rugby continues to make itself irrelevant

[David88]

I think there have been some good games so far in this test window. There is a clear gulf though between the top 4 sides and the rest at the moment. Wales are a very good side but seem to lack the ability to close out games against the Southern Hemisphere sides. I was gutted for Scotland but do agree that on paper the aussies should have won comfortably. 

While im glad to see Jones doing well with England I am slightly pessimistic about how long it will last. There are some big egos involved, not least Jones's, and the day that he upsets some big players is more of a when than an if. Hopefully he can just restore some pride and expectation in the English national set up that has been lacking since 2003

[Ken Gargett]

14 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Wales has played Australia 40 times to date.  The Wallabies have won 29 matches, Wales won 20, and there was 1 draw.

Scotland and Australia have met 30 times so far, with 21 wins to Australia and 9 to Scotland.  

The ratio of points scored would suggest that Wales do slightly better than Scotland when either meet the Wallabies.

 

you might need to check the maths for the wales games???

[ayepatz]

Wales have won 10.

So Wales have won 25% of Aussie fixtures, while Scotland have won 30%.

 

[gweilgi]

2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

you might need to check the maths for the wales games???

The ratio of points scored versus points conceded was what I was referring to ... and promptly forgot to add to my post.  Sorry.

In 30 matches against Scotland, Australia scored 729 points to 386 for the Scots.

In 40 meetings between the Aussies and the Welsh, the Wallabies scored 944 points to the Taffies' 604.

This would suggest to me that the Welsh are actually better at scoring against Australia than the Scots.  

But then, this sort of statistical analysis probably interferes with the enjoyment of the game ... at the end of the day, a good match and beautiful tries is what I want to see.  It's why the Japan-SAFA match at the RWC was so special, and why I really look forward to seeing the French play this coming weekend: when they are on form, they can and do produce flair and genius that is just gorgeous to behold.  

 

[ayepatz]

1 hour ago, gweilgi said:

The ratio of points scored versus points conceded was what I was referring to ... and promptly forgot to add to my post.  Sorry.

In 30 matches against Scotland, Australia scored 729 points to 386 for the Scots.

In 40 meetings between the Aussies and the Welsh, the Wallabies scored 944 points to the Taffies' 604.

This would suggest to me that the Welsh are actually better at scoring against Australia than the Scots.  

But then, this sort of statistical analysis probably interferes with the enjoyment of the game ... at the end of the day, a good match and beautiful tries is what I want to see.  It's why the Japan-SAFA match at the RWC was so special, and why I really look forward to seeing the French play this coming weekend: when they are on form, they can and do produce flair and genius that is just gorgeous to behold.  

 

I love a good statistic! 

Totally agree about the French. It's about time they produced some magic again!

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, ayepatz said:

Wales have won 10.

So Wales have won 25% of Aussie fixtures, while Scotland have won 30%.

 

i meant it was quoted as 40 games but added up to 50. so was not sure which it should be.

 

as for scoring, perhaps the greatest game i ever saw was 9-3. not a try scored. awesome game. forward clashes for the ages, brilliant backlines, amazing defence. qld v the full strength all blacks in 1980, if i recall. although Qld was effectively the wallabies in those days. the selectors just kept weakening us by shoehorning in a few nsw players for reasons no one could understand.

[JohnS]

I think the Wallabies are 60-40 to defeat the French this weekend, 40-60 to defeat the Irish in Dublin and no chance to defeat the English in the last game of their 2016 tour. This is just my opinion, based on the current form of all teams involved. 

[ayepatz]

9 hours ago, JohnS said:

I think the Wallabies are 60-40 to defeat the French this weekend, 40-60 to defeat the Irish in Dublin and no chance to defeat the English in the last game of their 2016 tour. This is just my opinion, based on the current form of all teams involved. 

Yup, @JohnS, I agree with your assessment. France are all over the place lately, Ireland will be flying high after beating the All Blacks, and England, as much as it pains this Scot to admit, are on a roll.

However, as a neutral rugby fan for these fixtures, I'd like to see the French turn on some of that Gallic flair and give the Aussies a run for their money, followed by another great, close, end-to-end scrap against Ireland. Then my totally placid, even-handed, unbiased neutrality demands that the Wallabies absolutely batter and destroy the English through a "scorched earth" game plan, winning by no less than a 40 point margin. ?

