Humidity Beads

[Bohn007]

Looking to buy my first set of Humidity Beads. Which is better or does it make a difference? Humidity Bead Systems or Heartfelt Industries? Any thoughts?

[Lezanstar]

Contraversial topic sometimes, but I use 100% silica litter and boveda. The litter I use is Mimi brand from Wally World. $4 for a bag that will be more than sufficient for any size humi you have. Spritz with distilled water and leave them be. In a well sealed humidor, the boveda will last a year or more once everything is seasoned and regulated.

[lafabrica]

i thought about cigar storage quite a bit in the beginning - mostly between airtight or not, how it would scale, maintenance, etc.  i use boveda, but read up on beads.

i would have chosen heartfelt if i took that path, but hbs is likely similar.  the difference looks to be how they are contained.  i like the nylon mesh style vs. a hard container.

in another post you stated a storage need of 400-600 more.  and "looking to buy my first set" hopefully means starting with 3-4lbs...

 

[jwr0201]

Heartfelt and HCM used both, both are superb.

 

[Bohn007]

6 hours ago, lafabrica said:

i thought about cigar storage quite a bit in the beginning - mostly between airtight or not, how it would scale, maintenance, etc.  i use boveda, but read up on beads.

i would have chosen heartfelt if i took that path, but hbs is likely similar.  the difference looks to be how they are contained.  i like the nylon mesh style vs. a hard container.

in another post you stated a storage need of 400-600 more.  and "looking to buy my first set" hopefully means starting with 3-4lbs...

 

There is something twisted about the fact that I am willing to spend $1,000 (US) on a couple of boxes of cigars but hesitant to spend another $800 to store them. However, if I had 10 cubic feet of space, according to the Heartfelt website I only need 2lbs of beads or am I missing something? 

[saintsmokealot]

I use 2 lb of Heartfelt in a 150 gallon cooler. Never had a problem. Holds a steady 65%.

[Jimmy_jack]

Contraversial topic sometimes, but I use 100% silica litter and boveda. The litter I use is Mimi brand from Wally World. $4 for a bag that will be more than sufficient for any size humi you have. Spritz with distilled water and leave them be. In a well sealed humidor, the boveda will last a year or more once everything is seasoned and regulated.

I know it's relative to the humidor and individual situation. However, what RH are you keeping with the litter?


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[Lezanstar]

I know it's relative to the humidor and individual situation. However, what RH are you keeping with the litter?


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The litter can be trained to whatever RH you prefer. I have a Whynter 251 and keep it at 65rh.

[Bohn007]

34 minutes ago, saintsmokealot said:

I use 2 lb of Heartfelt in a 150 gallon cooler. Never had a problem. Holds a steady 65%.

I am going to go the cooler route as well, I believe. Did you do anything extra to seal the gaps or just snap the lid shut and everything is good?

[saintsmokealot]

Cooler is just how I bought it. You don't want to totally seal it off imho. But you do need to clean it well and air out the plastic smell. I also did line the cooler with the Cedar sheets before placing in the boxes.

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[Bohn007]

17 minutes ago, saintsmokealot said:

Cooler is just how I bought it. You don't want to totally seal it off imho. But you do need to clean it well and air out the plastic smell. I also did line the cooler with the Cedar sheets before placing in the boxes.

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Where did you get the cedar sheets?

[saintsmokealot]

From empty cigar boxes. Just an extra step that probably isn't necessary if you don't have them.

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[Ethernut]

12 minutes ago, Bohn007 said:

Where did you get the cedar sheets?

Been using a cooler for 10 years, you really don't need to line it. It's nice, but not necessary. 

Im using 65% Heartfelt. Works great. Only have to feed them every month or two.

I typically run my RH around 63% thus I run my beads on the dry side.

[PigFish]

3 hours ago, Bohn007 said:

There is something twisted about the fact that I am willing to spend $1,000 (US) on a couple of boxes of cigars but hesitant to spend another $800 to store them. However, if I had 10 cubic feet of space, according to the Heartfelt website I only need 2lbs of beads or am I missing something? 

Blanket claims about desiccant buffer rations based on cubic space are really meaningless, but people need to start somewhere.

You should understand that a silica desiccant will contain approximately 30 to 40% water based on weight at 65rH. This is just an estimate based on some knowledge of the substrate.

Tobacco on the other hand is about 10 to 12% water. So you have to ask yourself, what is buffering what when you look at a relationship of desiccant content to cigar content?

If you really thought much about the comparison, pound for pound, the desiccant holds (lets just keep it simple) 4 times the water than cigars do at the same rH. The logical answer then would be a ratio of 4/1 cigars to engineered desiccant. That makes the water content of each substate about equal. This means that the desiccant is truly buffering the cigars verses the cigars buffering the desiccant!

Unfortunately if you tell the shopping public what real parity in water content in the humidor will cost them, they will look at the number, likely baulk at it and choose a different product. If you tell them a 'more reasonable' number and then answer any question with "just buy more desiccant" then the result is about the same, except that you sell more desiccant as the result!

There are a lot of myths in the cigar desiccant world. This comes from a misunderstanding of the substate that starts with the reseller. It is after all a buffer. And the closer the ambient is to the internals of the humidor, the less buffer you need! The lesser the air exchanges with the ambient, the lesser the buffer you need... This factors into a ratio somewhere but it is never brought up, except my me! When asking most folks why their desiccant buffer is not up to the job, the most common answer is you don't have enough... This almost always works out in favor of the desiccant reseller!!!

