La Gloria Cubana Medaille d'Or No.2 and No.4

[JohnS]

I was perusing the board today after smoking a La Gloria Cubana Medaille d'Or No.4 (gifted by Steve - thanks, my friend) and I happened to stumble on this topic on the LGC Medaille d'Or No.3. It would be great for these to make a comeback, but alas, they have been discontinued. After finishing the LGC Medaille d'Or No.4, I was thinking how good it would be for the LGC Medaille d'Or No.2 to be available again. The LGC Medaille d'Or No.4 had a nice complexity to it...floral, earthy, fruity and even savoury (with hints of pepper) but I can't help but feel that the LGC Medaille d'Or No.2, being a Dalia (43 ring gauge x 170 mm) would be milder than the No.4 (A Palmita - 32 ring gauge x 152 mm). I certainly enjoyed the No.4 today, but to enjoy its nuances I had to slow right down and not allow the cigar to overheat, it took me 60 minutes (believe it or not!). It's a shame that the LGC Medaille d'Or No.2 has been hard to source for awhile now.

[PapaDisco]

I don't know if the #3 is the answer to that, but I definitely concur with you on the beauty, and struggle, of the #4.  Just finished a couple last week and while they are an absolute delight, they really must be smoked gingerly and with the patience of Job.  The #3 was even skinnier, though a bit longer, but that trim dimension would make it equally susceptible to overheating (if not more so).  What I'd really love is a Corona Gorda, or even Churchill, with a #4 blend 

I've a box of Immensos chilling in my humi, but even with age, I doubt that they're going to taste like a big brother to the #4.  They're just so much bigger, it's hard to imaging that anything close to the same blending took place.

[NSXCIGAR]

I don't think there's any cigar HSA has cut I wouldn't like to see back. Obviously, the MdO#3 ain't coming back. That one's gone, baby gone.  

I don't know what's going on w/ the MdO#2. I fear this one is on the brink of death, as much as I hate to say it. When's the last time it's floated through? I can't recall seeing any 14 or 15 production. I agree, as much as I defend the long skinnies' ability to deliver flavor, I think a larger RG would be a benefit to the LGC profile. There really is a limit to complexity at 32 RG.

HSA really has it out for Lonsdales, and I mean big time. And I simply cannot figure out why. I can understand the <38 RG cuts, although I disagree. Also, I am bewildered at how HSA can just hang some marcas out to dry with one or two vitolas. I find it really, really hard to believe that the only cigar that sells for LGC is a Slim Panetela and the only cigar that sells for Diplomaticos is a Pyramide. 

Every CC lover I know appreciates and is willing to buy Lonsdales. The Monte 1 sells. The Party 898 sells. The PL Encantos did fairly well. I still maintain that HSA cannot make an economic case for eliminating most models. There's no additional resources used to make a certain model (unless it has a unique blend) and it seems to me very easy to tailor production numbers to demand. Also, there are some people whose favorite cigar is the MdO#2. HSA is just alienating those customers. I mean, how many people's favorite Bolivar was the CE, or favorite Dip the #4? Many. Were they worth cutting it? I would say good luck making the case.

 

[Bolismoker]

Love the LGC line. The #4 is a great morning cigar that is a staple in my rotation (had one this morning). The floral notes combined with the honeyed sweetness is outstanding. Still have some MDO #2 left and I have a hard time bringing myself to burn them.  Totally agree about wishing they were more readily available. The Tainos is a bucket list cigar for me. I've never gotten my hands on any but would love to. I adore the LGC profile and relish experiencing what a thicker RG could do to the core profile. 

[gweilgi]

1 hour ago, NSXCIGAR said:

HSA really has it out for Lonsdales, and I mean big time. And I simply cannot figure out why. I can understand the <38 RG cuts, although I disagree. Also, I am bewildered at how HSA can just hang some marcas out to dry with one or two vitolas. I find it really, really hard to believe that the only cigar that sells for LGC is a Slim Panetela and the only cigar that sells for Diplomaticos is a Pyramide. 

Every CC lover I know appreciates and is willing to buy Lonsdales. The Monte 1 sells. The Party 898 sells. The PL Encantos did fairly well. I still maintain that HSA cannot make an economic case for eliminating most models. There's no additional resources used to make a certain model (unless it has a unique blend) and it seems to me very easy to tailor production numbers to demand. Also, there are some people whose favorite cigar is the MdO#2. HSA is just alienating those customers. I mean, how many people's favorite Bolivar was the CE, or favorite Dip the #4? Many. Were they worth cutting it? I would say good luck making the case.