[Baldy]

LOL @ayepatz.  Massive All Blacks fan from a place that's pretty damn far from NZ.  We shall see how they recover after Ireland in Chicago. In a one game match I would never count out the Wallabies or Springboxs. 

[JohnS]

This week the news on the Australian Rugby Union Front just got 'better'! As the game against France is not part of the 'Grand Slam' tour (i.e. matches in the UK with the Wallabies playing Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England) it has been decided to rest 11 players. I can't wait to get up tomorrow at 6.50 am (AEDT) to watch Australia play even more badly than if they had their starting XV. It seems every collective 'turn' the ARU makes lately I end up asking, "why, just why?"

[JohnS]

Well, somehow the Wallabies hung on to defeat France 25-23 in Paris this morning. I thought the game had some great free-flowing running Rugby, but as a Wallabies supporter I found it hard to overlook simple errors such as not finding touch after a penalty, losing line-outs and scrums and conceding turnovers and knocking-on. Fortunately for the Aussies, the French committed their fair share of errors in spreading the ball quickly, especially in the second half, but they still could have won if Camille Lopez succeeded in his drop-goal attempt after full-time. Do yourself a favour and check out that incredible try in the corner in the second half by Tevita Kuridrani, a sure match-winner if there was one!

In other Rugby news, South Africa coach Allister Coetzee should be looking for new employment opportunities after the Springboks lost 20-18 against Italy. Wales and Scotland both had narrow wins over Japan and Argentina respectively, the All Blacks avenged their defeat in Chicago a few weeks ago by downing the Irish 21-9 in Dublin and England continue to win, smashing Fiji 58-15.

Personally, I will be finding inventive way(s) to view the Australia-Ireland game next week as it's not on free-to-air TV. I still marginally back the Irish to win...we'll see. The Wallabies can't commit that many errors and not pay against the better teams.

[Ken Gargett]

13 minutes ago, JohnS said:

Well, somehow the Wallabies hung on to defeat France 25-23 in Paris this morning. I thought the game had some great free-flowing running Rugby, but as a Wallabies supporter I found it hard to overlook simple errors such as not finding touch after a penalty, losing line-outs and scrums and conceding turnovers and knocking-on. Fortunately for the Aussies, the French committed their fair share of errors in spreading the ball quickly, especially in the second half, but they still could have won if Camille Lopez succeeded in his drop-goal attempt after full-time. Do yourself a favour and check out that incredible try in the corner in the second half by Tevita Kuridrani, a sure match-winner if there was one!

In other Rugby news, South Africa coach Allister Coetzee should be looking for new employment opportunities after the Springboks lost 20-18 against Italy. Wales and Scotland both had narrow wins over Japan and Argentina respectively, the All Blacks avenged their defeat in Chicago a few weeks ago by downing the Irish 21-9 in Dublin and England continue to win, smashing Fiji 58-15.

Personally, I will be finding inventive way(s) to view the Australia-Ireland game next week as it's not on free-to-air TV. I still marginally back the Irish to win...we'll see. The Wallabies can't commit that many errors and not pay against the better teams.

good thoughts, john. nice to see kuranduri finally do something. been too much of a passenger. i know he scored the last minute try v scotland but if you watch the video replay, he had to struggle desperately when right next to him, an unmarked folau. a simple pass???

last night was fun and some good running rugby but hardly brilliant quality. too many errors.

as for south africa, holy crap. i know i bitch about the wallabies but imagine losing to japan and italy within a few months.

[David88]

The games this weekend have been fantastic to see. I didn't think much of the New Zealand tactics against Ireland though. I'm getting a bit tired of referees letting New Zealand do whatever they want. 

I have been thinking for a while that Italy have been in the 6 nations for a long time but seemingly have not pushed on so I was glad they got a win against a top side. South Africa are an absolute shambles at the moment though. They will need to have a serious rethink about their selection policy. 

Im glad England got the win but they are going to need to do better than that to beat Australia in 2 weeks. Australia should have too much for Ireland particularly with the injuries New Zealand have left Ireland with. 

