The Noob Thread I Never Read.. On Cuban Cigars..

[Ethernut]

Here's the advice I never received when I started this journey over 10 years ago... Ready?  

On Buying Your Cigars 

1. "There really is no cigar better than the other." There, I said it. Ok, Ok, let me bring some clarity now that the natives are restless and beating on my door with pitchforks and shovels. There are 2 things happening in Cigars and really only two things. Marketing and Tobacco. Truth is (IMHO) that it's nearly impossible to get the exact. same. leaf. year after year. A CoRo box *will* be different in different times of the year due to the Tobacco available. To say Cohiba (as an example of a flag-ship) is the gold standard is a difficult statement frankly. I would say a truer statement might be that Cohiba "attempts" to be the gold standard (and in many cases perhaps has dibs on some of the better leaf catering to their profile but absolutely not always). You know where the best cigars in the world are? Nestled / hidden within regular boxes. Believe it. 

2. No one can tell you what Cigar you like. Sorry but it's true. Reviews are subjective at best, careful of that trap! My most memorable cigars (as a ratio) haven't been Cohiba. One of my least memorable cigars was a Cohiba Esplenditos (most likely due to the expense versus perceived value of experience returned). My most memorable cigars for the profile *I* prefer have been unabashedly Diplomaticos and Bolivar. Each brand (Marca) "attempts" to hit a certain profile, best they can with the leaf available to them. Frankly that's the best they can do. There are many factories getting different Volado, Ligero and Seco tobacco and it's up to the blenders to make the most of what they get that month or year. That leaf is then broken up and separated to give to the rollers. Heck, it's even hard to match a factory with specific quality month after month. Which is why we focus on Factory, Month, Year most often.

It's all about probability... We're making a value decision about every thing we do, especially with purchases. We make a purchase because we've, for the most part, made the value decision that the money we'll trade for an item would provide some return equivalent or better than the money we exchanged for it. For us here at FOH, it's Cigars. Anyone want to buy a box of crappy cigars for $200? No? Why not? Because it doesn't make sense to spend significant money for such a poor return. Guess what, you *will*, no matter what you do, buy cigars you're not impressed with. ..and age may not fix it.. To top that off, your preferences will change and thus what you like this decade may not be the same the next. The REAL question for you is, "How do I increase my probably of quality every time I trade my hard-earned money for a Cigar?" In a sense, buying cigars is kinda like gambling (just a little) especially when you buy from vendors that don't give two rips about you, your experience or know what you like (and that's *real* gambling y'all). When you're gambling, then the questions you HAVE to ask, that is, if you want to win, is this, "How to I ensure the house doesn't always win? How do I get the advantage?" More on that below -

Ever wonder why one cigar in a box will be a cracker and another won't? Here's the answer (click the video), the cigars in your box are not necessarily from the exact same tobacco sorting. Watch the lady sort the cigars. Here's a brief version of what has happened up to that point. The factory received a ton of leaf, it is split up by type (Volado, Ligero and Seco) and given to the rollers to take that crap-ton of leaf and make the box-pressed body of the cigar which includes a predetermined ratio of the 3 leaves (or Primings) of the filler and binders. They are sent to another group and tested for draw during the roughly 30 minute box pressing (or... not tested at all for draw. I've seen literal draw machine lady's asleep at the draw machines - giving zero sh**s). The box press is turned once to reduce the box press pattern during that timeframe. That bunch still needs a wrapper and those wrappers are applied to the bunched cigars by the rollers. Once rolled, they are sent to a sorter to match the wrapper color's so the box you receive has cigars that all look the same. Like a shiny tin of sardines.. Watch the lady and see how it's done, see her take a bunch of cigars full of tobacco from likely the same bunch and separate them in to 68, count'em, 68 different color shades. This is exactly why some in a box are crackers and some are not. Straight up, your box of Cigars are most likely not from the same run/seam of tobacco. They will vary. Nothing you can do about that. Welcome to the mysterious world of Cuban Habano's!