 

Any chance this could be part of a move to get ready for the fall of the embargo?  My impression is that there is a distinct trend in the US towards ever-larger ring gauges, so it may be that the Powers That Be in Cuba have decided to gear up to satisfy that particular market.  

Secondly, just in case this had passed you by: the 2014 RE for Germany was the RA 898 -- a classic in that format if there ever was one, and there are still a few boxes floating around German merchants! (says he, smugly sitting on a couple of boxes)

Also consider that in the long term, it's swings and roundabouts.  Until the 1960's and even into the 70's, it was all about the slim cigar (RG 40-42).  My copy of Zino Davidoff's cigar book, written in that time, does not even mention robustos as a vitola.  So now things swing the other way.  Sooner or later, IMO, fashion will come back to the elegant lonsdales and lanceros we miss now...

Just my tuppence..

 

[NSXCIGAR]

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Any chance this could be part of a move to get ready for the fall of the embargo?  My impression is that there is a distinct trend in the US towards ever-larger ring gauges, so it may be that the Powers That Be in Cuba have decided to gear up to satisfy that particular market.  

Secondly, just in case this had passed you by: the 2014 RE for Germany was the RA 898 -- a classic in that format if there ever was one, and there are still a few boxes floating around German merchants! (says he, smugly sitting on a couple of boxes)

Also consider that in the long term, it's swings and roundabouts.  Until the 1960's and even into the 70's, it was all about the slim cigar (RG 40-42).  My copy of Zino Davidoff's cigar book, written in that time, does not even mention robustos as a vitola.  So now things swing the other way.  Sooner or later, IMO, fashion will come back to the elegant lonsdales and lanceros we miss now...

Just my tuppence..

 

The Embargo is a non-factor at this point. Almost all of the new models introduced in the last 15 years have had 48+ RG, and it's no secret that the North American preference is for large RG. The embargo is irrelevant--most who want CCs in the US can get them and are getting them. The Embargo ain't ending anytime soon, and then there's the new FDA regulations to deal with on top of that. The North American market has been open for the most part for some time.

That being said, the discontinuing of vitolas in general has always baffled me. Outside of eliminating redundancies (which HSA doesn't even do--see RyJ's 5 marevas) there's simply no need to completely discontinue a model--particularly when it brings a marca's lineup down to one or two total models. 

The argument that HSA needs more tobacco for larger RG cigars doesn't really justify killing slow-selling models. The slower they sell, the less need to be made, and the problem solves itself. HSA can make any vitola they want any time they want. Just look at how many REs they crank out every year--many with completely new, oddball dimensions. The Petit Robusto has to be one of the dumbest vitolas ever. But they created it and cranked it out.

The trend toward larger RG has been ongoing steadily since the 1980s, and hasn't really let up. I don't forsee a resurgence for the long skinny, or even coronas, lonsdales or corona gordas. 

 

[Fugu]

14 hours ago, JohnS said:

I certainly enjoyed the No.4 today, but to enjoy its nuances I had to slow right down and not allow the cigar to overheat, it took me 60 minutes (believe it or not!). It's a shame that the LGC Medaille d'Or No.2 has been hard to source for awhile now.

Wow, you are a quick smoker, John. Here's one brief impression of the latest production from another thread in Jan:

On 25/02/2016 at 10:10 PM, Fugu said:

Had another one of that batch last weekend. Smoked it very slowly (inside), and I have to say 1:25 hours of pure bliss. After a week out of the box, a perfect smoke, only very faint notes of youth. Excellent burn (gone out once, when I had to briefly put it down for pouring me a rum), excellent smoke volume, very tasty with a nice crescendo. Medium to full in body. Can't get much better.

If I had to rate it, I'd give it a solid 95 (while of course being subjective, my ratings mainly reflect the amount of pleasure and satisfaction from a smoke).

Def. not a typical morning cigar for me (but I like to smoke the No. 3 on mornings). The No. 4 tends to be a bit more on the earthy side with a good complexity and nice evolution, the No. 2 being the most floral one of the four 'Gold Medals', when properly aged.

 

13 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I don't know what's going on w/ the MdO#2. I fear this one is on the brink of death, as much as I hate to say it. When's the last time it's floated through? I can't recall seeing any 14 or 15 production.