[JohnS]

Well, Beauden Barrett definitely did not ground the ball, so that should have been no try. NZ coach Steve Hansen questioned why his team lost the penalty count 14-4 after the game, but I concur, the All Blacks don't have enough referees at the top level 'call them up' on their play often enough. Still, the Irish made 243 passes to New Zealand’s 134, won 18 lineouts to New Zealand’s 7, and the All Blacks made 166 tackles to Ireland’s 76, yet Ireland couldn't score a try despite all that possession.

[David88]

I thought the constant high challenges and plan to seemingly rough Ireland up were ridiculous. Henshaw was stretchered off after a high shoulder. I like physical games but I felt that New Zealand were out to hurt them at times which isn't in the spirit of the game. 

Referees seem afraid to make close calls against the all blacks. The tantrums they have when something doesn't go their way would probably result in a top referee being demoted.

[Baldy]

Another All Blacks win another whining about refereeing by non-AB fans.  That's OK.  I hear the same thing with my NFL's Patriots.  If you can't beat them, complain about the refereeing.  Definitely a hard tackling game from both sides. 

Not surprise the Wallabies pulled out a victory.  I'm not a die hard rugby fan but enough of a fan to know that the Wallabies are not to be taken lightly.  The Springboxs on the other hand....wow.  Right now, even Canada might stand a chance against the current boxs.  Argentina is not in great form either however credit to Scotland.  On their current form, it's not inconceivable that England surpasses NZ's consecutive win streak. 

[David88]

1 hour ago, Baldy said:

Another All Blacks win another whining about refereeing by non-AB fans.  That's OK.  I hear the same thing with my NFL's Patriots.  If you can't beat them, complain about the refereeing.  Definitely a hard tackling game from both sides. 

Not surprise the Wallabies pulled out a victory.  I'm not a die hard rugby fan but enough of a fan to know that the Wallabies are not to be taken lightly.  The Springboxs on the other hand....wow.  Right now, even Canada might stand a chance against the current boxs.  Argentina is not in great form either however credit to Scotland.  On their current form, it's not inconceivable that England surpasses NZ's consecutive win streak. 

New Zealand are the first to whine about a referee when they lose. Wayne Barnes 2007 quarter final?

I'm just a bit tired of seeing New Zealand get the rub of the green over other sides. They undoubtably play great rugby but I thought yesterday if Cane had played for a different team he would have seen a red. 

[Ken Gargett]

the reason we don't think the blicks bitch as much as some other teams/fans is because they win so much they don't need to. but yes, they have just as bad a record as anyone. we all whinge about refs. part of sport.

but the all blacks do seem to have favoured nation status. mccaw and fitzpatrick (who away from the field is one of the most decent blokes you could ever hope to meet) got away with things very few others managed. for us, gregan probably pushed the boundaries more than most. clive woodward and jonny probably created an atmosphere which allowed them to push the envelope. good luck to you if you can get away with it, though it frustrates the hell out of opposition fans - just think of sir alex and what he got away with for manspew (if you go to league, i've no doubt cameron smith manages to get away with things others would not, though thumbs up for that as he is a great qlder).

and, not that i really care, at the risk of offending kiwis, their fans are undoubtedly the most appalling and despicable from any rugby nation. it would be a rare and lucky fan from any other nation who has gone to a game in nz and not been abused and spat at. i've been to games in the majority of leading rugby nations and there is a mile of daylight (if there is such a thing) between nz fans and every other nation. most of them should be in jail - although i guess one could argue living in nz is the same thing. when a kiwi international coach says he is embarrassed by kiwi fans then you know that there is something wrong. sadly, i can see a time in the near future where the grounds will have to have segregated areas fenced off, like soccer crowds, to prevent violence and abuse. if i had young kids, i would happily take them to rugby anywhere in the world, except nz. would not take young kids to a rugby game in nz at the point of a gun.

