Cigars vs FDA – The Lawsuit Has Been Filed

[El Presidente]

 

Good luck to them. I wish them every success 

http://thecigarauthority.com/looking-lawsuit-vs-fda/

[NSXCIGAR]

Good news indeed and certainly expected. Hoping for a favorable outcome, but this is a case that may go all the way to the Supreme Court and take many years to resolve. I hope this is the case that confirms the FDA's propensity for overstepping their bounds.

[gweilgi]

Observing the relentless turn of the regulatory screws on several continents for many years now, I do believe that cigar makers, merchants and aficionados made a huge strategic mistake.  We never really put together the sort of campaign required to distinguish ourselves properly in the minds of the public, the activists and legislators from the cigarette market.  So now all forms of consumption -- cigars, pipes, snuff -- are lumped in under the heading of Big Bad Tobacco, and regulated as such.  The notion of "all tobacco is the same, all tobacco is bad tobacco" is too deeply anchored, I fear, to give us any sort of room to enjoy our pastime.  

[sactochris]

It's a war on the vaping industry and premium cigars are the collateral damage.

[gweilgi]

Just now, Bster said:

All too true unfortunately. When more countries realise just how much money can be made by demonising tobacco, the more will likely pick up the anti-tobacco flag. It's so much easier for them to lug all tobacco products in together, irrespective of the fact that cigars, pipe tobacco and others aren't inhaled etc.

Even there we could make a decent case.

The Powers That Be need to be shown that there is another side to the economic case put forward by the anti-tobacco lobby.  Healthcare costs are mostly down to cigarettes, and the demographic of cigar smokers is such that most of us make private healthcare provisions.  Savings in healthcare mean bigger pensions bills as people live longer.  Excessive taxation leads to reduced tax receipts as more people either stop entirely, switch to overseas merchants or buy from smugglers which increases state expenditure on enforcement.  If governments want to continue to milk the golden goose, they cannot turn the screw too tightly -- that should be our message.

Beyond that, a case could be made to reduce exposure to healthcare costs and raise even more revenue.  Make smoking venues take out private healthcare for their employees.  Mandate special smoking rooms with proper ventilation, the construction and maintenance of which would create tax-paying jobs for the long term.  Let local governments sell or auction a set number of annual smoking licences for venues to compete over.  All of that would raise revenue while reducing expenditure ... surely what they want?

[SCgarman]

3 hours ago, sactochris said:

It's a war on the vaping industry and premium cigars are the collateral damage.

It's a war on all tobacco products. This is government nanny state overreach at its worst. I pray this lawsuit overturns all these FDA proposals, or the cigar industry at least in the USA will be almost non existent. It will not only eliminate thousands of jobs and small businesses in the CONUS,  but many jobs in the tobacco growing countries and factories. Very bad. 

[Professor Twain]

I don't put much hope in a lawsuit stopping this. More likely is a legislative exception for premium cigars. http://thecigarauthority.com/seven-us-senators-question-fda-final-rule/

[gweilgi]

4 hours ago, NYgarman said:

It's a war on all tobacco products. This is government nanny state overreach at its worst. I pray this lawsuit overturns all these FDA proposals, or the cigar industry at least in the USA will be almost non existent. It will not only eliminate thousands of jobs and small businesses in the CONUS,  but many jobs in the tobacco growing countries and factories. Very bad. 

Overreach?  To be sure.

Worst?  Nah, we haven't seen that yet, not by a long shot.  The anti crusaders are now switching their attention to fast food, sugar, fat and anything else that might distract us from our solemn civic duty of living on steamed tofu washed down with bean sprout smoothies and five yoga sessions weekly.  Alcohol is already heavily regulated and taxed, and it's getting worse (#sydneylockoutlaws).  Initiatives against trans-fats, fast foods and large helpings of liquid candy (aka "Coca-Cola") are taken straight from the anti-tobacco playbook.  Fast cars are equally in the cross-hairs.  I'm not sure what pleasures will be left to our kids ... Pokemon?

[wabashcr]

Hoping for the best, but it's an uphill battle, to be sure.  The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act essentially gives the FDA the authority to regulate tobacco as it sees fit.  Plenty of cigarette companies have challenged the FDA over this in court, and the courts have generally ended up siding with the FDA.  It's going to be very difficult for these litigants to convince the court that the FDA has exceeded its authority here.  