Last production was of 2013/2014 (there was some debate among members as to whether the '14 was the real deal... I'd say def. 'yes').

However, the MdO 2 has always been in discontinuous production and always been hard to come by and not available in all markets. Holding even more for the MdO 2 than for the SW. I can't remember having seen or heard of any '04-'07 production and I think there wasn't any '09, and '12 either (people in the know may chime in). So I wouldn't speak of on the brink to death, as this is rather normal for this vitola not to be seen for a few years.

I rather take it as a good sign, as when the necessary tobacco isn't there, it isn't being made. On the other hand, all these new releases need to use some tobacco that has been used elsewhere previously....

 

 

[NSXCIGAR]

1 minute ago, Fugu said:

...I rather take it as a good sign, as when the necessary tobacco isn't there, it isn't being made. On the other hand, all these new releases need to use some tobacco that has been used elsewhere previously....

I hope you're right in that it's being treated in the same way as the SWs and recent Cohiba. I have no problem with that, as I've said many times before. If you can't make them right, don't make them. But HSA's disdain for lonsdales, and their willingness to take a marca down to one model has me worried.

I also just can't stand the thought of HSA stealing good regular production tobacco for special production...argh. I'd have no problem with special production so long as it doesn't cut into regular production, which it most likely is.

[Fugu]

14 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The Embargo is a non-factor at this point.

I'd second that. And I don't even think HSA/Tabacuba would set any tobacco aside for a potential ending of the embargo. They would sell anyway.

[Fugu]

31 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I hope you're right in that it's being treated in the same way as the SWs and recent Cohiba. I have no problem with that, as I've said many times before. If you can't make them right, don't make them. But HSA's disdain for lonsdales, and their willingness to take a marca down to one model has me worried.

I hope so, too. But who can be sure....

31 minutes ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I also just can't stand the thought of HSA stealing good regular production tobacco for special production...argh. I'd have no problem with special production so long as it doesn't cut into regular production, which it most likely is.

From an interview in Excelencias, HSA Co Luis Sanchez-Harguindey :

You’ve just said it, but how important is for both Habanos S.A. and its distributors the Limited Editions and other specialties in the sales of habanos?

LSH: Consumers of premium cigars love new things. They keep waiting and wishing to be surprised each year, and in that sense it’s our obligation to meet that demand our customers have. On the other hand, it’s in the DNA of Habanos S.A. to have an innovative spirit that truly makes a difference, one that has helped us to develop absolutely new concepts that are now entrenched and highly widespread in the premium cigar market, such as the Limited Editions the Reserve and Grand Reserve or the Regional Editions. A considerable chunk of our sales stems from those specialties, therefore it’s in our best interest to continue innovating in different concepts and proposals, such as Habanos Añejados, of which we’ve just put two new products in the market: Partagás Coronas Gordas Añejados and Hoyo de Monterrey Hermosos No.4.

 

[TomF]

1 hour ago, Fugu said:

Wow, you are a quick smoker, John. Here's one brief impression of the latest production from another thread in Jan:

Def. not a typical morning cigar for me (but I like to smoke the No. 3 on mornings). The No. 4 tends to be a bit more on the earthy side with a good complexity and nice evolution, the No. 2 being the most floral one of the four 'Gold Medals', when properly aged.

 

Last production was of 2013/2014 (there was some debate among members as to whether the '14 was the real deal... I'd say def. 'yes').

However, the MdO 2 has always been in discontinuous production and always been hard to come by and not available in all markets. Holding even more for the MdO 2 than for the SW. I can't remember having seen or heard of any '04-'07 production and I think there wasn't any '09, and '12 either (people in the know may chime in). So I wouldn't speak of on the brink to death, as this is rather normal for this vitola not to be seen for a few years.

I rather take it as a good sign, as when the necessary tobacco isn't there, it isn't being made. On the other hand, all these new releases need to use some tobacco that has been used elsewhere previously....

 

 

I still have half a box left from ULA JUN 14. I'm not smoking any more until they reappear, hopefully they will reappear. Then I'm buying as many as I can.

[gweilgi]

3 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

I hope you're right in that it's being treated in the same way as the SWs and recent Cohiba. I have no problem with that, as I've said many times before. If you can't make them right, don't make them. But HSA's disdain for lonsdales, and their willingness to take a marca down to one model has me worried.

