Help with Variance in Humidity in Wineador

[HoyoFan]

Hey guys, I've got a Newair C100 cigar fridge which I love. However my humidity is drastically different at the top and bottom. 

Top is 62% (which I want)
Bottom is 70%

I've got an electric fan sitting in the top shelf blowing air down on a timer every hour. 

And .5lbs of HF 62% beads on the bottom.

I'd like to get the bottom down closer to the low 60s.

Any recommendations?

[PigFish]

Your cooler is drying the space closest to the top. This is a design problem! Remember, once your cooler runs, it will continue to dry the space near it until it reaches a temperature above the dew point. This is called overshoot! Then, when the cooling plate is wet, all the time it increases in temperature it will put water back into the space near it (called uncontrolled evaporation) and you will get a wet space!

These are design flaws coming to the light of day!

Take a fan and move the air from top to bottom or vice versa. Avoid allowing the fan to blow on the cooling coil, that will cause further problems.

This might aid your problem but will not likely fix your cooler. Exposed wet, dry, cold space to the inner of your project is your problem, it is likely exacerbated by some controls and other design issues. My solution may help it, but it will never cure the baseline design issues.

Best of luck on your project! -the Pig

[backbone]

How long have you had it?

Did you "season it" like the directions said?  If so, that may be some of the issues (too much water vapor in the environment) as well as what PF shared as far as air circulation.

If you put too much water on the beads, they will have more rh than the "62%" as sold.  I had to pull my beads out and let them dry out after I loaded them up with water.

What cubic feet is your cooler?  You may need more beads for the space you have.

Why not run the fan continuously?

What temp are you trying to keep the cooler at?

 

[backbone]

40 minutes ago, PigFish said:

Your cooler is drying the space closest to the top. This is a design problem! Remember, once your cooler runs, it will continue to dry the space near it until it reaches a temperature above the dew point. This is called overshoot! Then, when the cooling plate is wet, all the time it increases in temperature it will put water back into the space near it (called uncontrolled evaporation) and you will get a wet space!

These are design flaws coming to the light of day!

Take a fan and move the air from top to bottom or vice versa. Avoid allowing the fan to blow on the cooling coil, that will cause further problems.

This might aid your problem but will not likely fix your cooler. Exposed wet, dry, cold space to the inner of your project is your problem, it is likely exacerbated by some controls and other design issues. My solution may help it, but it will never cure the baseline design issues.

Best of luck on your project! -the Pig

On a TE cooler, isn't the cooling coil on the outside of the cooler?

Thanks

[PigFish]

2 minutes ago, backbone said:

On a TE cooler, isn't the cooling coil on the outside of the cooler?

Thanks

That would not do you much good... -LOL (forgive my funning you).

No mate, the cooling coil (plate on a TE) is inside and the heating coil (plate) where the heat goes from the cool side is on the outside. Your system has two sides, opposite each other, one hot, one cold depending on the polarity of the DC. You reverse the current and one plate (that was cold) gets hot and the other the opposite. TE, non diode controlled are bidirectional.

Cheers! -P

[backbone]

Hahaha, I get it now.  Thanks.

 

[HoyoFan]

Thanks guys, I've currently got the fan moving air from the top to the bottom. The beads are on the bottom and are bone dry. I'm wondering if I should close up the drain plug (its small) at the bottom.

Good point about running the fan continuously @backbone, I might try that

[Blazer]

I plugged my hole, hmmm that doesn't look good in print, but it did nothing to alter the RH in the cooler. I had the same issue as you with a very similar top-bottom difference. I bought a small fan, put it in the bottom and now have a lot less spread in RH between top and bottom. However the RH is still a lot higher than I would like. The promise of "a rock sold 65/65" has not been achieved and I've given up on trying to get to that mythical ratio that so many here have supposedly reached.

[HoyoFan]

2 hours ago, Blazer said:

I plugged my hole, hmmm that doesn't look good in print, but it did nothing to alter the RH in the cooler. I had the same issue as you with a very similar top-bottom difference. I bought a small fan, put it in the bottom and now have a lot less spread in RH between top and bottom. However the RH is still a lot higher than I would like. The promise of "a rock sold 65/65" has not been achieved and I've given up on trying to get to that mythical ratio that so many here have supposedly reached.

Thanks Blaze! I moved my fan down to the bottom and hoping that will help fix things. Is your fan simply blowing upwards? Also, is it running on a timer or constantly?

[SloppyJ]

I too plugged my hole (lel). I have 2lbs of beads spread throughout the bottom, middle and top in tupperware containers. I leave them about half charged or less and try to give them a lot of surface area to work. I only have one digi hygrometer that I keep on the middle rack to monitor. Let's be honest here, there's no way to achieve a perfect harmonious balance of RH & Temp as they are highly variable. I'm content with my setup knowing that I'm doing what I can to smooth out that frequency curve of fluctuations. I keep mine half charged because I live in a very humid environment where it's more likely that any air entering the system will be at a higher RH than what I'm trying to achieve.  

