Answer this one for me: Current Cubans and Cuban Davidoff

[El Presidente]

I had a lovely e-mail come through that I will defer to experienced "vintage" smoking members to answer or partly answer for me. 

While I have smoked my share of Cuban Davidoff over the years (the most recent being a 3000 (Ninfas) just a few weeks back) my tastes are naturally swayed to my palate. By the way...it was a brilliant cigar. 

 

Rob

I am hoping you can help. 

At my sons graduation I was fortunate to have a dear friend gift me a Cuban Davidoff 4000. He is a vintage cigar collector and smoker whom you know.  

I managed to smoke the cigar this past weekend in solitude which allowed me the time to reflect on the journey of my son to graduation as well as the sheer act of generosity by ******.

Now I am not a man of excessive means. This experience may well be the first and last Cuban Davidoff I will ever smoke. That in itself is enough to bring a tear to my eye. The cigar was perfection in terms of aesthetics, draw, immense complexity and body. 

So to the nature of my question. 

What Cuban cigars today with say 7 years of age would come closest to the flavour profile of a Cuban Davidoff?

I know it is a tough question but I just have to ask. 

 

I would love to have your input 

[Fumadoro]

Wow, that is a tall order!  I have only smoked a single Cuban Davidoff Tubos, which is a Laguito No. 2.  I'm going to assume that it has the same blend as the true Davidoff No. 2 (please correct me if I am wrong), and I'm not sure in the slightest how it compares to the 1000 series blend.  Here are my loosely organized notes on it:

"Construction is really great, even pack, minimal veins, extremely tight seams. Smell off the foot and wrapper is mostly sweet musk, cedar, and surprisingly, a touch of spearmint. The cold draw mirrors this experience.  First third opens super creamy and mild, but this quickly changes. More sweet musk, a fair amount of cinnamon on the palate and room aroma, fruity Cuban retrohale. Surprisingly awesome first third.  Second third is very similar to the first, just with slightly increased body. The final third is starting to get a little bitter. I'll see what a purge can do.  Purge definitely helps and brought it back to its happier form in the first two thirds still with increasing body and more cinnamon spice. Nubbed it!"

From that experience and for my palate, the Por Larrañaga Montecarlos I have from OEB FEB 2007 match the Davidoff most notably in regards to the creamy mouthfeel, spicy cinnamon character, and herbal components (though not spearmint specifically).  I think that the Montecarlos are fuller bodied overall and don't have that super mild beginning which allows for the amazing transition through the first third and the gradual crescendo that continues to the end.  Additionally, I think the Montecarlos can be plagued by some construction issues that would make me hold back on this recommendation.  The Montecarlos has some of the DNA of the Davidoff, but lacks the height of refinement even after 9 years of rest.  Maybe even more time will allow the similarities to grow.

On another marca, I have heard rumors that the Cohiba Linea 1492 was meant to replace the void left by Davidoff with them being a slightly milder addition to Cuba's ultra premium echelon.  The timeline fits well in any case with Davidoff officially cutting ties in 1991 and the first run of Siglos coming out in 1994.

Hope that all helps and wasn't too rambling!

[maxcjs0101]

Would like to know that too. 

I've never touched or even seen a Cuban Davidoff (except on Instagram).

[RijkdeGooier]

The now discontinued Taino from ErdM would be a good substitute.

[Puros Y Vino]

Great question.  I'm surprised it hasn't come up before.  Maybe it has and I never noticed it.  With that said.  I've smoked at least 8 Cuban Davidoff's.  The No 1, No 2, Dom Perignon, Chateau Margaux and Chateau LaTour.  I've never smoked one when they were fresh back in the day.  So I have zero reference points on what they smoked like ROTT.  My experience is limited to the aged/vintage samples.  The oldest being the No 1 from 1970.  Most others were from 1982, 1985.

I've written reviews on the Dom P and No 2 for those of you that are interested.

As for what modern day equivalent there is to the Cuban Davidoff's, I can only speculate.  I don't consider myself an experienced expert on the matter, given that I only started smoking cigars in 2009.  Nonetheless, I'll give my impressions.  No warranty implied if you decide to act upon my findings.

Of the Davidoff's I've smoked, they've all been very enjoyable with the only "disappointment" being the Dom Perignon.  It was too light.  Much of the flavours I experienced were very interesting, though muted with the passage of time I'd guess.  That particular cigar if I were to peg it to a modern, available cigar. I'd say it's closest cousin would be the Trinidad Fundadores with some age on it.

