New source...should I freeze them?

[Jimmy_jack]

So I have a delivery today and they look good. At least to my untrained eye. Smell is there, construction feels/looks right. Maybe a tad soft from the sources humidification. If you see anything suspect feel free to say so.

 Here is my question. Should I freeze then before introducing them to the family? Or just humidify in quarantine. I have the ability to do that as well. I'm asking for fear of beetles. 

Thanks in advance. 

[Jimmy_jack]

On another note, I got the old Rollagas up and running. 

[CaptainQuintero]

It certainly can't hurt, if you're concerned and it gives you peace of mind then go for it.

Lighter looks good

[Sprouthog]

Freezing is personal preference.  I see my cigars as an investment.  I insure my investment by freezing everything when I receive it.  Never had a beetle outbreak and hopefully never will. 

[Jimmy_jack]

Thanks. To follow up...how long should I freeze?


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[TheMonk]

I also freeze everything, no matter the source. My routine is: 2 days fridge + 3 days freezer + 2 days fridge + 1 day outside (considering conditions are reasonable), before putting them back in the wineador.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I keep everything between 16-18ºC all year round, so I don't freeze due to the Summer high temperatures, it's just for safety and piece of mind.

[john007]

I never freeze, probably never will. I did once many years ago. Didn't seem worth the effort, and it felt wrong to do it. My freezer smells funny idk. I keep the gars in a temperature controlled environment under 70 degrees Fahrenheit that gives me piece of mind. 

But at the same time I get why people do it. I guess I'm just too lazy.

[john007]

Oh and great looking lighter, love the soft flame wish I had one. My cc thanks you for the motivation. Lol.

[Jimmy_jack]

I also freeze everything, no matter the source. My routine is: 2 days fridge + 3 days freezer + 2 days fridge + 1 day outside (considering conditions are reasonable), before putting them back in the wineador.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I keep everything between 16-18ºC all year round, so I don't freeze due to the Summer high temperatures, it's just for safety and piece of mind.

I'm in the south east of the USA. Temp in my home is usually 72-80. Hard to keep it below that and not go broke.


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[Jimmy_jack]

So I made the mistake of firing up one of the RJ Cedros (OEP AGO 15). Like a child I couldn't wait. Way way way to damp. Black charred end, very difficult draw. 

Then I thought, it's a good opportunity to bust it open and help alleviate any concerns about real vs. fake. 

Opened it by unrolling,  and deconstructing it. What did I find.....? Entubada rolled, straight longfiller tobacco ? Sure, a counterfeiter may know how but why would they take the time? 

I think it's the real McCoy. Just need to let them settle for a few months.

[TheMonk]

1 hour ago, Jimmy_jack said:

I'm in the south east of the USA. Temp in my home is usually 72-80. Hard to keep it below that and not go broke.


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I see. Well, if you manage to get a certain room at a temp of 72 to 75, I'd still let them rest something like twelve hours before putting them back in the humidor, higher then that can be a bit much, specially considering they just came out of the fridge. If that were the case, I'd probably would just leave them for a few hours, before going in the wineador. With that temp, I'm assuming you have a wineador or some other solution to control temp?

[SCgarman]

I have a commercial grade stand up freezer in my basement. It runs at a constant -10 below zero F.

All incoming cigars go in there for 48 hours, as at these temps any beetle eggs will most certainly be destroyed.

Get yourself a freezer thermometer and place cigars in the coldest spot, if using the refrigerator freezer.

[Philc2001]

Quarantine for 4-6 weeks at temps above 70df, and then introduce them to the community. Just my $0.02. 

[Jimmy_jack]

I mm going the low slow route. Freezing for a few days, then into the humidor. It's just as well. I got some cedar racks/trays today and they need to go into the humidor. Let RH balance.


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[lonederranger]

Quarantine for 4-6 weeks at temps above 70df, and then introduce them to the community. Just my $0.02. 

That's what I do. Freezing is a bit of a stoopid thing to do IMO. Given that we know that water crystallises and grows under freezing conditions it seems fairly sure that cells will be broken and oil spilled. For me freezing is a last resort used to rescue cigars that have been infested. I had a box from a pal with a creepy crawly in it, I saw the bugger walking around in there. I don't know what it was, it was translucent but may have been a young beetle. I froze that box.

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, lonederranger said:

That's what I do. Freezing is a bit of a stoopid thing to do IMO. Given that we know that water crystallises and grows under freezing conditions it seems fairly sure that cells will be broken and oil spilled. For me freezing is a last resort used to rescue cigars that have been infested. I had a box from a pal with a creepy crawly in it, I saw the bugger walking around in there. I don't know what it was, it was translucent but may have been a young beetle. I froze that box.

FYI, Habanos S.A. freezes all cigars destined for export in Havana.

So, are they "stoopid" (correct spelling: STUPID) too?

 

[Smallclub]

4 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

FYI, Habanos S.A. freezes all cigars destined for export in Havana.

 

Not only HSA. Some of the biggest importers add a "2nd layer".

[Philc2001]

15 minutes ago, NYgarman said:

FYI, Habanos S.A. freezes all cigars destined for export in Havana.

So, are they "stoopid" (correct spelling: STUPID) too?

 

(liked!) Is that a documented fact about Habanos S.A. freezing their exports? I was not aware of that.

  

[El Presidente]

12 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

(liked!) Is that a documented fact about Habanos S.A. freezing their exports? I was not aware of that.

  

HSA been doing it since 2005. Guanabacoa warehouse. It is only for export stock.  Do a quick search on the forum and you will find pics of the facility and some good information. 

