Muted Flavors and Bitter Taste

[agulerer]

Hi,

Is there someone had any muted flavors and bitter taste at 70 rh? 

[garbandz]

yes,that's why I gave up Starbucks.................

you need to add some information,what are you smoking?

how long have you had them,etc...................

[agulerer]

2 minutes ago, garbandz said:

yes,that's why I gave up Starbucks.................

you need to add some information,what are you smoking?

how long have you had them,etc...................

Cuban cigars. It is 3 years aged. I did have 69 rh and taste very good. But a lot of people said get rh down to 65 rh. Than I am confused a lot. Habanos says 65-70 rh all good. Zino Davidoff says 67-72 rh all good. So what is problem about 70 rh in case of taste? I wanted to learn people experiences. 

[CaptainQuintero]

70% is what everyone starts at because, as you say, habanos and retailers generally peddle the 70/70 slogan. However it is just that, a marketing slogan.

If you like cigars at 70% then obviously keep your stash there. But most will find their cigars have sharper, cleaner flavours the closer you get to 50% (where the wrappers start to get brittle) plus when you get past 65% you will generally not have to relight your cigars.

It's worth testing out, most keep their stock a lot lower than 70% after experimenting

[RijkdeGooier]

There is even a difference between the smoking and storing Rh.

Generally I smoke between 62-67 and store a bit higher at 65-70 to make sure they remain moist and not loose any flavors

[agulerer]

5 minutes ago, RijkdeGooier said:

There is even a difference between the smoking and storing Rh.

Generally I smoke between 62-67 and store a bit higher at 65-70 to make sure they remain moist and not loose any flavors

 

Hmm. Do you find any taste difference at 67 rh and at 62 rh? 

[RijkdeGooier]

Really, I am nothing but an amateur.

Through guidance of others and some experimentation I have come up with my ranges which work for me. I use passive humidification with beads in my smoking humidor and active humidification in my storage.

In summer I have a lower Rh, because of ambient holds more water, in winter a higher Rh because my ambient contains less water. That is all I know and it works for me.

If you want an education ask @Pigfish he is the resident expert.

I don't notice much of a difference given that the cigars weigh the same winter or summer and are to my untrained experience the same taking into account the different ambient Rh and temp.

[agulerer]

On jrcigars site, I saw that on winter they say 68 rh and on summer they say 63 rh. If outside is too humid, I think cigar has burn problems and bitter taste even at 63 rh. But if outside is too dry, cigar does not have burn problem and has good taste at 72 rh. Is it true?

[stogieluver]

6 hours ago, agulerer said:

Hi,

Is there someone had any muted flavors and bitter taste at 70 rh? 

I'm assuming you're asking about Cuban cigars, so my answer to this will be 70rH is waaaay too high rH for Cubans.  I have learned through personal experience over several years of experimentation that Cubans smoke, burn, and taste much better when stored in the low 60's to high 50's rH.  The ideal compromise for short and long term storage seems to be no more than 65% rH. 

1 hour ago, agulerer said:

On jrcigars site, I saw that on winter they say 68 rh and on summer they say 63 rh. If outside is too humid, I think cigar has burn problems and bitter taste even at 63 rh. But if outside is too dry, cigar does not have burn problem and has good taste at 72 rh. Is it true?

JR Cigars is a Non Cuban retailer, so they are giving advice on, as far as I can tell with limited information to go on here, non Cuban cigars.  Non Cuban cigars, I'm told, have a thicker wrapper and seem to do better at 70% to 72% rH.

From my experience, smoking Cuban cigars outside in high humidity will result in uneven burn and a harsh taste.

Bottom line is I would not store Cuban cigars at any rH over 65% at a around 70 degrees F.  I try to keep my cabinet humidor at no more than 70 degrees F and strive to maintain an rh of no more than 62-63% rH.  My results have been very very good with this formula.

[shlomo]

Maybe you just had a bad cigar. 1% of humidity will not make any noticeable difference.

[agulerer]

Yes maybe bad cigar. Is there someone who keeps and smoke his Cuban cigars at 69-70 rh?

[Smallclub]

47 minutes ago, agulerer said:

Yes maybe bad cigar. Is there someone who keeps and smoke his Cuban cigars at 69-70 rh?

A few tens thousands aficionados in France, Switzerland, Belgium, etc.

[agulerer]

2 minutes ago, Smallclub said:

A few tens thousands aficionados in France, Switzerland, Belgium, etc.

 oooooppppsssss. My brain burned. It is hard to decide which rh to choose. So Europeans choose 70 rh and Americans 65 rh. Interesting.

[Habana Mike]

Greetings and welcome to FOH agulerer!