 

Getting the advantage... (from above) If you're new to this, my very best advice to you is this. Buy a couple samplers. Buy the cigars from Robs Rotation. Let them rest and be objective. Take _great_ notes while smoking. Once you develop your favorite profile then read how Rob describes the profiles on the 24:24's. Ignore the Marca's (Brands) completely (as that's marketing drawing you in) and to some extent the Vitola's (Size) and focus on the flavor profile. When you find the profiles you like, BUY *THAT* BOX.  This is more if a surgeons approach than a "pray and spray" (dollars) approach. Once you learn to recognize the profiles you like and ignore the Marca's and Vitola's you're increasing your probability of success. 

FOH has something unique. Cigar Sherpa, Rob (El Plez) to help us navigate the ever changing waters of "who received the best leaf". It's that experience to draw on and ignore nearly everything else. Your journey will be less expensive, and less fraught with poor experiences. Remember, when you buy a cigar, it's literally money you're going to set on fire. Increase your probability of success buy riding the coat tails of identified consistency. Robs team profiles the cigars for you for free then sells you his very best boxes at sale prices in a 24:24. What, wait, seriously? What kind of crazy value is that?!?! No wonder FOH has been so successful. Capitalistic altruism at its finest! 

Smoking your Cigars....

Keep the relative Humidity between 60% and 65%. Rob likes low to mid 60's RH for the Cigars he's smoking in the near-term and higher for Cigars that he's aging. His Online Humidor is at 64% humidity and happens to be where he keeps many of his Cigars. My Humidor is at 60% RH these days, that's where I want it. Smoking experience elevated 100%.

Smoke smart. Many of the cigars that disappointed me in the early years were *very* likely so because I was smoking them wrong.. You might be doing it wrong.. The key to getting the most from the Cigar is to smoke slooooooowly. Only drag once per puff cycle, and drag slowly (to minimize heating up the cigar). Play a game where you puff just once before the cigar is about to hit the point of no return of extinguishing itself. There's an art to this, learn the rhythm. The mistakes noobs make is they puff puff puff PUFF like we see in the movies and heat the tobacco up so much that the hot smoke compounds on itself quickly within the body of the cigar making the cigar last perhaps to the end of the first third before it goes to ammonia. For me, once it hits ammonia, I'm out. Out it goes and I'm a little pissed because frankly I want to nub every cigar to get the full value from it, if I only get to the end of the first third before it goes to mierda, I only enjoyed 1/3rd of its potential value. From time to time if your cigar starts to get a little mean, blow through it to expel (purge) hot smoke. This helps me often once I've over puffed to help the cigar settle down. I do a long breath through the cigar and let it sit to cool down for a minute or two. It's a neat trick and has helped my experience tremendously.  

On Aging your Cigars..

...and since I've been shooting you straight, how 'bout another #TorpedoOfTruth in rapid fire Gatling Gun fashion. Ready? Brace yourself...

1. Aging may not fix your crappy cigar... [explosion] BOOM!
2. Aging isn't always better [next explosion] BOOM BOOOM! ("...oh gawd the humanity! please make it stop!")
3. Don't get sucked into thinking that aged, somehow, is the holy grail. (but it can be)
4. Buying Vintage Stock does not guarantee an exceptional experience.
5. An older cigar may actually _lose_ some of what made it special and become one dimensional. See ElPresidente's example of this here: 
6. A young cigar may be at its peak inside of 3 years and a crappy cigar may never peak, or, rather, peak to your satisfaction.

 

The only way for me to really explain the #TorpedosOfTruth skewered above is using a whiskey age curve as that's how I picture it in my head. See below, I created this just fer ya! look at the green line. The green line represents maturity and as whiskey ages it peaks and enters a range of where the master distiller intends for the profile he is creating. Many people think that the more age something has, the better it is, and that is dead-nuts wrong. The Taste vector on the left is translated as "Your Experience" (or Net Complexity) and vector at the bottom is translated as "Aging time". Now, here's the kicker for whiskey, especially bourbon is considered fully matured (the point where vanillas and caramels begin to fully develop) between 6 and 12 years. For many master distillers thats the "sweet spot". Consider that sweet spot range below at the peak as that span of time, 6-12 years. Beyond 12 years some flavors, yes disireable flavors (as the barrel does not discrimiate) will wane and other flavors like heavy oak tannin/acrid profiles will emerge. Too much time in the barrel will result in whiskey that can be very tannin laced, uncomplex, and quite undesireable. 

