When bad bosses go bad

[forgop]

I've been in my current position for almost 3 years now and I've never been a part of such dysfunctional management.  Turnover is atrocious and quite frankly, it's primarily a function of management than someone moving on to bigger and better things.

I attempted to transfer a year ago, only for the current manager to badmouth me to the director of the position I interviewed for. During that time, I've put in on average of 60 hours/week for them and I've finally decided they won't get another minute over the minimum.  They have a knack for taking good employees and making them bad employees through their "leadership" practices.  I told one manager 2 months ago that in nearly 20 years of being in the work force, I've never been a "bad" employee until I worked here.  When you're told you're something your not, than by gosh, you will eventually become what they say you are.  I will be making my shoes as easy to fill as possible because it's a hell of a lot harder to replace someone who will put in 60-70 hours/week for you.  My stellar attendance will now also become a bit of a pain to them-not to the point that I'll incur any disciplinary action, but enough to know that I'm no longer having perfect attendance.  

Take the case of a co-worker who worked for this management team for 5 years and never received a raise because of performance reviews.  Mind you, he was still employed and from the time I started working with him, he'd pretty much mailed it in.  Why wouldn't he?  New grads were making more out of college than he was after 5 years of experience.  You'd have to wonder if someone was competent enough to still be employed if your performance reviews were that bad over a 5 year stretch.  He finally left just over a year ago, takes an equivalent position at another hospital, and within 9 months there, he's promoted.  So, in this case, do we have an employee who was bad or did management make him that way?  

Another co-worker was also subjected to not being outside of the clique and source of unwanted attention.  She's very competent in her job, but she just comes off wrong to some people, but they're more concerned with you being liked by co-workers and our patients it seems than doing your job well.  She's tried for some time to find a new job and finally received some offers last week.  An employer called for a referral for her and one of our managers gave a bad reference.  luckily, she had other good references from other people in this job and still got an offer.  

We're locked from having any internal transfers until the first of the year.  We're supposed to be conducting 1 on 1's with management and I think I will bring up this practice and how they attempt to block people they don't like from leaving simply because they don't want to have to fill your position.  It's a nightmare for them even to get people to apply, let alone make it through the interviewing process and accept a job.  I'll let them know that once I start submitting for an internal transfer, I will also be going to HR and letting them know of my intent to transfer and management practices to block anyone from leaving.  Ideally, I'd leave the hospital entirely, but they have a pension and will pay almost all of my new degree I'll be starting in November.  I just need to get out from under this department asap.  

Anybody else ever have horrible bosses?  

[Fuzz]

Wrote a long reply, reread it, then decided to delete it.

I left that company 3 yrs ago, and it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I left due to strong differences over how they were treating staff, and especially regarding the direction the company was going in (I was proven right recently). But I won't get over it if I keep re-hashing it. No point grousing about it, as I now work for myself, and am a lot happier.

 

[El Presidente]

Let go. 

Go elsewhere (internal or external). 

To be less than you can be (in or outside of work) damages only yourself mentally/spiritually. 

I have yet to see a maligned management/work culture transform in any organisation of significant size. Too many vested interests, too many false dawns. I am sure there are some...I just haven't witnessed them. 

Free yourself from it one way or the other and you will be a new man. You will feel the stress lift from your shoulders. The sky will look bluer, your food taste better, you will wonder why you tortured yourself all this time. 

...or you could be in the same position 2, 3, 5+ years from now. 

[forgop]

2 minutes ago, El Presidente said:

Let go. 

Go elsewhere (internal or external). 

To be less than you can be (in or outside of work) damages only yourself mentally/spiritually. 

I have yet to see a maligned management/work culture transform in any organisation of significant size. Too many vested interests, too many false dawns. I am sure there are some...I just haven't witnessed them. 

Free yourself from it one way or the other and you will be a new man. You will feel the stress lift from your shoulders. The sky will look bluer, your food taste better, you will wonder why you tortured yourself all this time. 

...or you could be in the same position 2, 3, 5+ years from now. 

I hear ya.  It really burdens me having the feelings that I do about this place  I've always worked in high stress environments and coped well in the past.  However, it's gotten to the point that I have episodes of high blood pressure, binge eating, and anxiety over it because of the chaos it causes.  I may be my own worst enemy in the sense that I've worked too much and burned myself out, but still, the desire is gone to appease management's view (which by the way, is entirely hearsay because I work nights and I've only had maybe 90 minutes of conversation with them in the past 1-1/2 years combined.  I just have to endure 4 more months of this garbage, but I will be pre-emptive in looking for a new home so when the internal freeze is lifted, I'll have some place to land.  