[gweilgi]

9 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

 

and, not that i really care, at the risk of offending kiwis, their fans are undoubtedly the most appalling and despicable from any rugby nation. it would be a rare and lucky fan from any other nation who has gone to a game in nz and not been abused and spat at. i've been to games in the majority of leading rugby nations and there is a mile of daylight (if there is such a thing) between nz fans and every other nation. most of them should be in jail - although i guess one could argue living in nz is the same thing. when a kiwi international coach says he is embarrassed by kiwi fans then you know that there is something wrong. sadly, i can see a time in the near future where the grounds will have to have segregated areas fenced off, like soccer crowds, to prevent violence and abuse. if i had young kids, i would happily take them to rugby anywhere in the world, except nz. would not take young kids to a rugby game in nz at the point of a gun.

Look at it this way: in most other countries, there are a number of sports vying for dominance and fans' loyalty.  In NZ, there's a bit of Cricket and a bit of League, but no real competition to Union.  This means that the violent and abusive segment of the population, the chauvinist Neanderthals with grog in their heads and rage in their bellies and a very direct emotional tribalism, are not being siphoned off or diluted into other sports.  English lager louts or French hooligans have been seduced by soccer -- which is not an option in Middle Earth, so every Union match there will get a much bigger share of aggressive tribalist arseholes.  

 

 

 

[JohnS]

On ‎20‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:36 AM, JohnS said:

Personally, I will be finding inventive way(s) to view the Australia-Ireland game next week as it's not on free-to-air TV. I still marginally back the Irish to win...we'll see. The Wallabies can't commit that many errors and not pay against the better teams.

Thankfully, SBS has come to the rescue again and will broadcast the game from 4.15 (Australian Eastern Daylight-Saving Time) on Sunday Morning, the 27th.

[Ken Gargett]

2 hours ago, JohnS said:

Thankfully, SBS has come to the rescue again and will broadcast the game from 4.15 (Australian Eastern Daylight-Saving Time) on Sunday Morning, the 27th.

thanks john. amazing rugby has come to this.

[JohnS]

3 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

thanks john. amazing rugby has come to this.

Yes, quite incredible really. But we are talking about the ARU (Australian Rugby Union)

[JohnS]

So the grand slam dream is over, but realistically it wasn't going to happen, and as a purist, I quite like the mid-80's Australian Rugby team having enviable records in 1984 on their UK tour and 1986 on their New Zealand tour...aah, glory days!

And so Ireland completed a well-deserved trifecta of beating southern hemisphere teams in the last six months. Ok, against South Africa currently that doesn't mean much, but to beat New Zealand and Australia this month is praiseworthy, especially with so many injuries this game. The Wallabies, whilst I applaud their commitment to 'running rugby' and entertaining play, still were too ill-disciplined in this match to seriously compete with the likes of England or New Zealand.  A 13-3 penalty count, 10 handling errors to 2 and 6 kicks (yes 6 kicks) to 20 in this match will mean that they will get beaten by a minimum of 20 points against England next week if they repeat trying to score length of the field tries from deep in their quarter. Sure, it worked once in the second half, but the next time they tried it didn't. The Wallabies tried to play 'running rugby' against England in Australia this year and lost all three test matches, hopefully they learn to control the ball better next week and are competitive.

Kudos to Ireland though to hold on after the Wallabies came back from 17-0 down to lead in the second half and win 27-24. I also watched New Zealand beat France 24-19 in Paris this morning. The difference in class is self-evident, you have to acknowledge the brilliant All Black defence in their own half, especially as France had a lot of possession and territory in the second half. Wales beating South Africa 27-14 simply cements how far they have fallen in World Rugby in my view, and although Argentina were down 16-14 early in the second half, England controlled that game to win 27-14, with Owen Farrell uncharacteristically missing three penalty attempts. I sincerely hope the Aussies upset England next week, but I don't see it (happening).

[David88]

Well there were a few surprises for me this weekend. I thought Australia would be too much for Ireland and I was shocked to see South Africa lose to Wales. Some serious changes need to be made by South Africa as they definitely have the players available to compete but this year has been a disaster for them. 

England showed good control to get through 75 minutes a man down. The ref was poor in my opinion and his lack of control lead to an excessive amount of cards. How often do we see two top sides playing 13 v 13 at the end? 

[hedgeybaby]

We have the same situation with cricket here. The ECB has been happy to take the squillions from Sky, claiming they use it to grow the game but but without it being on terrestrial television, new fans will have little chance of discovering the game.