 

 

Cigars are no different. There is a "sweet spot" where they're at their best and over time they will lose certain characteristics then gain others. Cream if you will is one of the more common profiles that tends to build with age, but at the expense of other subtile profiles thus reducing the net complexity of the smoking experience. The vector of taste versus time does not universally look like this below.. Once folks understand this, the better their experience will be and the less expensive their journey will be. My advice remains the same, listen to folks that KNOW cigars.. If they are saying the Vintage Stock is good, buy it, if not, don't. I have 2001 ERDM Choix that has disappointed me every time I've had one. and I have 03 Des Dieux that are amazing but starting to lose some of their cedar profile that I loved about them when I purchased them. 

 

 

See point #2 at the very top of this post. No one can tell you what you like. The onus is on _you_ to profile your cigars as they age, find the peak and enjoy them during that time. This is the real trick of being an amazing cigar herder. Yes, you're a herder, you have a herd of stock that'll be mature at different times. Be a good herder, not a bad herder. ?

 

Buying Aged Stock versus Aging Your Own

Since you're still a noob you're going to see a ton of reviews from guys with 10 plus year old cigars? Theres only two ways that happens. 

1. They bought/bartered them with age
2. They aged them themselves

Looking back, and if I had it to do over, I probably wouldn't spend much extra to buy Vintage Stock (aged beyond 5 years). Cuba releases stock from their Vintage Program each year and it's simply stock they've set aside for 5 years. As far as I can tell (please please please someone correct me if I'm wrong), there isn't a ton of thought put into the stock they set aside. It isn't necessarily _always_ _bankably_ the very best version of that cigar from that time period. The Vintage Stock can be amazing and it can be disappointing. I've personally had it go both ways.

...here's what the smart money (the folks that actually need their money) do and here's the advice I'm going to offer... Age your own. You'll save between 20-40% per cigar to do so. At minimum get a stable humidor for Temp and RH and buy 2-3 times more Cigars than you can smoke over the course of a couple years and within 3 years, BOOM! you have aged stock. I know, I know.... Math. Is. Hard.. However, the persistence of time always wins (...aint that the truism of the day...) and you WILL have aged stock too that a new crop of noob's drool over.

Now I take that back if you're:

1. Wealthy enough that dropping between $10-20,000 per year on cigars is no big deal to you. Heck, buy the aged stock. It's pocket change baby!
2. Not thinking you're going to be in the hobby for the long haul and are just curious what all the hoopla is about. By all means, buy a Vintage Box, checkout a Vintage Sampler (sometimes they appear) or better yet, after you've hung around for a while you'll find some gracious members that will be more than happy to share some aged stock with you. You wouldn't believe how many folks are willing to help out good folk!

 

On "The Sick Period" (Inspired by an FOH chat with @Isaac) (added on 6-7-17)

The sick period - a mythological period of time where a cigar, during its aging cycle, enters an timeframe where it is unpleasant to smoke. The sick period can range from X time to Y time depending on who you speak to and after the sick period is over the cigar is once again smokeable (to some degree ranging from, good-to-go to a-freakingmazing)

 

 

Preface: this is an opinion, namely, mine. 

The sick period is mostly BS and a mind-trick we play on ourselves. There is much fairy and unicorn farts in the culinary world. Culinary world? Just how does that apply here? It's only the world of putting high-end, mostly expensive things in our mouths for the purpose of tasting them (innuendo fully intended here). We buy expensive cigars and set them on fire to taste/experience them. Much is made on essence of safflower, pancakes, maple syrup, and pencil shaving types of ridiculous flavors. (Although I have personally have tasted pancakes ..and I'm kinda a nerd) Straight up, the sick period is not something I've truly experienced in my 20 years of cigar smoking. I'll tell you what I _have_ experienced, and that's sh***y tobacco. No amount of aging is gonna fix yer sh***y tobacco. Well, why is your tobacco sh***y? Because there's something wrong with it, either, it's poor leaf, fermented wrong, stored wrong, poorly blended and the list goes on. What's the most likely reason? Poor leaf/bad blend/bad ferment in my experience. Aging isn't gonna make chicken salad out of chicken crap (as I shared above). Get this concept, AGING CHANGES ALL THINGS. In cigars it will attenuate certain flavor profiles and expose others. This can work out in your favor and more often than not, after a long enough timeline you may have something smokeable (but you might not) I have a box of 2001 ERDM Choix Supreme from HSA's Vintage collection that I've never liked. Sick for 16 years? Nope. Crappy tobaccy? Yep. Straight up. In contrast I've had cigars made that very same year be revelatory and needed zero age. I prefer that and so do you.