It will get a LOT better since I'll be working just 3 days a week here and it'll be Bye Felicia for my 4 days out of here each week.    

 

[JohnInCleveland]

I have a company that treats its employees well.  We treat management well, provide good benefits, have very little infighting, and promote from within.  

 

We always struggle to find good people bc so many people don't realize opportunities exist outside of their situation.  It's a good time to find work in a lot of fields bc good employees are in very high demand.  I work in the skilled trades, and we always need good tradesmen.  Many other fields are the same.  

 

Gotta agree with the Pres, people seldom regret leaving dysfunctional situations, don't let yourself develop Stockholm syndrome and become a cancerous person.  It can happen over time.

[irratebass]

Sorry to hear you going through this Duane, especially after how hard you have worked for this. I wish you the best....I too am in a "deadend" job. I looking to get out of it, but unfortunately I make too much, and I can't quit and go make less.....I'm am still on the hunt though. Best of luck bro, and yes my bosses suck too.

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[leftimatic]

16 hours ago, El Presidente said:

Let go. 

Go elsewhere (internal or external). 

To be less than you can be (in or outside of work) damages only yourself mentally/spiritually. 

I have yet to see a maligned management/work culture transform in any organisation of significant size. Too many vested interests, too many false dawns. I am sure there are some...I just haven't witnessed them. 

Free yourself from it one way or the other and you will be a new man. You will feel the stress lift from your shoulders. The sky will look bluer, your food taste better, you will wonder why you tortured yourself all this time. 

...or you could be in the same position 2, 3, 5+ years from now. 

I agree two things I wont tolerate from an employer is disrespect and a bounced paycheque. If either happens once I am gone. Kicked a boss in the nuts for calling me stupid once. It was construction in the 80's mind you. It was on a Friday and he called me on Saturday to see if I was still showing up on Monday. Worked for him off and on for ten years and he never called me stupid ever again. Life is too short for such bullshite.

[cigarsandcoffee]

I highly recommend a book called: Secrets to Winning at Office Politics, by Marie McIntyre. While it won't solve all of your problems, it will provide some strategies when working with difficult people.

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[MooseAMuffin]

Sorry to hear this man. I understand where you're coming from. I just had my annual review last month and I put in 50-60 a week even though I'm salaried at 40. After the review, I realized I was incredibly under appreciated so I did what you did and refused to put in any extra time over 40. Two weeks after my review, I get asked why my hours are down so much. I was honest with them in a polite a professional manner and they just pretty much rebuked anything I said.

Needless to say, I'll be jumping ship as soon as I find something else I'd rather do.

Hang in there for the time being but remeber, you have to do what's best for you. Don't let some jackass manager take your sanity. Stick it to them by pushing through and finding something better. You'll have the last laugh.

[StumpyJoe]

23 hours ago, forgop said:

I hear ya.  It really burdens me having the feelings that I do about this place  I've always worked in high stress environments and coped well in the past.  However, it's gotten to the point that I have episodes of high blood pressure, binge eating, and anxiety over it because of the chaos it causes.  I may be my own worst enemy in the sense that I've worked too much and burned myself out, but still, the desire is gone to appease management's view (which by the way, is entirely hearsay because I work nights and I've only had maybe 90 minutes of conversation with them in the past 1-1/2 years combined.  I just have to endure 4 more months of this garbage, but I will be pre-emptive in looking for a new home so when the internal freeze is lifted, I'll have some place to land.  

It will get a LOT better since I'll be working just 3 days a week here and it'll be Bye Felicia for my 4 days out of here each week.    

 

I had a crappy boss for 3 1/2 years.  The result...I outlasted him and am a lot happier now.  I also have had a second crown put in because I was grinding my teeth so bad I cracked two teeth.

 

Listen to the Prez.  He speaks wisdom.

[forgop]

I highly recommend a book called: Secrets to Winning at Office Politics, by Marie McIntyre. While it won't solve all of your problems, it will provide some strategies when working with difficult people.

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I don't think there's a book that'll work work when i work with mostly women. The IRS tax code is shorter than that.

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[Warren]

Hi Duane

I was just going to reply to your post in my usual jokey manner , something along the lines of hey Dianna is that you. Ha ha.

But this is a serious topic and it deserves a serious reply. What Rob has said is spot on. Time goes bye way too fast to wait for the right time to escape from this toxic situation. You need to surround yourself with people who appreciate what you have to bring to a work situation. You need to feel appreciated so that you can continue to grow as a person and as an employee.