I also just can't stand the thought of HSA stealing good regular production tobacco for special production...argh. I'd have no problem with special production so long as it doesn't cut into regular production, which it most likely is.

 

One thought that springs to mind is cost savings.  Fewer vitolas and fewer marcas means less expense for bands and boxes.  Or consider this: if they have a certain budget for banding and boxing, the more money that is spent on regional and limited editions, the less is left to bad and box the regular line-up.  Yes, the cigars are the main event, but all these small additional costs do mount up to a fair pile of dosh across an entire industry.  Just a thought...

Special production cutting into supplies for the regular production makes sense, alas.  RE and LE runs are more prestigious and command a higher premium, making them more profitable.  Also, the RE vitals being decided on and ordered by individual countries, sales are more predictable.  

[gweilgi]

4 hours ago, NSXCIGAR said:

The Embargo is a non-factor at this point. Almost all of the new models introduced in the last 15 years have had 48+ RG, and it's no secret that the North American preference is for large RG. The embargo is irrelevant--most who want CCs in the US can get them and are getting them. The Embargo ain't ending anytime soon, and then there's the new FDA regulations to deal with on top of that. The North American market has been open for the most part for some time.

That being said, the discontinuing of vitolas in general has always baffled me. Outside of eliminating redundancies (which HSA doesn't even do--see RyJ's 5 marevas) there's simply no need to completely discontinue a model--particularly when it brings a marca's lineup down to one or two total models. 

The argument that HSA needs more tobacco for larger RG cigars doesn't really justify killing slow-selling models. The slower they sell, the less need to be made, and the problem solves itself. HSA can make any vitola they want any time they want. Just look at how many REs they crank out every year--many with completely new, oddball dimensions. The Petit Robusto has to be one of the dumbest vitolas ever. But they created it and cranked it out.

The trend toward larger RG has been ongoing steadily since the 1980s, and hasn't really let up. I don't forsee a resurgence for the long skinny, or even coronas, lonsdales or corona gordas. 

 

How sure can we be that the embargo is a non-factor?  I find this difficult to judge, not being a Leftpondian.  How many American cigar smokers do break the law to order up Cuban cigars from abroad?  To put it another way, how representative of American aficionados are the internet communities?  

Discontinuing vitals and marcas may be connected to the Socialist impulse for standardisation, it occurs to me.  Addressing customer desires and serving a market with the widest possible array of offerings is not something state-run organisations do, or even understand.  

As for REs, to me they demonstrate what I said above: the Cubans do not really understand the global market.  Case in point: they undermine the appeal of the entire RE programme by re-launching the same vitola in different countries.  Apparently, they seem to believe we wouldn't notice when the Punch robusto and gran robusto turned up in different countries, or the RA belicosos.  

 

Petit robusto: I actually see the point of those.  The larger RG offers big smoke from the first puff, and its short size means it's a quicker smoke.  This combination is a decided advantage in countries where smoking is heavily restricted and where the climate does not allow for year-round hour-long sessions on the deck ....

[JohnS]

6 hours ago, Fugu said:

Last production was of 2013/2014 (there was some debate among members as to whether the '14 was the real deal... I'd say def. 'yes').

However, the MdO 2 has always been in discontinuous production and always been hard to come by and not available in all markets. Holding even more for the MdO 2 than for the SW. I can't remember having seen or heard of any '04-'07 production and I think there wasn't any '09, and '12 either (people in the know may chime in). So I wouldn't speak of on the brink to death, as this is rather normal for this vitola not to be seen for a few years.

I rather take it as a good sign, as when the necessary tobacco isn't there, it isn't being made. On the other hand, all these new releases need to use some tobacco that has been used elsewhere previously....

 

 

Yes, I could accept this situation too, however, it would be handy for vendors to be made aware if there is no leaf around for the LGC Medaille d'Or No.2, like the current situation with Cohiba.

[gweilgi]

3 hours ago, Fugu said:

From an interview in Excelencias, HSA Co Luis Sanchez-Harguindey :

You’ve just said it, but how important is for both Habanos S.A. and its distributors the Limited Editions and other specialties in the sales of habanos?