 

Jedi mind tricks... I think often because gents spent a bunch on the sticks, they want them to perform, to be the Belle of the Ball, to be a diamond in the rough and perhaps make a few jealous at their cigar aging skills... (The value equation) The sick period narrative provides an excuse to keep them in our humidor a long dang time in "hope" that one day the pumpkin will turn into a carriage and the maid will become a princess. ...now that I've written this very cathartic piece, I think I'll march right down to the humi and throw that damned ERDM box in the trash with shiny vintage sticker and all! "Off with yer head!"

 

On Farm Roll's / Custom Rolls

 

The conversation goes like this (figuratively in your mind..)

[Handsome Stranger] "Psst!" [Emerging from the dark alley of the internet]

[Handsome Stranger] "Hey man, [looks left and right to ensure privacy] have you ever smoked custom rolls? Wanna buy a few?"

 

Yeah, that's how we all get sucked into custom roll chasing.. As Morpheus said in The Matrix, "Were you looking at me or were you looking at the lady in the red dress?" Custom rolls are somehow the exact same thing or better than your favorite brand but simply unbanded. You'll want them because you cant get them very easily. Isn't that true with most things? Oh yes they're huge on the secondary market. Sticks costing $5 in Havana being sold for $15-20 per stick and the secondary market is happy to take your money... and guess what? They're rolled by some Cuban roller named XXXXX who is a level 9, struck out on his/her own now rolling better cigars than all of Havana from the safety of their little Casa de Tobacco generally within a Hotel in Havana.

 

Here's the deal. Custom rolls can be awesome. Those of us who have had plenty have had them go both ways. They can be awesome and they can be plugged or utterly boring little pieces of mierda.. You have to kind of know where they came from and if you're buying them in Havana you have fairly low risk as long as the Roller works for a hotel or Casa de Tobacco. The ones guys offer you on the street that have a "connection" are not worth your time. Keep in mind any cigar you buy in Cuba *is* technically a cuban cigar. But that doesn’t mean it's good. Customs can be awesome because they are different also. Don't expect a Custom Robusto to taste like a CoRo (but they might). The issues rollers have with customs is they are getting in most cases the bottom pick of the litter with Tobacco through their normal purchasing channels. Certain factories that roll prestigious brands (Marcas) get the first dibs. Do Custom Rollers have side/back channels? Of course they do! But they probably wont tell you. For the most part the Custom Roller wants to roll a solid cigar, good enough that you'll remember them, enjoy them and tell your friends about them. When in Cuba get a bunch or two, let them rest for 3-6 months as they will be very wet/green and give them a go. You'll likely be surprised.

 

Farm Rolls... Farm Rolls are Custom Rolls that are bought on a Tobacco Farm (Finca). I've had Farm Rolls, like custom rolls, be un-friggenbelieveable and I've had them be a let down. Depends on the Farm and leaf available to them. Not every roller at a finca knows what they're doing but it's a little slice of awesome to have a "freshie" right off the farm. I wont beguile you that experience, heck I encourage it. Know that it's likely due to the wetness/freshness of the cigar that it wont rock your world right then and there. Enjoy a farm roll in the moment. That's important. Likely that the experience you're having at the farm linked to that cigar will make the cigar perform well for you. But! Buy a few more. Take them home, drop them in the Humidor 3-6 months and then see what you've got. Like custom rolls, you might be surprised (and you might not). Enjoy!   