This is of course why people turn to cat litter. Cat litter is just a lousy desiccant (not engineered). As always you have choices. Engineered products are markedly better (more efficient) but you have to pay for that!

Just a little food for thought! -Piggy

[lafabrica]

5 hours ago, Bohn007 said:

There is something twisted about the fact that I am willing to spend $1,000 (US) on a couple of boxes of cigars but hesitant to spend another $800 to store them. However, if I had 10 cubic feet of space, according to the Heartfelt website I only need 2lbs of beads or am I missing something? 

ha!  not twisted - i get that completely.

and i simply meant purchase 'more' - your numbers are the minimum amount.

it's my understanding that having excess beads is not detrimental (as the website also states).  and in your other post, if your cigars arrive with a higher RH than you prefer, the excess beads will allow increased absorption.  i would spend the added cost for that reason + the scalability.

now you don't have to get a piece of "furniture" and you can budget the savings for more cigars

[Jimmy_jack]

I'm buying a wine cooler tomorrow, I can't pass it up because of the price. Brand new 28bottle unit for 70usd. I have 70% beads now but I'm gonna let them dry out for a few days, throw them in and see where the RH lands. 

Thanks to you all I believe if I do it right I can make them hang in the 62-65% range.

[Bohn007]

Thanks for all of the advice I ended up buying a Igloo 110 quart Marine cooler with a pound of Heartfelt Beads at 65%. The beads should be here in the next few days. 

[SloppyJ]

What I've found that works for me is that I keep 2lbs of 65% beads in my wineador. I spread them out over the top,middle, and bottom shelves in tupperware that will give the most surface area for the beads to work. I charge half the beads and the others are left uncharged. For me this works, YMMV. 

[trike]

On 9/5/2016 at 9:35 AM, Lezanstar said:

The litter can be trained to whatever RH you prefer. I have a Whynter 251 and keep it at 65rh.

Please define the term "trained"?  How does one go about "training" KL?

[vladdraq]

13 minutes ago, trike said:

Please define the term "trained"?  How does one go about "training" KL?

The best is the Bowflex thing i think

[CigarmanTim]

Always, always go over the suggested amount by 25%. You can have too little of beads but because of their properties I'm not to sure you can have to much. I have heartfelt and love them. The bags do degrade over time especially if you spray distilled h2o on them. 

[Bohn007]

6 minutes ago, CigarmanTim said:

Always, always go over the suggested amount by 25%. You can have too little of beads but because of their properties I'm not to sure you can have to much. I have heartfelt and love them. The bags do degrade over time especially if you spray distilled h2o on them. 

I am getting two bags and 1lb of beads. Is that how you charge them the best? By spraying water on the bag?

[vladdraq]

On September 5, 2016 at 3:21 PM, PigFish said:

Blanket claims about desiccant buffer rations based on cubic space are really meaningless, but people need to start somewhere.

You should understand that a silica desiccant will contain approximately 30 to 40% water based on weight at 65rH. This is just an estimate based on some knowledge of the substrate.

Tobacco on the other hand is about 10 to 12% water. So you have to ask yourself, what is buffering what when you look at a relationship of desiccant content to cigar content?

If you really thought much about the comparison, pound for pound, the desiccant holds (lets just keep it simple) 4 times the water than cigars do at the same rH. The logical answer then would be a ratio of 4/1 cigars to engineered desiccant. That makes the water content of each substate about equal. This means that the desiccant is truly buffering the cigars verses the cigars buffering the desiccant!

Unfortunately if you tell the shopping public what real parity in water content in the humidor will cost them, they will look at the number, likely baulk at it and choose a different product. If you tell them a 'more reasonable' number and then answer any question with "just buy more desiccant" then the result is about the same, except that you sell more desiccant as the result!

There are a lot of myths in the cigar desiccant world. This comes from a misunderstanding of the substate that starts with the reseller. It is after all a buffer. And the closer the ambient is to the internals of the humidor, the less buffer you need! The lesser the air exchanges with the ambient, the lesser the buffer you need... This factors into a ratio somewhere but it is never brought up, except my me! When asking most folks why their desiccant buffer is not up to the job, the most common answer is you don't have enough... This almost always works out in favor of the desiccant reseller!!!

This is of course why people turn to cat litter. Cat litter is just a lousy desiccant (not engineered). As always you have choices. Engineered products are markedly better (more efficient) but you have to pay for that!

Just a little food for thought! -Piggy

Piggy, what you think, if you put a dried out cigar side by side with the same weight of dried out beads and you close this in a humid environement for one day, after you weight them, which one will be heavier?

 

[PigFish]

6 minutes ago, vladdraq said:

Piggy, what you think, if you put a dried out cigar side by side with the same weight of dried out beads and you close this in a humid environement for one day, after you weight them, which one will be heavier?

 

... you are not serious? This place is beginning to sound like a game show!

I have no idea, it would depend on the isotherms of each, and the ambient temp. The two substrates have different isothermal behavior for a given temp and one is likely more attractive at first than the other based on those factors.

In the end, use some common senses. If your typical desiccant holds 4x the water at 65rH, my guess it is it will still be some multiple at lesser equilibrium rH. (I am guessing)

That is your answer.

Why do I feel cheap? Now leave a $20 on the nightstand before you put out the lights!!! 

-the Pig

[vladdraq]

well, i was serious. As you say, the two substrates have different behaviour. The water content of each doesn't matter as much. It's more about surface tensions, adsorption, active surface  and way complicated stuff. I was wondering nowadays the water in the leaf is bonded chemically or just van der waals bonds....it would take months for me to recall all that infos and really understand whats going on.

 

Sorry if i felt cheap. Really.