LSH: Consumers of premium cigars love new things. They keep waiting and wishing to be surprised each year, and in that sense it’s our obligation to meet that demand our customers have. On the other hand, it’s in the DNA of Habanos S.A. to have an innovative spirit that truly makes a difference, one that has helped us to develop absolutely new concepts that are now entrenched and highly widespread in the premium cigar market, such as the Limited Editions the Reserve and Grand Reserve or the Regional Editions. A considerable chunk of our sales stems from those specialties, therefore it’s in our best interest to continue innovating in different concepts and proposals, such as Habanos Añejados, of which we’ve just put two new products in the market: Partagás Coronas Gordas Añejados and Hoyo de Monterrey Hermosos No.4.

 

Interesting quote, thanks.

To me, this demonstrates what I wrote elsewhere in the thread: that Cuba does not really understand the global market.  

Consumers craving novelty?  Perhaps.  

Absolutely new concepts?  Bah humbug, balderdash and poppycock.  The industry has always produced limited runs for specific customers, so RE and LE cigars are nothing new.  

Limited runs sell well?  Of course -- cigar aficionados are quite commonly also collectors (*) who delight in the variety of cigars out there.  Expanding our range makes us happy.

Generally though, in the luxury goods industry as a whole -- jewellery, leather goods, watches, you name it --  the trend now is to emphasize history and tradition, to create and sell a narrative.  Price and rarity are no longer enough.  Customers increasingly look to buy the story behind a brand.  Heritage matters.  Making an emotional connection beyond conscious consumption matters.  They want to be told about the lone craftsman toiling away in a remote village in the Carpathians making knives in the same way as he was taught by his grandfather.  They seek out the wine made by the maverick scion of a winemaking dynasty in Georgia who went back to the roots to produce a red using a rare indigenous grape and techniques that have been lost in this industrial age.  Heirloom fruit and vegetables command a premium, especially when the story behind it involves farmers passionate about the land their families have been squatting on since the Norman invasion.  So a smart Cuban marketing campaign would elevate and push the smaller marcas, would use the historical capital of their old factories, would showcase individual torcedores who are the n-th generation to be rolling cigars, would make damned sure that every aficionado could recite the date of founding of all the major factories and marcas.  The above comment demonstrates to me that they are quite unaware of these developments.

 

(*) not to say "magpies": I don't think I have ever met a fellow BOTL who doesn't have a drawer or two full of dozens of different cutters, lighters, odd accessories, hygrometers and associated gizmos.  

[NSXCIGAR]

5 hours ago, gweilgi said:

How sure can we be that the embargo is a non-factor?  I find this difficult to judge, not being a Leftpondian.  How many American cigar smokers do break the law to order up Cuban cigars from abroad?  To put it another way, how representative of American aficionados are the internet communities?  

Discontinuing vitals and marcas may be connected to the Socialist impulse for standardisation, it occurs to me.  Addressing customer desires and serving a market with the widest possible array of offerings is not something state-run organisations do, or even understand.  

As for REs, to me they demonstrate what I said above: the Cubans do not really understand the global market.  Case in point: they undermine the appeal of the entire RE programme by re-launching the same vitola in different countries.  Apparently, they seem to believe we wouldn't notice when the Punch robusto and gran robusto turned up in different countries, or the RA belicosos.  

 

Petit robusto: I actually see the point of those.  The larger RG offers big smoke from the first puff, and its short size means it's a quicker smoke.  This combination is a decided advantage in countries where smoking is heavily restricted and where the climate does not allow for year-round hour-long sessions on the deck ....

I don't think it's really possible to quantify the Embargo's impact, certainly. Would sales and production increase to the US in it's absence? Undoubtedly. But they already have been for 20 years. And now, it looks like there will be an FDA embargo that replaces the existing one if it ever were to be lifted. 

Great points you make here regarding the Cuban "style" of business, so to speak. Surely, understanding consumer choice, global marketing and variety can prove difficult when almost all of your decision makers have never had much relative economic freedom in their life

6 hours ago, gweilgi said:

One thought that springs to mind is cost savings.  Fewer vitolas and fewer marcas means less expense for bands and boxes.  Or consider this: if they have a certain budget for banding and boxing, the more money that is spent on regional and limited editions, the less is left to bad and box the regular line-up.  Yes, the cigars are the main event, but all these small additional costs do mount up to a fair pile of dosh across an entire industry.  Just a thought...

Special production cutting into supplies for the regular production makes sense, alas.  RE and LE runs are more prestigious and command a higher premium, making them more profitable.  Also, the RE vitals being decided on and ordered by individual countries, sales are more predictable.  