Q&A from (this thread)

Q "I am though, a little confused. If one shouldn't chase a marca or vitola, what is there left? And when I should buy *that box* how do I get more of *that box* when a) it is made up of many different roller's cigars, each with a unique, human-hand selected bunch of leaves that may have come from different farms or microclimates? And b ) I already have that box, therefore by logic, no more exist? Each box will be different even from the same Factory code and month"

A "This is a GREAT question and one I will lend more detail to. The *very* short answer is this. (for those that don't know) Marca is the brand and Vitola is the size/length/ring gauge. Some folks buy a "brand" and I think that's probably the strongest draw to the buying decision and others like Phat and Phallic or Long and Skinny cigars and that sways the buying decision. My approach is more of an agnostic one. I'll smoke any cigar as long as it's good, I *prefer* sub 42 ring cigars so my internal value scoring system will give higher points to that size. 

Now, to get closer to answering your question which is, essentially, "How do I know when to pull the trigger with all of the variables?" I've been crafting a post that I wanted to call "Robs Super Secret (not so secret) Code for the 24:24's." Rob describes the predominant and nuanced flavors in a cigar. Once a person has been through the sampler and taken great notes as to the flavors they sense, a pattern of preference will emerge. Not everyone can detect the same thing in a cigar from a nuanced flavor perspective but most can detect the predominant flavors. They can also detect the strength of the cigar. When Rob says "Montecristo cream" he's saying it's a cream bomb. Or if he described the primary flavors as "earthy leathery mongrel", it's typically a full strength cigar that may be a little less composed than many like, but some do like that. It's important to know what primary flavors and characteristics you like and see how he describes the cigars then shoot for the primary flavors you like and less so the brand or size. 

As for how one ensures you get an entire box of exactly what you wanted, truly you cant. About the best we can do is look at the factory/month/year and when Robs team profiles cigars from that timeframe we can be more certain that we've increased our probability of success beyond chance. The factories will get a huge shipment of, not random leaf, but leaf from certain farms so there are common threads of leaf that run through the cigars for that run of time."

_____________________________________

I'll update this post as things come to me. I welcome information I should add and will add it. These, of course are my opinions and there are A LOT of opinions. I hope this is just a little bit of light in the fog.. I'm not aware of too many things, but I know what I know (if you know what I mean)...

_____________________________________

 

[NSXCIGAR]

I was actually just thinking about how right you are about this post:

On 9/10/2016 at 6:19 PM, Ethernut said:

Keep in mind, (and I know you have it on speed dial), Du Prince means nothing. HDM means nothing, what means everything is the tobacco in *that* run of cigars. 

Top of mind: 

                  Reply to Newbie a bit overwhelmed... breakdown appreciated!               

At any time, any cigar might be the best cigar coming out of Cuba. There is no cigar or brand that is consistently at the top or better than any other cigar. I've smoked crap from every marca at one time or another. Some cigars have been in the gutter for years, and then--boom--back from the dead (Punch Punch, RyJ Churchill most recently).

Forums like this are the best way to insure what you're buying is smoking well at the time and reducing one's chances of buying a cigar that's in the doldrums as many frequently are.

[Ethernut]

Well said @NSXCIGAR!

[lafabrica]

much of this is great info - we all purchase cigars that we get pissed at.

and the final paragraph about smoking slowly/not overheating is true.  i've had conversations with fellow brothers and it has surprised me that some have never heard/thought of purging.

 

[Bohn007]

You neglected to mention to not only to puff slowly but to also purchase boxes slowly. ?

[Ethernut]

6 minutes ago, Bohn007 said:

You neglected to mention to not only to puff slowly but to also purchase boxes slowly. ?

You are so right! Two edged sword aside from the obvious comedic bent to your response. ?

On one hand, a person gets excited and buys a bunch that may or may not be good, or more specifically to their palate. On the oher hand, that person has blown a crap-ton of cash and has no idea how their experience will be.

 

[Slyclient]

This might be the best read I have ever had regarding cigars. Thank you sir!

[Ethernut]

10 minutes ago, Slyclient said:

This might be the best read I have ever had regarding cigars. Thank you sir!

