NewAir 280 Coolers

[PigFish]

45 minutes ago, ncardw said:

Did you come up with anything as far as a kit @PigFish ?

I was fishing for information on this thread, to be totally honest with you. I had a preconceived notion about those building these cooler projects and I wanted my suspicions confirmed. No, the point was not a mind f***... What I was after was some honest input from those building these humidors what value they would put on one that really worked. Bear in mind please, that 'really work' is my definition of working, not considering what others define as working.

With that, and with my knowledge of the current state of what products cost me to procure and produce, there would be no money in me advancing a kit here, not yet anyway. It is not that I have given up on the idea completely, but the development of this type of product would be for a prospective customer only. I have no real interest in developing this for myself.

With that in mind, there is no ancillary motivation beyond that of a commercial venture. My interest in this particular product is wholly profit driven and therefore not personal first and them market driven second. From the answers that I have received, it appears that the majority of folks take this route primarily (my assessment) due to the fact that they are confident that they will be happy with the results at an extremely low entry point.

My systems are far more complex than a sack of beads in a poorly controlled TE cooler. Frankly, I cannot compete with those satisfied with the results that they already achieve at this level of control at the current price point; paying for the cooler and 5 pounds of cat litter. That was the answer that I was searching for. I thought that if there was sufficient interest in a kit at approximately the $1000.00 level, then I at least had a fighting chance of making a kit to satisfy that market. With comments of, and I am paraphrasing, "I am willing to part with $300..." and such, where the wholesale cost of parts and raw materials would not even be covered, I have to consider this a 'no win' situation for me. It makes far more sense for me to pursue finding a way to make a kit that I produce currently in a less expensive state than it does to pursue this venture. In my opinion the people building these (a generalization) are prepared to deal with their shortcomings based on the low entry point, and have no real greater interest in developing a more sophisticated, better working product for a cost that would at least give me a fair chance to pay me back for my time and parts.

I have to pick and choose my battles. I have so many concepts floating out there, touch screen modular walk-in control systems, 140 and larger wine cooler projects etc.... that those have to take priority over this idea.

I had thought that 1K plus the cooler for a real fully controlled humidor, one that might cost you 4K from Bob would be a real bargain. But it appears to me that those pursuing this level of product don't want to spend that kind of money on this size project. I did not know until I asked.

I am still kicking around some ideas. I have a very flexible PLC product that i can program to do just about anything in a humidor. If I coupled this with a sensor with a display, and had the customer use a laptop to change the settings, I might be able to pull this off for less.

A simple example of the problem is this... That sensor is likely to cost me about $125.00 or more. I cannot sink that kind of money into really good parts where one component costs this much... There are too many parts left out there to make... I need  to trim the cost of parts, and therefore some of the quality is going to have to go with it to make a more attractive price point.

My guess, regardless of what people have posted, is that if I could prove a system like this would work at a cost of say $600 plus the cooler, a lot of folks would buy them just to be done with the problems, the beads and all the crap that they are forced to deal with now. Frankly, I need to make more than say $200 a kit to interest me. The development time alone will cost me thousands... I just don't see the numbers working today. I know what it takes to make a working humidor... and with some of the fans, enclosures, plastics and raw materials, machine time, CAD time, sensors, controllers etc... it is a loser!

I have a guy that I am working with to see if the concept of a 'stripper' kit, where the customer makes a lot more of the finished parts, and I pull some of the components that make the system more robust (and more expensive) out of an existing kit to save some money will work. I am willing to try almost anything.... It is my time and I own the company! If I lose my ass, it won't be the first time... -LOL

Thanks for asking. -Ray

[cris77]

@PigFish just an idea...create a gofundme page so people here place a nominal amount for the development of this project. Obviously the amount would provide the person an opportunity to buy the KIT at a discount. There is definitely an interest from people as wineadoors seem to be a fairly popular route for many BOTL.

I can appreciate R&D costs and if you can raise the required funds through crowd sourcing to lessen the "sting" and you end up making a marketable product then it might be worth it doing it that way.

But to answer the question of cost a breakdown then (AUD$):

Wine cooler = $180 to $450 depending of brand

Passive humidification =$70 plus shipping from USA($30)

Active humidification = $200 for a cigar oasis 

Hygrometers = $10 each

Data logger = from $50 to $1000.

this is not counting cedar trays, etc

So on average the cost of this build would be around $580 AUD.

 

Just my 5 cents

 

[PigFish]

12 hours ago, cris77 said:

@PigFish just an idea...create a gofundme page so people here place a nominal amount for the development of this project. Obviously the amount would provide the person an opportunity to buy the KIT at a discount. There is definitely an interest from people as wineadoors seem to be a fairly popular route for many BOTL.

I can appreciate R&D costs and if you can raise the required funds through crowd sourcing to lessen the "sting" and you end up making a marketable product then it might be worth it doing it that way.

