a case of Loose and Firm draws

[Lotusguy]

Count me into the group that prefers the "Cuban draw" over a loose draw. Much of what I smoke would be considered "too tight" by my NC smoking friends.

[CaptainQuintero]

Williamos, that level of right draws on recent production seems to appear to be a humidity issue rather than construction. Down right plugs are virtually gone, I haven't seen or heard of one for years. Firm draws can usually be sorted out by lowering your Rh near to 60% and/or dry boxing.

Are your cigars squishy to the feel or crispy?

[vladdraq]

hei, i was thinking about something crazy. there is such a think "drawpoker' basically a needle and you try to put a hole in plugged cigar, we should invent a "drawblocker" a piece of metal you squeeze in the cigar and make it tighter  or a "cigar squeezer" you put your loose cigar in a mould apply some vacuum and hei! you have a perfect draw. The bad thing would be you ca get from an Esplendido a Siglo 1.

[PigFish]

31 minutes ago, Lotusguy said:

Count me into the group that prefers the "Cuban draw" over a loose draw. Much of what I smoke would be considered "too tight" by my NC smoking friends.

Chalk me up on this side of the tracks as well.

@Fugu, nice post mate. Anecdotal data is what a lot of use to determine our tastes and opinions. Yours and mine align here.

Someone had posted that they thought that the hygroscopic nature of tobacco was likely the same for all strains of tobacco. I cannot remember if that was on this thread or another... but that is untrue. Whether it varifies your theory is questionable but it does validate your theory has merit. As far as your theory goes, I tend to think that Cuban cigars are typically constructed different, but I don't rule out your theory.

I do not have Cuban tobacco data, but as you know (or may believe due to the fact that I have told you so) I do have a lot of more generic data on the hygroscopicity of tobacco. It is not Cuban specific as most of it came from papers originating from the cigarette industry. I have read many a paper discussing the hygroscopic nature of tobacco, and much of it is specific to the different strains found in cigarette blends. It is (or has been) treated differently and known to be different by cigarette makers. That evidence does exist... It alone does not prove your theory, but does in fact present the possibility, the real possibility that your theory has merit.

Cheers! -Piggy

[Fugu]

Thanks for the addition from your wealth of experience, Piggy!

3 hours ago, PigFish said:

Someone had posted that they thought that the hygroscopic nature of tobacco was likely the same for all strains of tobacco. I cannot remember if that was on this thread or another... but that is untrue.

Yep, of course that is not at all the case! Genetics is one thing, but phenotypic expression of an organism, in particular in plants, is driven a great deal by the prevailing environmental conditions (soil, climate, nutrients, grazing pressure etc.). There is a multitude of prominent examples for that, and you can begin with observing a lot of it in your own garden...!

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Thanks for the addition from your wealth of experience, Piggy!

Yep, of course that is not at all the case! Genetics is one thing, but phenotypic expression of an organism, in particular in plants, is driven a great deal by the prevailing environmental conditions (soil, climate, nutrients, grazing pressure etc.). There is a multitude of prominent examples for that, and you can begin with observing a lot of it in your own garden...!

... I just collect the monarch butterfly caterpillars. Lady Piggy does all the rest of the work!!! -LOL -tP

[Fugu]

I knew you wouldn't overdo it - the reason for me just talking of "observing"....

[Williamos]

Williamos, that level of right draws on recent production seems to appear to be a humidity issue rather than construction. Down right plugs are virtually gone, I haven't seen or heard of one for years. Firm draws can usually be sorted out by lowering your Rh near to 60% and/or dry boxing.

Are your cigars squishy to the feel or crispy?

Both the cigars I mentioned were actually purchased in a B&M in Melbourne as singles. Both seemed pretty good in terms of RH, just smoked very poorly. The Monte E cleared up after the first third but the D4, which I generally really enjoy, had to go in the bin.


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[Notsocleaver]

9 hours ago, Fugu said:

Actually, there is more you can do about a tight draw than there is remedy for a wind tunnel.
But I get your standpoint, obviously the draw-preference is as personal as it is taste (organoleptic, so to say), as this thread goes to show again.
 

Well, we might be onto something here. Perhaps you are storing your cigars on the moister end. If you have de-humidifying means in your storage, try and turn the set point a little lower and try smoking slender cigars only on dryer days. I am sure your proportion of 10 : 1 for plugged vs. windtunnel will reverse.

 

 

I have never successfully turned a too tight cigar into one with a thoroughly acceptable draw. Its nice to have many things to try, but if none of them work it hardly matters.

Bottom line for me is that for whatever reason, when I smoke a cigar, I can rely on the draw getting a little firmer as I smoke it. So the solution to a cigar that is a little too loose is to simply smoke slowly and know that the draw will fix itself. A firm cigar on the other hand is just going to get harder and harder to smoke as I go.

I store at 62 and generally dry box my cigars at 49 (boveda makes a pack for guitar storage that I use). When I smoke I take care to get as little saliva as possible on the end of my cigars. So yeah, as dry as I can get them. I've picked up tons of useful information about all sorts of things here over the years (long time lurker), but the preference for tighter cigars still mystifies me. Humidity differences in the smoking environment are the best I can come up with.

[Notsocleaver]

21 hours ago, Smallclub said:

What makes you think this thread is about plugged cigars, or "fofo" (underfilled) cigars? Why are you assuming that people who like the "cuban draw" are smoking tent pegs?

That response was given to a statement about loose cigars noting that they had burn problems. This is true, in extreme cases. My response was to point out problems with cigars on the other extreme end of the spectrum.

The original post talks about a cigar that was firm and needed work to draw well. He notes that he was surprised that it drew at all. That sounds like it was a cigar that was nearly plugged to me, and not a cigar that I would enjoy. He asks if anyone has similar experiences and people are chiming in saying that this is how they prefer their cigars. This seems strange to me.

 

16 hours ago, Smallclub said:

Says the man who joined this forum less than 3 months ago…

Tell me, who started to be unpleasant here? “ keep your lovely 2000 vintage flor de la tent pegs for yourselves”, talk about knowledge and good manners!

My apologies, I forget that some people might be reading in their second or third language, or contending with some form of autism spectrum disorder, or for some other reason may not pick up on hyperbole. I will limit my rhetorical flourish in the future.
 

I will also refrain from dismissing others based solely on their join date.

[LGC]

It doesn't matter if you store your cigars dry. A humid environment will ruin the combustion, especially towards the end... no matter if the cigars still draws well. Everyone comes to boards for definitive advice, but they are unwilling to perform experiments or apply scientific reasoning. Do whatever floats your boat. In the end, everything surrounding a burning wad of tobacco is highly subjective.

[FHFinster]

On September 8, 2016 at 0:16 PM, JZBdano said:

I have a couple boxes of LUB MAY 14 H Upmann petit corona, one box is on the firm side and the flavors are much more intense (mongrel) than the other box I have sampled.  I will let the firm box rest for several years to see if it mellows out a bit.

Same experience and same approach to remediate those LUB 5/14 HUPC