Just scratching my own itch. I remember years ago, early 2000's I spent a bunch of time on the C.A. Forum. So much elitism and dogma, so little actionable information (read ? ?). FOH is awesome. Thankful for the journey and simply wanna pass the wisdom.

[zeavran1]

Great post. Very well thought out and a great read.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[vladdraq]

@Ethernutwhat about Cohibas famous third fermentation? Is this a myth? Aged cigars tend to have a very similar profile imho. Is ageing in fact a very slow third fermentation?

[Ethernut]

1 minute ago, vladdraq said:

@Ethernutwhat about Cohibas famous third fermentation? Is this a myth? Aged cigars tend to have a very similar profile imho. Is ageing in fact a very slow third fermentation?

I don't have an adequate answer for this, hopefully someone will jump in! I'll wait with bated breath!

[Waah954]

Good information.
I have a problem with taking a single puff cause my lungs are use to taking 2 puffs, one smaller and a larger.
I tried taking one single bigger draw however my lungs don't allow it.

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[scap99]

3 hours ago, Waah954 said:

Good information.
I have a problem with taking a single puff cause my lungs are use to taking 2 puffs, one smaller and a larger.
I tried taking one single bigger draw however my lungs don't allow it.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 You're inhaling your cigars?

 

[Waah954]

 You're inhaling your cigars?

 

Noooo just cant drag much smoke on the first puff.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

I guess that doesn't make much sense as for my lungs to do the work i need to inhale but its hard to explain.

[scap99]

Just now, Waah954 said:

Noooo just cant drag much smoke on the first puff.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
 

Might need to drop the humidity if they are too wet and not staying lit.

[Waah954]

Might need to drop the humidity if they are too wet and not staying lit.

Got it at 65-67 atm will give it a try with a lower setting.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk

[achiappetti]

This is great, thank you.   Smoking slow has vamped my smoking experience up to 11.  It brings a lot more consistency to the hobby in regards to enjoying the time and money you spend.  The advice to "buy slow" is greatly appreciated. I do not have tons of extra money to buy ever box I see,  so my choices need to be wise. It is hard not having a ton of CC's in the humi to choose from, but it will happen.   This advice puts me in a place of comfort.  FOH is truly a wonderful place where members are humble and genuine. Thanks to everyone on this site for being so awesome! 

[stogieluver]

3 hours ago, Waah954 said:

Got it at 65-67 atm will give it a try with a lower setting.

Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk
 

Try 60  and see if you notice a difference in taste and burn.  Depending on how much stock you have in your humi, it may take a while (weeks) for the sticks to fully acclimate and dry to that level internally, so be patient and I think you'll like the results.   

[agulerer]

10 minutes ago, stogieluver said:

Try 60  and see if you notice a difference in taste and burn.  Depending on how much stock you have in your humi, it may take a while (weeks) for the sticks to fully acclimate and dry to that level internally, so be patient and I think you'll like the results.   

Uffff. You are saying you will like it  But you don't write that what I will like? There will be more flavour? Intense flavour? Rounder flavour? Subtle flavour? Less flavour? What I will like other than burn at 60?????? Please write it! Everyone writes something without differences in flavour. 

[Ethernut]

 

Quote

 

On August 18, 2016 at 10:27 AM, Ethernut said:

. To say Cohiba is the gold standard is a difficult statement frankly. I would say a truer statement might be that Cohiba attempts to be the gold standard (and in many cases perhaps has dibs on the better leaf but not always). My most memorable cigars (as a ratio) haven't been Cohiba. One of my least memorable cigars was a Cohiba Esplenditos.

(from Ken)

you've probably gathered as many different opinions as there are members, which is half the fun of this place.

agree samplers a great start.

like most, i've had some disappointing cohibas but they are worth trying and can be brilliant. a box of Coros selected by our great mate, Hamlet, remains one of my most treasured. not only can he roll, he can spot a good cigar. they were/are stellar.

also, i'd offer a contrasting view of esplendido, though i've seen disappointing ones. when good, sublime. another great friend from Havana gave me a box years ago and it was/is (though very few remain) as good as you could wish for. in fact, Rob still reckons it should have gone to him (some people are never happy).

good luck with the search.