But to answer the question of cost a breakdown then (AUD$):

Wine cooler = $180 to $450 depending of brand

Passive humidification =$70 plus shipping from USA($30)

Active humidification = $200 for a cigar oasis 

Hygrometers = $10 each

Data logger = from $50 to $1000.

this is not counting cedar trays, etc

So on average the cost of this build would be around $580 AUD.

 

Just my 5 cents

 

Thanks for the input mate.

It is not the R&D hard money costs. I have everything, I mean everything in the shop to make a half-dozen of these projects at just about any time. The problem, as I stated above, is is worth my time to develop?

I have considered your approach in a different form.

I have considered making say 3 kits, selling them literally for my cost to people who are dedicated to tinker and develop them with me... Here is the problem. Most are not 'really' dedicated to a project like this. If the price is right, they will buy it and if they figure it works they will be happy and email me when something in not 'just right.' I know how this will work out already. I am a humidor zealot, and most other folks just want to store cigars...! Ultimately I will just develop this on my own, while the people who bought them contribute little and complain a lot... -LOL

Cigar storage is personal. I want a working humidor, not a cedar tray! I am on a completely different plane than most cigar smokers outside of my customer base. Most people want something wood, they want a 'doll house' for cigars. Look at humidor reviews on YouTube...! Not me... I am a guy attempting to find conditions to prove my humidors "work" day in and day out. The process is totally different for people like me. Therefore the product is totally different.

I park 10K worth of cigars in a wine cooler humidor and see if it still works at 100F ambient.... That is what I do. I don't line up my bands and brands an put them in little wooden cubby holes. It is just a totally different mindset.

What you have written is what people do now. They don't need me for that. With that, they get a humidor that does not work (MHO). Now if they think it works that is just great. We have come full circle. The people who sell these coolers have set up a site with plenty of nonsense, totally erroneous information about how to make one of their coolers into a humidor. I have read it... I don't think there is a true statement on the site, short of "add to cart."... The community does not need another location for data like that... MHO.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Canoli]

I know this thread is a little old but after reading it in full i am a little offended at the thought that people really think that the kits your offering should be priced at 100/200 or even 400 bucks USD. I am not sure how things are on your end of the world but for me you cannot get much of anything for 500 bucks these days especially a kit that has been mastered over years of research to maintain the perfect conditions for 2k-10k worth of cigars and not to mention your time acquiring them and making sure they are kept at the conditions you want them at . If you really think the most you would pay to insure that your investment is safe is 100 or 200 bucks you are just kidding your self. Thats as crazy as somebody buying a Bently and saying they cannot afford to put supreme gas when you fill up. To me what pigfish is offering is an insurance policy and for it to work as he has this thing setup to do its worth an easy 750 bucks regardless of what his cost is to make the kits.  Thats my 2 cents for what its worth. 

Great job Piggy on what your trying to do and hope to get my hands on one of these kits soon.

- Canoli

[PigFish]

... thanks for the input mate! -Piggy

[Willy D]

On 10/3/2016 at 2:46 PM, PigFish said:

Hello my friends.

I understand many of you build humidors on this platform. It would appear (to me at least) that what these people sell as a working humidor does not actually work. I hate to be so blunt, but there you have it! It is also the source of the most common questions that I am asked about in correspondence. I just received yet another one this AM...

I know many of you are happy with your products and purchase of these, so for you simply ignore what I am going to ask. Operation of a humidor is in the eye of the beholder, I get that.

I am curious however. Many of you know that I convert wine coolers to humidors as a boutique business. And these, working or not are very popular.

So if I told you to trash the beads and all the guesswork in converting one of these, what would it be worth to you to get a project that actually worked?

Yes, this is a money question.

You see, I have never thought of these as a viable humidor, but honestly I have never bothered to try and convert one. Development costs me time and money and neither in my case are unlimited. If I sold a kit for one of these, one that really worked that I could prove within a reasonable tolerance, would any of you be interested in buying it?

And lastly, what would it be worth?

There is no right or wrong answer. I believe that I can develop this into a platform that can work within the realm of what performance a TE cooler can deliver. Will it work in my shop at 90F? No way, well, I doubt it. But will it work at ambients below 80F? Maybe, maybe high 70's... I don't know.

But the parts and the system cost money. And my development time and the cost of the materials including the cooler, something that I have no real interest in building for myself are real.

So what say you?

Thanks for helping me out... and don't be embarrassed to post. If it working is only worth $100.00 put it down. I want to know. If the concuss is that I can make money at it and get you guys that are log jammed happy it might be worth it for me to take the project on.

Cheers! -Piggy

Yes I know this is an old thread. 🤫

I would pay whatever you asked. I actually emailed you recently; not sure if you saw. I would love to discuss the specifics of the build and exact numbers if you find the time.

[PigFish]

I have seen your email my friend and have you on my list. Been very busy and traveling a lot for work. I will try to respond to you this week. Cheers. -R