The 1970 No 1 I smoked was a glorious cigar.  The first half was floral and loaded with some nice hints of cedar and baking spice.  To my palate, very similar to a Mag 50. The second half was a different beast.  Very rich and bold flavours.  Leather, coffee grounds, nutmeg and toasty tobacco.  IMO, that last half was similar to a good, 5+ year old Esplendido.

My one and only Margaux was somewhat wasted as I smoked it in a very smoke laden room at a big Montreal herf years ago.  I do recall, cinnamon and cedar before my olfactory and taste senses were overcome and my eyes were stinging.  

I've smoked about four Chateau LaTours and those have all been brilliant.  I've never sat down and reviewed one though.  I have two left so I'll set one aside and jot down my thoughts. Offhand from memory, they were medium bodied cigars with a good amount of cedar, cinnamon, coffee and roasted nut flavours throughout.  If that's enough for you to go on, great! If not, the best match for those I'd say would be either one of the following.  A good Monte 2. I say "good" because in my experience, 50% of the M2's I've smoked were nothing great.  The other half though, excellent.  Super creamy, smooth cigars.  If I dwell on the good M2's and imagine them with 5-10 years of age, that's pretty close to what I get out of the LaTours.  I can also make some comparisons to a few other vintage smokes I've enjoyed.  I have Sir Winstons from 1975, some HU No 4's from 1970/71 and some Diplomaticos No 7 from 1988.  I'd say they share similar profiles to the vintage Davidoff's I've smoked.  Only one of those is still around so that's little consolation.   A good ERDM Choix supreme has some of the qualities of the Davidoff No 2 I smoked.  This is my opinion.  Other than that, I step aside to let more experienced smokers chime in.

 

[Fugu]

10 hours ago, Fumadoro said:

On another marca, I have heard rumors that the Cohiba Linea 1492 was meant to replace the void left by Davidoff with them being a slightly milder addition to Cuba's ultra premium echelon.  The timeline fits well in any case with Davidoff officially cutting ties in 1991 and the first run of Siglos coming out in 1994.

Hope that all helps and wasn't too rambling!

... actually, a bit more than just a rumour, according to MRN this had been confirmed by Adriano Martínez Rius.

As to the ligada, I can't comment. Anyone in the know perhaps, as to whether the Siglo-series is based on the same or a similar blend, resp. tobacco? Or even if there was at all an intention mimicing the Château-Series blend-wise?

[Bolismoker]

Not that I am an expert by any means. I have had the pleasure of smoking several Davis over the years and loved each of them. I have heard, though not had the pleasure of personal experience, that the ERDM Tainos is the closest. All that aside how about bringing the old Dunhill blend back? What sublime experiences those cigars are/were

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Presidente]

great stuff gents 

[BMWBen]

Interesting, I'm surprised I haven't seen this before

[Dave001]

ive had a few no 1's from the same vintage years of '81 and '85 the 85 was completely muted but had hints of vanilla, on the other hand the  '81 was excellent lots of cream  vanilla grassy and a spicy twang almost fruity flavor it was just marvelous sadly I only had 2 and those are long gone!! if I had to compare another cigar to it today that is tough but im thinking of an aged cohiba lancero about 15+ years  what a great question had me thinking for quite awhile its been so long since I smoked that Davidoff damn wish I had a whole box of those 1981's!!!!!

[Philc2001]

Wow, good question, and very interesting topic.

So, the story I've read a couple of different times is in the late 60's Zino Davidoff specifically selected Hoyo De Monterrey to make their cigars. ERDM was one of the leading brands of the day, so Zino wasn't just subbing out to any cigar maker, he was after the best Cuba had to offer.

This little blurb is from Wikipedia, which may be as dubious as any source:

in the 1940s, the Le Hoyo series (along with the Chateaux series which would later be used to create the Davidoff cigar line) was created for Swiss distributor A. Dürr Co. 

There's more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davidoff

That's all I have. I have smoked one Cuban Davidoff and it was about 20 years ago, so I couldn't possibly help match that flavor to anything today, my memory is not great to start with, but 20-years?!?!  

[BrightonCorgi]

The only Davidoff Cubans I ever smoked regularly were the 

35 minutes ago, Philc2001 said:

That's all I have. I have smoked one Cuban Davidoff and it was about 20 years ago, so I couldn't possibly help match that flavor to anything today, my memory is not great to start with, but 20-years?!?!  

I haven't smoked them in a while, but use to get them for really cheap from some Saudi friends about 20 years ago.  Story was a cigar shop bought as much remaining stock before they were discontinued and they use to give me 5 packs like they were nothing.  El Laguito No.1 size.  Construction was spotty, but I remember them tasting similar to HdM du series cigars...  That was quite a while back.  I sold off a ton of 5 packs and no longer have them.