 

@Ken Gargett, I'm pulling this post from the "Newbie a bit overwhelmed... breakdown appreciated" thread as I believe my response to you is more relevant in this one.. Hope ya dont mind my friend!

I've had many great Cohiba's, and I don't want folks to misunderstand me on that point. In my current stock I have, I think, just about everything Cohiba offers save LE's and Behike. I *like*/*love* Cohiba. ...Since they are quite the tall blade of grass though, I'm simply using Cohiba as an example to illustrate a point. This post/approach is pragmatically geared toward Noobs and IMHO, the more expensive sticks early on, probably make less sense for the first purchases. When looking at Robs hit-list in his Sampler Contents thread Cohiba is only listed once out of (by my count) 70 different cigars. Cohiba Robusto is listed once in his current rotation which means (to me) that the examples he's getting right now represent something noteworthy. 

The Esplendito I bought that I had a bad experience with was in the days when I didn't have much money. Honestly I shouldn't have spent the money at that time. (That ever happen to anyone?) Buying that one stick hurt, but everyone was RAVING MAD about them and thus I wanted to know what the cacophony was about. To get in on the secret, to ride the coattails, to know what the best was. I remember the feeling, shortly after lighting the stick, expecting to experience nirvana and the disappointment. The remorse. The instant revelation that my value equation failed and I just set a bunch of money on fire that I really needed. Dumba** me. That hurt. That really kindled the fire that I couldn't trust the squawking seagull masses. Which created a new question which was, "Then who can I trust?"At this point I think I've nailed that equation about as well as possible. I simply create a relationship with a tobacconist, an expert vetted by years of honesty and consistency and I think we have the best in the world full throttle.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and you are correct, I simply want to give the new guys a better decision making equation than I had. That's my only goal. Could you imagine my original post on C.A.? Oh GOOD LORD the whiney d-bag, man-hissy freakout that would occur, I would be vilified, insulted, my family insulted, arson at my house, my tires slashed and would be run out on rails. ^^^^^all of these responses above this post^^^^^ is what makes FOH so amazing. Good mates having great conversation. Just. Love. This. Place.

-E  

[Ethernut]

12 minutes ago, agulerer said:

Uffff. You are saying you will like it  But you don't write that what I will like? There will be more flavour? Intense flavour? Rounder flavour? Subtle flavour? Less flavour? What I will like other than burn at 60?????? Please write it! Everyone writes something without differences in flavour. 

@stogieluver was simply trying to say that, those of us that have been doing this a while have eventually settled on much lower RH than when we started. You dont have to take your entire humi to 60. Dry box a few of them with a hygrometer. Stabilize the box on 60-62RH for a few weeks then test them. Keep in mind point 2 in the original post above. No one can tell you what you will like, I find personally that when the labels are just starting to get a little loose, they tend to smoke much better. From a flavor perspective having less moisture in the stick tends to reduce the "steam" and increases the tobacco when you draw and thus, at least for me, you get "more" of what that cigar has to offer.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, Ethernut said:

 

@Ken Gargett, I'm pulling this post from the "Newbie a bit overwhelmed... breakdown appreciated" thread as I believe my response to you is more relevant in this one.. Hope ya dont mind my friend!

I've had many great Cohiba's, and I don't want folks to misunderstand me on that point. In my current stock I have, I think, just about everything Cohiba offers save LE's and Behike. I *like*/*love* Cohiba. ...Since they are quite the tall blade of grass though, I'm simply using Cohiba as an example to illustrate a point. This post/approach is pragmatically geared toward Noobs and IMHO, the more expensive sticks early on, probably make less sense for the first purchases. When looking at Robs hit-list in his Sampler Contents thread Cohiba is only listed once out of (by my count) 70 different cigars. Cohiba Robusto is listed once in his current rotation which means (to me) that the examples he's getting right now represent something noteworthy. 