Everyone has different tastes, opinions and experiences. For one I've found I like to smoke my Habanos at the lower end of the recommended RH spectrum - 58-60% seems best for me.

[Dimmers]

36 minutes ago, Habana Mike said:

Everyone has different tastes, opinions and experiences

This. Might be best for you to sample multiple examples at diff levels, so as to get a feel what what smokes best for you. This could be just a dud stick, that could have nothing to do with rh.

FWIW, i aim for a stable 63rh/65F environment.

[CaptainQuintero]

Remember that hygrometers, unless you're spending very large amounts of cash, are only accurate to anything from 2-5% or even more

[earthson]

On NC, no. I keep my Fuente products at 70 rh. CC? If ill be smoking them soon, I keep them from 59-62 ±. My coolerdor, where it's all about long-term aging, I keep in the high 60s. This regimen is what I've found works best for me.

[agulerer]

Today, I called 5-6 La Casa Del Habano in different countries. England, Germany, Belgium, Holland and Luxembourg. I asked about optimum rh% and taste difference. All of them said there is no noticeable taste difference between 65-70 rh. Different is about burn and draw. Maybe taste difference is psychological between 65 rh and 70 rh. They said for long term aging 65rh is very important. But for ready to smoke you can keep between 65-70 rh.

What do you think after these?

[LordAnubis]

Mate everyone has opinions. My opinions are no less valuable than that of Zino Davidoff, or the LCDHs or yours. Opinions are just that, opinions! There is no exact science. Take the advice of what others have suggested and try for yourself. Before you smoke next time, put the cigar in a warm place for a few hours. It will loose moisture content from the tobacco. Alternatively, if you have a suitable ambient environment, then by all means just leave the cigar out of the humidor for 3 days (but you have to know what your ambient environment conditions are, be sure of that first).

All opinions are formed from trial and personal preference. Test for yourself, and let us know your opinion

[agulerer]

What do you think high rh in hot days and low rh in cold days?

[Sophistic]

i associate bitter taste more with cigars, that are too dry. too much moisture usually gives a cigar a sharp, metallic taste in my experience ( different to the taste of ammonia in young cigars). i keep my cigars at 70% and/but stopped smoking them right out of the box, some days in a unhumified box or 30-40mins in the freezer certainly improve taste.

[agulerer]

What is your temp?

[PigFish]

When you leave temperature our of the equation my friends, the topic becomes moot.

When you called anyone and ask what rH and they definitively told you that there is no difference in taste and did not ask you to reference, nor did they reference a temperature in their advice, they proved (to me at least) that their advice was worth nothing.

There is plenty of good data above and I am rating the post @LordAnubis at the top of the list!

Good luck on your survey! -Piggy

[agulerer]

After I made many many phone calls to other some well known cigar divans whole around the world and some sellers, all of them told me that Cuban cigars smoke good until but never go more than 70 rh and go down more than 65 rh. Between 65-70 it is all good they say. And read Steve Saka's real world test and looked at my experiences. I smoked Hoyo Epi 2 at 67rh% and it was really great. 

Than I think about Zino Davidoff book and he suggests 67-72 rh%. Than I think Min Ron Nee and his suggestions about daily smokes at 70 rh%. Than my conclusion is:

Now than, I am always happy between 65-70 rh with my Cuban cigars.  Other things are only obsessions. 

 

[CaptainQuintero]

4 hours ago, agulerer said:

After I made many many phone calls to other some well known cigar divans whole around the world and some sellers, all of them told me that Cuban cigars smoke good until but never go more than 70 rh and go down more than 65 rh. Between 65-70 it is all good they say. And read Steve Saka's real world test and looked at my experiences. I smoked Hoyo Epi 2 at 67rh% and it was really great. 

Than I think about Zino Davidoff book and he suggests 67-72 rh%. Than I think Min Ron Nee and his suggestions about daily smokes at 70 rh%. Than my conclusion is:

Now than, I am always happy between 65-70 rh with my Cuban cigars.  Other things are only obsessions. 

 

The problem you have is that you are asking those people about your tastes. Taste is completely and utterly subjective. Everyone here has suggested you experiment with your cigars, over a period of time, not on a single cigar, going down to the high 50s, and see if you prefer your cigars at a certain r/h level. That's because no one can tell you what you're olfactory system will appreciate. The people you've contacted have apparently told you what you will like, not how to go about finding for yourself what you will like.

All this talk is relatively moot if your hygrometer isn't accurate. Even the industry standard xikar/calibre/etc are only accurate from anything like 2-5% so your 67% could be anything from 62-72 in reality. If you're going to obsess over humidity then you need to invest a few hundred dollars into a laboratory quality hygrometer