Now I have always been pretty much self employed. I did work for my family business but it pretty much morphed into my business and when you are self employed your  customers become your employers. I had worked for the one steel company from the time I was about 17 up until I was in my early thirties so a pretty big chunk of my life at that time. Over the years this steel company changed hands a few times until one day a new owner came along and put a guy in charge of maintenance, this position was pretty much what I used to do as a contractor to said steel company. Now this guy was a complete bully and took great joy in trying to run me down in front of other people. I always knew that I was right in what I was doing but it didn't make it any easier. One day after I had failed to turn up for my scheduled maintenance tasks that month he called me to ask when I would be in. I told him never, never call me again I am finished with you. This steel company was a major customer and at the time you wonder what you are doing but a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders and I immediately felt happier to be free of this bully and a company that was getting a reputation for being difficult to deal with. It helped that I already had a good reputation in the steel industry but you are still left with filling the void that you have just created in your income. It didn't take long and I went on to build a good strong customer base of people who appreciate what I can do for them. That steel company no longer exists and I recently ran into the bully and he had become a very meek individual who still drags around a reputation of a much hated person. I actually felt sorry for him and ironically we got along fine.

Don't hesitate. If you truly have the talent for what you are doing and the work ethic to match then people will find you. You must help them find you but it won't happen if you continue to let your current management team drag you down.

Have confidence in your abilities and go for it.

[cigcars]

*Remember the days, folks, when we were having postal workers go off and start shooting the people in their office environment? I once asked one of the postal employees after another mail person's shooting spree; "What's going on? What are they doing to you all in here to make this happen?" And he said, oh it's terrible. For example, he said, we can have somebody among the public make a complaint against us, and management knows it's not true...but they punish us anyway! And I said, well you've just described where I work!!  Is it bad bosses or a bad company? One of the things I noticed that contributes to an ongoing bad environment for employees is upper management making sure that only the people who they can control being able to climb to higher positions in company. I've seen highly qualified individuals - people who've aced the necessary tests to get promoted be deliberately sabotaged one way or another to keep them out of higher management. Because they knew they couldn't control that individual, i.e., if they might want somebody unjustly written up, they knew that intelligent guy or gal wasn't gonna do it if they knew it couldn't be justified. Sooo - you get people in charge who are weak and spineless...who can't fairly give orders to all their staff so they "reward" the employees who don't give them any problem - and who always do what they're told - by dumping everything in the world on just that or those employees' backs...ALL DAY LONG. And then that employee realizes that for their own sake they better do something about that, fast, because it'll become a case of abuse, and then because they were taken for granted, the first and tiniest little mistake they make results in their being FIRED - NOT because they were an asshole, or deserved it, but because the bosses ended with having no regard or respect for them - because that poor employee could be pushed around. I found out a long time ago in my younger years of working for a bad boss to not let yourself be turned into a workhorse. Because workhorses are never thanked. They're only worked and worked, and worked and worked until they drop. And then management tries to see how much they can make off their dead body, so to speak. As uncomfortable as that good employee might find it to have to say something to abuse, I'm sure ALL of you working or prior working people on this forum can think of your work environments where good and dedicated employees who always showed up on time, always did their job, always could be depended on were not only not appreciated, it appeared they didn't even have the right to make mistakes or get sick without it resulting in their jobs being threatened. And yet, those employees who were sorry, lazy, couldn't be depended on, are a pain-in-the-ass to work with, won't do what they're supposed to, out sick every other week - the company just loves them to death.

[Fosgate]

Feel for you. As someone mentioned earlier about violence. I have been in a similar situation working as a business manager in the surgical unit of a hospital while I was going to college. I was motivated to write this paper for a class not so much in relation for the violence but how a toxic environment is a result from poor management. In my process of researching the paper https://www.dropbox.com/s/9nyhkx309tdu6gy/VIOLENCE IN THE WORKPLACE.docx?dl=0 I reflected how toxic the environment was that I was at. Leaving was the best decision I ever made. My cousin also had a similar experience in a toxic hospital ward. She was lucky enough to transfer to a large surgical center run by doctors who were contracted by the hospital so she kept her benefits and has been happy since. You mention college but there are many places that will pickup the bill on it with a time commitment to the business/hospital. Seems by the OP's description they have managements attention now. Having their attention is not a good thing especially if they think your next. I worked at another place and as a manager if we fired someone it did not hurt our turnover ratio, it only hurt us if they quit. I would get out before they try to cover their own numbers and scar your resume in the process. Your in a toxic environment that most certainly will have a departmental affect not only on your health but personal relationship with your family and friends as well.  

