourness to it.

 

I have little experience with RAs, although recently I've been fortunate to land some aged RAs (late 90's, early 2000s, and some from 2012), and I like them quite a bit. They have a terrific refreshing flavor. However, I find them slightly on the milder side, which is a good thing. As compared to Punch, my favorite brand, I find Punch are fuller bodied, packed with that Cuban twang, and more suited to my taste buds. Aside from an 02 Tainos I had last night, which I have written a review on and will post shortly, I find few cigars have the flavor intensity and complexity of a well aged Punch SS#2. But that Tainos... oh my, what a wonderful cigar, best smoking experience I've had in 2016... I rate it a perfect 10 in my books.

[ChanceSchmerr]

3 hours ago, shlomo said:

Sourness in aged punch? I get peanuts or peanut butter every time.

Yeah, like if you stewed some stone fruit and stewed it but they still had a bit of pectin-y sourness. I personally love it.

I get peanuts rarely with aged punch, only once in a while.  Punch Descobridores RE Portugal, definitely peanuts in that one.

[ChanceSchmerr]

41 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

I have little experience with RAs, although recently I've been fortunate to land some aged RAs (late 90's, early 2000s, and some from 2012), and I like them quite a bit. They have a terrific refreshing flavor. However, I find them slightly on the milder side, which is a good thing. As compared to Punch, my favorite brand, I find Punch are fuller bodied, packed with that Cuban twang, and more suited to my taste buds. Aside from an 02 Tainos I had last night, which I have written a review on and will post shortly, I find few cigars have the flavor intensity and complexity of a well aged Punch SS#2. But that Tainos... oh my, what a wonderful cigar, best smoking experience I've had in 2016... I rate it a perfect 10 in my books.

I agree with you.  I smoked one of my white whales in London in late 2014 at Ajay's LCDH - an early 90's RA Gigantes. I was floored at how not-strong it was. Not necessarily mild - but far more subtle delivery.  Aged RA's are by no means full bodied, at least in my estimation. Even my 02 RA 898's are now only medium (although still bloody brilliant )

I'm inspired by your ERDM Tainos mention - I will have one of my last of a 2000 box over these holidays, my first of them in a long while.  Havn't had a Christmas cigar yet, I think that'll be the one now.

2 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I'm not sure what HSA's up to but when you have brands that are not really brands but are more varieties or different menu items of the same restaurant you get very interesting dynamics. HSA sells all the tobacco they grow one way or another. The pricing structure is also fairly arbitrary and is somewhat detached from actual real-time market forces. Cubatabaco had no reason to be concerned with Monte gobbling up British market share in the 1970s. Made no difference to them--in their eyes Monte and RA are effectively the same product. In a normal industry, the company would have immediately recognized this as catastrophic and worked hard to compete with Monte. It probably wasn't even a blip on Cubatabaco's radar--just send the British more Monte!

Of course, we all sit here and think how many cigars would sell well that don't exist. And they probably would. But in HSA's mind they may take almost all available Diplomaticos, RA, LFDC and ERDM tobacco and dump it into REs as that's where they feel the profit and growth is. There is no chance RA, Dip or any other brand "fails" and therefore that changes a business approach. They can keep a brand on life support indefinitely and then resuscitate it as needed or just recruit them for special releases which appears to be the plan in recent years. Hell, they brought La Escepcion back after 23 years of total death and it was a smashing success--as a special release.

So it just looks like HSA's approach in the 2010s is full steam ahead with larger-RG special releases with regular production being secondary, although frequently superior in terms of quality. They've clearly pared down regular production to minimal vitolas (with RyJ & Partagas being an exception) and their priority is clearly special production. If they can increase their profit 50%+ with a Ramon Allones RE and use up a bunch of surplus volado in the process, they will. Why add an RA 898, Belicoso or Double Robusto to regular production when a RE 898 nets you 50% more profit and they can get away with less quality?

Can't argue with the view of HSA's "logic".  I do think that the quality of RE's isn't necessarily lesser than the standard cigars.  There have been some spectacular RE's of late.  I just got blown away of how good the Bolivar RE Turquia was....even though I still hate the stupid-ass Petit Robusto/Edmundo size  I won't buy any boxes, but I have to hand it to them, it's a great tasting cigar.

[NSXCIGAR]

1 hour ago, ChanceSchmerr said:

Can't argue with the view of HSA's "logic".  I do think that the quality of RE's isn't necessarily lesser than the standard cigars.  There have been some spectacular RE's of late.  I just got blown away of how good the Bolivar RE Turquia was....even though I still hate the stupid-ass Petit Robusto/Edmundo size  I won't buy any boxes, but I have to hand it to them, it's a great tasting cigar.

I will say that it appears that the special release batting average has been quite a bit higher in the last 2-4 years. Perhaps they are finally putting some real and consistent effort into the LEs and REs, which is at least some consolation considering the new strategy. However, considering the higher price, they should be consistently better than good reg production and I just don't think they're there yet. And again, they know the special productions won't pile up if they're mediocre but some reg production might, so I understand why HSA would favor special production, all else equal.

[shlomo]

2 hours ago, ChanceSchmerr said:

Yeah, like if you stewed some stone fruit and stewed it but they still had a bit of pectin-y sourness. I personally love it.

I get peanuts rarely with aged punch, only once in a while.  Punch Descobridores RE Portugal, definitely peanuts in that one.

Dont get me started on stewed fruit.....LMAO

[RijkdeGooier]

Interesting. 

Of course the argument made by NSX rings very true. 

 

Stonefruit? More a RyJ thingy than Punch to me. Suum cuique I guess?

Here's a nice Punch Churchill from 2001 that smoked quite well to spread some Xmas cheers??

[Philc2001]

12 hours ago, ChanceSchmerr said:

I'm inspired by your ERDM Tainos mention - I will have one of my last of a 2000 box over these holidays, my first of them in a long while.  Havn't had a Christmas cigar yet, I think that'll be the one now.

I've posted it in the reviews section:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/topic/129520-el-rey-del-mundo-tainos-eca-may-02/

 

[avaldes]

The sad part is both the decimation of available sizes as well as the strength of RA. My best boxes all started out "strong as death" when new. But after 10 years they became spectacular cigars.

HSA could do one thing to make me happy, that would be to add more ligero to EVERY single cigar made. I would guess they are making softer cigars these days since ligero takes longer to cure.

[dtrott]

Thanks John for the great read .Through the years the RASS has always been one of my favorites

[Corylax18]

Thanks for posting. I enjoy RASS, RAGs, and Superiors and have multiple boxes of each in my stock. I cant compare the older ones to the newer, the oldest I have were 08 I think. I do enjoy the flavors very much though. I would love it if they re released something in the Corona, Dahlia, or Lancero range.