 

I keep my cooler set at 67F on the thermostat and that keeps the actual internal temp around 65F. I just recently added a few boxes which has thrown off my equilibrium as they need to balance out. Before the boxes I was anywhere between 61-66% RH depending on when I checked. After adding the boxes I'm between 59-63% RH. I'm my world, that's close enough.  I'm still planning on buying one of those remote sensors that records temp and RH and study how my system truly works. I'm afraid that after I do that, I'm going to try and chase down anything I can do to help and spend too much time worrying that my cigars are swinging within 3% RH and lose sight of the fact that they are smoking well enough. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. 

[Blazer]

2 hours ago, PadronFan said:

Thanks Blaze! I moved my fan down to the bottom and hoping that will help fix things. Is your fan simply blowing upwards? Also, is it running on a timer or constantly?

I had it on a timer, but every time I took a look at the hygros nothing changed, so I now have it running all the time. 

[Philc2001]

A project I abandoned way back was to create a natural air flow in my wineador. I abandoned it because I have no fabrication skills and few tools for the job.

The idea was to put in an insulted wall in front of the back wall, forming a 1-2" cavity between the back wall (with the coolant running through it), and the interior of the fridge. There would be venting at the top and bottom of the insulated wall. The idea was when the compressor runs, cooling the back wall, the cool air falls to the bottom creating low pressure at the top, which pulls warm humid air into the cavity, thereby creating circulation top to bottom by convection. I did mock it up and tested it briefly, but was not happy with the flimsy setup. It did work somewhat, but not as good as I hoped.


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[HoyoFan]

I've had the fan running on the bottom, blowing upwards for the whole day. Curious to come home tonight and check how it's doing. I'm wondering if placing additional beads on the top shelf will help.

Not looking to get a perfect balance by any means. Just want to get the bottom RH down into the low to mid 60s

[TheMonk]

Not looking to get a perfect balance by any means. Just want to get the bottom RH down into the low to mid 60s

Even if the bottom RH drops to around 55%, you shouldn't have any problem, specially if you're storing them inside wooden boxes - some people actually store cigars for long term ageing at that RH.

[HoyoFan]

For the guys keeping their fan on the bottom, does it make a difference if the beads are on top or bottom?

[backbone]

I have a variance as well.  Top is 60rh and bottom is 64rh.  I have two fans blowing up constantly and it doesn't seem to change anything. https://www.amazon.com/AC-Infinity-AIRPLATE-Cooling-Cabinets/dp/B009CO543S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1472827682&sr=8-3&keywords=entertainment+center+fans

I have had one pound of beads in the bottom and one pound on the top shelf. 

I am going to put them all in the bottom and see if it will pull some humidity from the bottom level.

 

[HoyoFan]

Cool. I have a variable speed fan at the bottom which is kind of nice. Had a knob so you can change the flow of air. I'm going to try turning it up slightly to see if that helps

[Blazer]

2 hours ago, PadronFan said:

Cool. I have a variable speed fan at the bottom which is kind of nice. Had a knob so you can change the flow of air. I'm going to try turning it up slightly to see if that helps

Sounds like we have the same fan. I actually turned mine down because I created the exact reverse RH ratio in my cooler. Now, it seems to be fairly even, but still not where I'd like it.

[HoyoFan]

@Blazer are your beads on the bottom or top? Just trying to figure out what's the right location for what. Really need a chemist to come in and give us a lesson on humidity air flow

[MahDooRow]

Heavy air/higher humidity settling at the bottom of wineadors seems to be a common problem, my wineador included.  Rather than using a fan to equalize rH, I decided to add a few 69% Boveda packs at the top.  This method is working well.  The delta between the bottom and the top is now 2%-3%.  I keep my boxes on the bottom and middle shelves, and my singles are at the top.        

[HoyoFan]

What if I just move my 62% beads all up to the top shelf

[MahDooRow]

If you have the standard CC100 setup with the drawer on top that will probably work.  Give it a try, keep the door closed for 2-3 days and see if the rH evens out.  Once you determine the best placement for the beads you may also find that 62% rH can be achieved with less than 1/2 lb.

[Blazer]

On September 2, 2016 at 1:51 PM, PadronFan said:

@Blazer are your beads on the bottom or top? Just trying to figure out what's the right location for what. Really need a chemist to come in and give us a lesson on humidity air flow

I'm using kitty litter. I have a huge tray on the bottom of the cooler and a small tray in the middle and top drawers.

[backbone]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 7:29 PM, PadronFan said:

What if I just move my 62% beads all up to the top shelf

I took my beads, put them in a zip lock bag with a hygrometer in there and turns out 1lb of my beads were really at 65rh. I Let them dry out for a couple of days and now they are at 61rh.  Thanks Pigfish for the idea.

So you may want to try the same thing and see what your beads rh are actually at right now.  That may be your variance problem.

[HoyoFan]

I took my beads, put them in a zip lock bag with a hygrometer in there and turns out 1lb of my beads were really at 65rh. I Let them dry out for a couple of days and now they are at 61rh.  Thanks Pigfish for the idea.

So you may want to try the same thing and see what your beads rh are actually at right now.  That may be your variance problem.

Great idea thanks