[PatrickEwing]

I'm just finishing a book called Legacy by James Kerr. Since it's based on the the All Blacks transformation and subsequent organizational structure, I'm guessing a few of our Southern friends may have heard of it. I recommend it. Although perhaps not directly applicable to the original post of bad bosses, it may just give some insight, some confidence and maybe some courage to leave a subpar situation. I've gained from it. 

[forgop]

A couple of points certainly apply in the sense of spineless management. They seem clueless about some of the issues we deal with and sell us out when we enforce policies or even just do what we're supposed to do. Thus, we don't even care to enforce policies because it's not worth the trouble.

One co-worker described them as micro-managing everything and leading nothing which perfectly sums it up.

As far as letting.them know of my intent to transfer, they don't care. They will keep me in a heartbeat, but give out bad reviews to anyone that inquires just to try to block you, which is why I'll be going to HR. Everyone that's left oir department had to leave the hosltial entirely, but I'm determined to beat them at their own game.

Now excuse me as I go call off of work tonight since I'm a terrible employee.

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[Fosgate]

Problem is in any business environment you get the behavior that you reward for. You have a high turnover because of bad managers/supervisors, you have bad managers and supervisors because of lack of their bosses inability or unwillingness to manage them and HR is often partnered right along with them as they are often the ones that collaborated in planning the current train wreck management style. I've just seen too many complaints go to HR and from there on deaf ears or a wind up with a round table discussion as HR drops the employees name with all the managers, tainting their reputation. I'm guilty myself of hiring for my group and see an application from within and recall any problems or talk with their manager and take their word for it that this employee is trouble and wont last long.  Or the opposite, I pickup the sense the employee is driving them up the wall and my instinct tells me to avoid them. 

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, forgop said:

A couple of points certainly apply in the sense of spineless management. They seem clueless about some of the issues we deal with and sell us out when we enforce policies or even just do what we're supposed to do. Thus, we don't even care to enforce policies because it's not worth the trouble.

One co-worker described them as micro-managing everything and leading nothing which perfectly sums it up.

As far as letting.them know of my intent to transfer, they don't care. They will keep me in a heartbeat, but give out bad reviews to anyone that inquires just to try to block you, which is why I'll be going to HR. Everyone that's left oir department had to leave the hosltial entirely, but I'm determined to beat them at their own game.

Now excuse me as I go call off of work tonight since I'm a terrible employee.

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Besides leaving, your best weapon here is your ability to track events and keep your own log of them. Documentation is your first line of defense. You have a right, I presume to have copies of your personnel file. You should get them. And then you should go about challenging any aspect of the file that you deem is inappropriate.

If you are salaried, you need to keep a time card! Many states have laws about working salaried employees to death! If your computer has log on and off records get them! You can take a picture daily of your screen when you log on and off! Make sure you can prove you are doing the time and getting the job done.

The employee handbook is your friend (believe it or not). Knowing it better than your boss and those that occupy HR is relatively easy. Ask for a copy of all your reviews, and what specific actions have lead to negative remarks or reviews. When you show up for review meetings, come armed with the employee handbook! See if your employee handbook allows you a witness or 3rd party participation in the meeting. Ask if recording the proceedings is inappropriate. When you ask if recording a meeting is acceptable, you will get immediate notice as someone who is serious about what you are doing!

Usually these people don't want to be documented! That is good. They will likely want to move you along as soon as they can when you appear to be framing a case against them, or attempting to hold them accountable. Most employees are afraid to document. Don't let the opposition be the only side that holds written records or transcripts. He who holds the best documentation, often wins! If you are going to be considered a problem by management, make sure you are known as a problem with 'records.' Do not gossip or involve other parties. You don't want to be a documented moral problem. Keep what you are doing to yourself. Only speak highly about the company publicly.

Bear in mind, you do this at your own risk. Make sure that you are within your rights before you attempt it....

People who abuse employees are often the problem themselves. They are likely to make the most grievous mistakes and only get away with it because no one documents them... Be the guy who documents...

Best of luck. -Piggy

[forgop]

Problem is in any business environment you get the behavior that you reward for. You have a high turnover because of bad managers/supervisors, you have bad managers and supervisors because of lack of their bosses inability or unwillingness to manage them and HR is often partnered right along with them as they are often the ones that collaborated in planning the current train wreck management style. I've just seen too many complaints go to HR and from there on deaf ears or a wind up with a round table discussion as HR drops the employees name with all the managers, tainting their reputation. I'm guilty myself of hiring for my group and see an application from within and recall any problems or talk with their manager and take their word for it that this employee is trouble and wont last long.  Or the opposite, I pickup the sense the employee is driving them up the wall and my instinct tells me to avoid them. 