[stinkhead]

I have one Davidoff 5000 but have yet to smoke it. Not sure what life event I am saving it for sine I'm not sure I can ever find another 

[Dave001]

forgot to mention it I have a 25 yr old box of fonseca no 1's and it kind of also reminds me of the Davidoff no 1 so there you have it a cheap alternative get the fonseca no 1 and age it for 25 yrs!!

[dominattorney]

Interesting information. I have not had the pleasure of coming across any vintage davidoff cigars. You guys must be very resourceful. 

[stinkhead]

9 hours ago, dominattorney said:

Interesting information. I have not had the pleasure of coming across any vintage davidoff cigars. You guys must be very resourceful. 

They can be found, but will cost you serious coin... the one place I know of that has them the singles start at 100 euro per stick

[dominattorney]

16 minutes ago, stinkhead said:

They can be found, but will cost you serious coin... the one place I know of that has them the singles start at 100 euro per stick

I have seen them for sale as well.  Frankly, I don't have the means to be dropping 100 bucks a stick.  I've seen even more outrageous prices for some of the harder to find ones.  It hurts me bad enough to drop 500 on a box of Cohibas--10-25 thousand dollars on a box of cigars is frankly insanity to my mind. 

Interestingly enough, I would say that I have tried a couple of Behike's the were gifted to me by more affluent and well connected friends.  While I enjoyed them very much, I know that for the price, I would rather smoke something else.  I keep telling myself that the vintage Davidoff's are the same, more to make myself feel better than anything else. 

[canadianbeaver]

When I turned 50, a fellow trader and talker on a discussion board sent me this

My exact memory of the taste, smoke etc is limited other than "fantastic". The box, band and stub are in my collectibles cabinet.

I adore other cigars now, 5 years later, but the items are not saved.

CB

[NSXCIGAR]

On 7/12/2016 at 10:15 AM, Bolismoker said:

 All that aside how about bringing the old Dunhill blend back? What sublime experiences those cigars are/were

I myself have always wondered what becomes of the tobacco used for some of these marcas. There were no new brands introduced between 1982 and 1997 when Dunhill, and then Davidoff, were axed. Sure, the Linea 1492 was introduced, but does the Siglo series really utilize any of that tobacco? Cuaba, Robaina and San Cristobal likely don't either. Perhaps Trinidad? 

I guess the secrets of these legendary marcas will die with Cubatabaco officials from that time.

[Puros Y Vino]

5 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I myself have always wondered what becomes of the tobacco used for some of these marcas. There were no new brands introduced between 1982 and 1997 when Dunhill, and then Davidoff, were axed. Sure, the Linea 1492 was introduced, but does the Siglo series really utilize any of that tobacco? Cuaba, Robaina and San Cristobal likely don't either. Perhaps Trinidad? 

I guess the secrets of these legendary marcas will die with Cubatabaco officials from that time.

Rumors is what became of that tobacco.    That some of the Davidoff tobacco turned into the Siglo series and the CoLa.  Cigar Journal had an article where they took a panel of three people and smoked Davidoff No 1's and CoLa's from the years following Davidoff's exit from Cuba.  Can't recall the conclusion, but it wasn't positive IIRC.  As for Dunhill, I remember a rumor on some site that the Dunhill Cabinettas that were left over were rebanded as RyJ Exhibicion No 4's and plopped into 50 cabs.

[cigcars]

              *I bought two vintage Cuban Davidoff's in '98 from one of my suppliers for a break in the cost at only $40 apiece. I only smoked one, and just like our beloved late actor David Carradine had observed about them, it did indeed have the essence of a vanilla milkshake!  The other one I still have, however due to my less than skilled storage abilities the wrapper is good and cracked with the years!  

[NSXCIGAR]

6 hours ago, bundwallah said:

... were rebanded as RyJ Exhibicion No 4's and plopped into 50 cabs.

Aside from the fact that the Cabinettas are Robustos and the RyJ Ex 4 is a Hermosos No 4, I think you mean rebranded--no bands on cabs back then! 

 

[avaldes]

While I don't have extensive Davidoff experience, I do not detect similarities between Siglos and Davidoffs.

What did kind of taste similar was a Presidencia churchill I had the pleasure of smoking quite a few years ago. 

[benfica_77]

I was trying to learn more about cuban davidoffs and came across this great thread. Thought i'd bump it for people to read now!

[Meklown]

Fantastic thread. Maybe an idea for a future Hermanos Always blend?