The Esplendito I bought that I had a bad experience with was in the days when I didn't have much money. Honestly I shouldn't have spent the money at that time. (That ever happen to anyone?) Buying that one stick hurt, but everyone was RAVING MAD about them and thus I wanted to know what the cacophony was about. To get in on the secret, to ride the coattails, to know what the best was. I remember the feeling, shortly after lighting the stick, expecting to experience nirvana and the disappointment. The remorse. The instant revelation that my value equation failed and I just set a bunch of money on fire that really needed. Dumba** me. That hurt. That really kindled the fire that I couldn't trust the squawking seagull masses. Which created a new question which was, "Then who can I trust?"At this point I think I've nailed that equation about as well as possible. I simply create a relationship with a tobacconist, an expert vetted by years of honesty and consistency and I think we have the best in the world full throttle.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and you are correct, I simply want to give the new guys a better decision making equation than I had. That's my only goal. Could you imagine my original post on C.A.? Oh GOOD LORD the whiney d-bag, man-hissy freakout that would occur, I would be vilified, insulted, my family insulted, arson at my house, my tires slashed and would be run out on rails. ^^^^^all of these responses above this post^^^^^ is what makes FOH so amazing. Good mates having great conversation. Just. Love. This. Place.

-E  

you are more than welcome to do with it as you wish.

i reckon if we put up a list of every cuban, there would be some on the forum who love them and some who do not. a good thing.

although perhaps not the monte opens and those dire Monte C LEs.

[PigFish]

Great post my friend. I have said many similar things over many years of posting about cigars.

I would add one thing if I wrote this. And it has to do with vitola. I do believe that some sizes of cigars, mostly ring gauge related, represent a cross section easiest for the average smoker to smoke from. This means that the average smoker, with the displacement of his puff can generally get the best or total combustion of the tobacco. It is just a pet theory of mine. Certain rings, for me thinner rings are easier to smoke and taste better (MHO).

Furthermore, as cigars get beyond a certain size, the blends get washed out, or diluted with too much filler, and therefore too much dead smoke verses 'live' (meaning more tasty smoke). Just another theory...

Lastly... In general, there is almost always enough of the correct mix of products (tobacco) for the smaller cigar. Smaller cigars I find to be more consistently good. I am not going to a comment about how they adhere to a 'profile' because I don't believe in it.

When you combine all the above, you get a higher likelihood of getting what you want when you view the cigar based on vitola verses by brand! I mentor people away from brand selection to a broader sense of vitola selection. That is just my spin!

Okay, I have to say it... Percent Moisture Content is reliant on two numbers; rH and temperature. PMC is the single biggest factor beyond how a cigar is made to how it tastes. The better you have control over PMC, the one thing in your power as humidor administrator, the better your smoking experiences will be overall.

Thanks for sharing your enlightening post... -the Pig

[TheMonk]

 

1 hour ago, PigFish said:

Great post my friend. I have said many similar things over many years of posting about cigars.

I would add one thing if I wrote this. And it has to do with vitola. I do believe that some sizes of cigars, mostly ring gauge related, represent a cross section easiest for the average smoker to smoke from. This means that the average smoker, with the displacement of his puff can generally get the best or total combustion of the tobacco. It is just a pet theory of mine. Certain rings, for me thinner rings are easier to smoke and taste better (MHO).

Furthermore, as cigars get beyond a certain size, the blends get washed out, or diluted with too much filler, and therefore too much dead smoke verses 'live' (meaning more tasty smoke). Just another theory...

Lastly... In general, there is almost always enough of the correct mix of products (tobacco) for the smaller cigar. Smaller cigars I find to be more consistently good. I am not going to a comment about how they adhere to a 'profile' because I don't believe in it.

 

That theory does make sense, but then how have we gotten so consistently good Lusis these past years, and superb cigars like the huge Mag56?

[joeypots]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

 

Okay, I have to say it... Percent Moisture Content is reliant on two numbers; rH and temperature. PMC is the single biggest factor beyond how a cigar is made to how it tastes. The better you have control over PMC, the one thing in your power as humidor administrator, the better your smoking experiences will be overall.

Thanks for sharing your enlightening post... -the Pig

Can't be said enough. One of my first boxes of Cuban cigars was MC#2. So moist they wouldn't stay lit. For a long time I confused age with proper humidity (PMC) because wet cigars are bitter. Someone told me to dry them out until the bands are loose enough to slide off of the cigar easily. Primitive but effective.