Furthermore, the FDA obviously knew there would be legal challenges after their roll out.  This isn't their first rodeo.  I'd be surprised if they've left any of their regulations vulnerable to legal challenges.  You never know when a government agency is involved, but my guess is they know these regulations will stand up in court.

I understand that filing this lawsuit is part of these organizations' responsibility, even if their chances of success are remote.  Maybe they get an injunction along the way that buys some more time.  The better long term hope is for congress to carve out an exemption for cigars.  The wheels on that have been turning long before the FDA even announced its new regulations.  These same advocacy groups have been lobbying pretty hard in congress for an exemption, and there certainly seems to be some support in the house and senate.  It wouldn't happen until sometime in 2017, due to the legislative calendar.  But there is a fair chance of a reprieve through congress.

[SCgarman]

7 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Overreach?  To be sure.

Worst?  Nah, we haven't seen that yet, not by a long shot.  The anti crusaders are now switching their attention to fast food, sugar, fat and anything else that might distract us from our solemn civic duty of living on steamed tofu washed down with bean sprout smoothies and five yoga sessions weekly.  Alcohol is already heavily regulated and taxed, and it's getting worse (#sydneylockoutlaws).  Initiatives against trans-fats, fast foods and large helpings of liquid candy (aka "Coca-Cola") are taken straight from the anti-tobacco playbook.  Fast cars are equally in the cross-hairs.  I'm not sure what pleasures will be left to our kids ... Pokemon?

Soda is already in the crosshairs. Google Philadelphia Soda Tax. Already in effect there. Next will be coffee, liquor, charcoal and gas grills, steaks, horizontal mambo maneuvers in the bedroom with the wife, once they get their foot in the crack of the door they knock it down!

The USA needs a revolution. Looks like about every 200 years is the time period to overthrow another tyrannical government.

 

[NSXCIGAR]

13 hours ago, NYgarman said:

It's a war on all tobacco products...

If only.

E-cigarettes aren't even tobacco products, yet the FDA is attempting to regulate them as such using the Tobacco Control Act! They might as well try and regulate Big Macs under the same statute. It's outrageous, not to mention the TCA itself (as well as any federal law prohibiting or classifying anything) is unconstitutional, although that will never be challenged.

If anything, the FDA should not have the power to prohibit or control anything. At the very least, it should simply make recommendations to congress who should then have to pass or amend a law for each drug or substance they want to regulate. Then at least there would be some open debate about a substance's merits and detriments and not unilaterally decided by a handful of FDA bigwigs. The FDA chose to include premium cigars because they could and they have no accountability. Members of congress do have some accountability and can be contacted directly. 

[SCgarman]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

If only.

E-cigarettes aren't even tobacco products, yet the FDA is attempting to regulate them as such using the Tobacco Control Act! They might as well try and regulate Big Macs under the same statute. It's outrageous, not to mention the TCA itself (as well as any federal law prohibiting or classifying anything) is unconstitutional, although that will never be challenged.

If anything, the FDA should not have the power to prohibit or control anything. At the very least, it should simply make recommendations to congress who should then have to pass or amend a law for each drug or substance they want to regulate. Then at least there would be some open debate about a substance's merits and detriments and not unilaterally decided by a handful of FDA bigwigs. The FDA chose to include premium cigars because they could and they have no accountability. Members of congress do have some accountability and can be contacted directly. 

I hear you, the FDA bigshots are not even elected officials like those in congress. And they don't give a damn about how many jobs here and abroad will be lost with their ruling regarding tobacco products AND the vaping industry. They have a cushy little 8-4 desk job, and after 25 years or so collect a nice pension courtesy of us taxpayers.

[PigFish]

Don't get your hopes up people. You may wish to do a little research on the genesis of this, it has been to the Supreme Court before. I actually wrote an article on this but did not want to pick at the scab once more so I never posted it. Frankly, like most of my writing, I like to put a finger on those responsible, and my political position is all over the article. As usual it is backed up with facts!

The Supreme Court ruled on this once already, and I might add, they have once already protected us from the FDA's overreach.  Yet in 2010, that group of leftists that had a recent majority rule in Congress, voted and passed the "Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act" specifically to surrender this power to the FDA (and grant the specific authority causing the Supreme Court reversal) and win the war on tobacco that they have waged for decades... This is a war that they started in the Clinton administration. The left never gives up!

Your votes have consequences. As a cigar smoker you are once more paying the price for allowing the "Left" to run the country!

Want your rights back, dismantle the left! -Piggy