Part of the plan will be to reach out to managers i want to work for and set up a shadow and get to know some of the people in the department. When it comes time to interview, I will ask that they contact the night supervisor for a referral than a manager that has spoken with me for less than 2 hours in over a year and a half. It just so happens a night supervisor intends to go and will try to follow her which will make it easier.

Truth be told, the day shift is staffed with some whiny catty $&/@*÷# who are management pets who believe badmouthing others make them better at their jobs. The idea that your co-workers are given performance appraisals for 6-8 people and they give good scores for those in their jr high level clique and bad reviews for those who grew the hell up. Your raises are based upon likeability than actual performance and competence. To make things worse, management hand selects who reviews one another, so they ultimately predetermine the outcomes.

We're implementing.a new charting system in less than a month and they requested people to become "super users" to train everyone else. It just so happens I received far more training on the same program 4 years ago and was involved with the roll out at 2 other hospitals. I'm the only person in the department that's ever even used it, let alone be an "expert" on it. I would have loved being a part of this and provided management a LOT of guidance, but hey, I'm just a bad employee.

[forgop]

13 minutes ago, PigFish said:

Besides leaving, your best weapon here is your ability to track events and keep your own log of them. Documentation is your first line of defense. You have a right, I presume to have copies of your personnel file. You should get them. And then you should go about challenging any aspect of the file that you deem is inappropriate.

If you are salaried, you need to keep a time card! Many states have laws about working salaried employees to death! If your computer has log on and off records get them! You can take a picture daily of your screen when you log on and off! Make sure you can prove you are doing the time and getting the job done.

The employee handbook is your friend (believe it or not). Knowing it better than your boss and those that occupy HR is relatively easy. Ask for a copy of all your reviews, and what specific actions have lead to negative remarks or reviews. When you show up for review meetings, come armed with the employee handbook! See if your employee handbook allows you a witness or 3rd party participation in the meeting. Ask if recording the proceedings is inappropriate. When you ask if recording a meeting is acceptable, you will get immediate notice as someone who is serious about what you are doing!

Usually these people don't want to be documented! That is good. They will likely want to move you along as soon as they can when you appear to be framing a case against them, or attempting to hold them accountable. Most employees are afraid to document. Don't let the opposition be the only side that holds written records or transcripts. He who holds the best documentation, often wins! If you are going to be considered a problem by management, make sure you are known as a problem with 'records.' Do not gossip or involve other parties. You don't want to be a documented moral problem. Keep what you are doing to yourself. Only speak highly about the company publicly.

Bear in mind, you do this at your own risk. Make sure that you are within your rights before you attempt it....

People who abuse employees are often the problem themselves. They are likely to make the most grievous mistakes and only get away with it because no one documents them... Be the guy who documents...

Best of luck. -Piggy

I punch a clock.  I used to do the salaried thing and I made far less.  I will put in roughly 5-10 hours in more a week this year than my previous career, but I'll make $50k more a year in the process. 

I don't do anything more than hit the clcok in/out and do what I'm supposed to do between 1830-0700.  I quit going to staff meetings.  I don't participate in any of their stupid committees.  I don't attend any of their events.  My performance apprasal is still sitting in my email (unread) and unsigned from 6 months ago.  By these standards, yeah, sure I'm a bad employee, but doing any of the aforementioned things won't have any bearing on my outcome, so why bother.  It didn't matter when I was doing that kind of stuff.    It's funny that you say don't gossip.  3/4 of the people I work with are women and that's all they do.  The gossip mill is what painted me as "bad" to management and hearsay apparently has more substance than the truth.  The people who say the bad stuff are on the opposite shift-not the 10-12 others I work with any given night. 

I really used to care.  The increased stress caused enough anxiety that I just had to let go of caring so I don't have anxiety attacks and high blood pressure. 

I'll have to look and check out the video camera situation. I may just have to place a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People in my manager's mailbox. 

 

[planetary]

First, I'm very sorry to hear this.  Most of us have been in similar situations.  I certainly have.

From what you've shared in this thread, the best thing you can do is leave at your first available opportunity.  Everything else is a compromise nursed by an illusion of the company you wished you worked for rather than the one that actually exists.  My guess is that you know it to be true when when you are in bed at night staring up at the ceiling wondering why you can't go to sleep.

Act.  Be bold.  Your time is valuable.