I have seen beetle holes (and beetle dead) over the past decade in boxes of cigars incoming from PCC (via Havana), but I have not seen a beetle breakout in any box. 

 

[gweilgi]

8 hours ago, El Presidente said:

HSA been doing it since 2005. Guanabacoa warehouse. It is only for export stock.  Do a quick search on the forum and you will find pics of the facility and some good information. 

I have seen beetle holes (and beetle dead) over the past decade in boxes of cigars incoming from PCC (via Havana), but I have not seen a beetle breakout in any box. 

 

Generally speaking, my faith in the Socialist approach to quality control in Cuba is less than total so I do freeze whatever I buy.  

Moreover, not every manufacturer in every country takes such precautions, which means that even previously frozen cigars become vulnerable to infestation when stored in the same warehouse and shop humidor as untreated cigars.  Most big importers will routinely store cigars from had a dozen country and dog only knows how many dozens of manufacturers, so that is a real risk factor, IMO.

I've seen a few boxes with beetle holes over the years, and I've witnessed three outbreaks of beetles at a B&M merchant (a casa de cabanas, no less).  The first was traced to an infested box of non-Cubans (CAO, if memory serves).  The second was due to a reckless arsehole who broke the rules ("you are only permitted to store cigars bought from us") and popped some dodgy Montecristos bought in Spain into his locker -- that one cost the merchant a mid-range five-figure sum and I myself lost around 8,000 Euros' worth of well-aged cigars, including a couple of boxes of Bolivar Gold Medals, RA 898 and other rarities.  And the last one originated, sad to say, with a box of HdM that had come straight from Cuba via the importer.  The CdH manager now freezes everything that comes onto the premises -- trust is fine, but when one undetected stowaway with a particular resistance to freezing can destroy not only massive amounts of stock but also the trust of the customers, the added measures are probably not misplaced....

 

[Fugu]

You are bothering about beetles destroying your sticks but don't notice how the heavy vacuum-packaging has done a good deal on risking your wrappers already? Next order ask your "new source" to not vac your singles. Not necessary at all. I never get the idea why people think cigars would need vac-packaging. You may suction out excessive air, ok, but that's really all that may (but not need to) be done.

 

As to the freezing issue, which seems like popping up every fortnight: In-depth discussion - also on "socialist" company management - to be found here:

and here

and on socialist quality control, here

 

[Smallclub]

6 hours ago, gweilgi said:

 Most big importers will routinely store cigars from had a dozen country and dog only knows how many dozens of manufacturers, so that is a real risk factor, IMO.

 

Can you name one big importer of habanos who stores cigars from various provenances in the same warehouse?

And, what is a "casa de cabanas"?

[garbandz]

Piece of mind...........

[Jimmy_jack]

2 hours ago, Fugu said:

You are bothering about beetles destroying your sticks but don't notice how the heavy vacuum-packaging has done a good deal on risking your wrappers already? Next order ask your "new source" to not vac your singles. Not necessary at all. I never get the idea why people think cigars would need vac-packaging. You may suction out excessive air, ok, but that's really all that may (but not need to) be done.

 

As to the freezing issue, which seems like popping up every fortnight: In-depth discussion - also on "socialist" company management - to be found here:

and here

and on socialist quality control, here

 

Never considered the vacuum pack a risk, ill take your advice. And apologies for the redundant question.

[PigFish]

A few of points.

When I ship cigars (rarely) I put them in a vacuum bag. The hows and whys are simple. First I only pull a light vacuum and remove a lot of the air, the balloon effect air. In this way I know that the cigars are air tight and water tight, they don't shift and are protected like they would be if stuffed into a box-pressed configuration. In any event, this does not keep water vapor from being baked out of the cigar. That all depends on temperature. What it does do as well, is seal in my ratio of tobacco to water. Even if water migrates, the ratio remains the same. Regardless, I would suggest removing them from the bag as soon as possible. The bag, any bag won't stop water migration and that is what will likely make your cigar taste bad.

About H SA and socialism/communism. I find it interesting that few address the fact that the joint venture of H SA has no rights to direct Tabacuba to DO anything. Direction of the actual tobacco company, is wholly controlled by the powers that be on the island. They are of course partially owned by Tabacuba as is some interest in every distributorship. It is a true monopoly. Personally I see the private owners of H SA more as a victim than as a partner but that is just my opinion. When those of you hang all the mistakes on H SA, I believe you do them an injustice, not that they too don't make mistakes. H SA does not own the tobacco, farms, labor or island. The communist government of Cuba owns all that stuff, and they are not surrendering power over it to anyone or any partner. By the way... Cuba is (IMHO) a 3rd world country! They own the whole mess down there, their successes and their failures. So the point is, the Cuban government owns Tabacuba, not part but all of it! Draw your own conclusions!

My guess is that the private owner partners of H SA pay their bills on time! You will notice that they very rarely have the same problems that plague Tabacuba. You don't here of their private brands having these issues all the time? They seem to pump out their lousy cigars and cigarettes without a hitch. Why is that? Could it be that many of you are blaming the wrong partner?

Water ruining cigars! Well it certainly can do that. But how about freezing? Well folks you should remember that if you have capillary water in your cigars they are not long for the world anyway! Mold is going to or is already growing on them. Yet, as a properly stored hygroscopic substance they don't contain capillary water, but individual water molecules bonded to the tobacco. This is far different than freezing meat or vegetable matter for your consumption where the expansion of water can be a problem. These are wet items with high water activity levels. You will do no more damage to your cigars from a freezing water perspective than you would beef jerky! Cigars are low water activity products. Food for thought!

-Piggy