I don't think there's any additional band expense--they make the same number of cigars either way. Boxes--well, again they're making tens of thousands of boxes with new, oddball sizes every year for special releases. Also, they have plenty of mareva boxes on hand to package a Diplomaticos #4, so no added cost there. I just think it's an issue of over-consolidation and the tendency for standardization, as you insightfully pointed out.

[Fugu]

Still, slightly OT, but...

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Special production cutting into supplies for the regular production makes sense, alas.  RE and LE runs are more prestigious and command a higher premium, making them more profitable.  Also, the RE vitals being decided on and ordered by individual countries, sales are more predictable.  

Yes, the revenue for special editions surely is higher as for the standard production (almost same prod costs, higher margin). That's the main reason for doing it, besides sparking interest and common talk of course. And there is a certain cannibalization, in particular when tobacco suffers from shortages. This all is aiming at the luxury-segment concept. Well, the Habano has always been a luxury product, when you look back in history. This is not really new, as you say, more a revival of older concepts. What new is, is that it is in the hand of a single company for a vast portfolio of different products, and that special editions are now obviously taking up a continuously higher share of the total production.

So, I am actually quite happy about the current Cohiba 50-aniversario thingy... providing a huge revenue for Cuba, while at the same time only using up tiny amounts of good tobacco. 

 

But just some notes on a few misconceptions here:

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Also, the RE vitals being decided on and ordered by individual countries, sales are more predictable.  

Even better: Not only more predictable - the RE vitolas are already beeing paid for completely by the respective importers. They are always already sold, null risk for Cuba.

 

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Discontinuing vitals and marcas may be connected to the Socialist impulse for standardisation, it occurs to me.  Addressing customer desires and serving a market with the widest possible array of offerings is not something state-run organisations do, or even understand.

The discontinuations are not, at least not directly, related to the socialist system. Quite the opposite - they were brought about by the capitalistic shareholders stepping in in 2000. So it is not the Cubans (alone) to be blamed for that.

Don't forget that HSA is only 50% "state-run". The 'western' influence is considerable, in particular in marketing.

 

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

As for REs, to me they demonstrate what I said above: the Cubans do not really understand the global market.  Case in point: they undermine the appeal of the entire RE programme by re-launching the same vitola in different countries.  Apparently, they seem to believe we wouldn't notice when the Punch robusto and gran robusto turned up in different countries, or the RA belicosos.  

The particular vitolas for the different REs are being chosen by the importers not by HSA. Importers come up with their wishes and proposals and HSA approves them, or not. So, redundancies in vitolas are not the prime responsibility of HSA. Well, they could deny certain vitolas, but why should they, as long as the tobacco for the blends is there, when the risk of selling them lies exclusively on the side of the importers.

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Apparently, they seem to believe we wouldn't notice when the Punch robusto and gran robusto turned up in different countries, or the RA belicosos.  

They know we notice, and there is no reason to hide it.

 

7 hours ago, gweilgi said:

Generally though, in the luxury goods industry as a whole -- jewellery, leather goods, watches, you name it --  the trend now is to emphasize history and tradition, to create and sell a narrative.  

I agree with you - and that very notion holds for the whole island, doesn't it? The "Cuban heritage" (since 1492, etc. ...) is already been set in place as a long-standing and strong marketing aspect. They do have that on top.

 

7 hours ago, gweilgi said:

... would showcase individual torcedores who are the n-th generation to be rolling cigars

Ken's long desired wish. 

[Smallclub]

11 hours ago, gweilgi said:

As for REs, to me they demonstrate what I said above: the Cubans do not really understand the global market.  Case in point: they undermine the appeal of the entire RE programme by re-launching the same vitola in different countries.  Apparently, they seem to believe we wouldn't notice when the Punch robusto and gran robusto turned up in different countries, or the RA belicosos.

The "Cubans"? How many cubans are actually involved in the process of creation of REs? Not only HSA belongs through Altadis for 50% to the very capitalistic Imperial Tobacco, but you seem to forget that most of the REs vitolas are based on a specific request of the local importers/distributors… When Altadis France asks for an other Quai d'Orsay robusto/whatever, how many cuban executives are involved in the process?

They don't care if "we" notice the redudancies; the smokers who chase REs from different countries are a tiny minority, probably negligible on a commercial level…

Again, big international cigar forums have nothing to do with the daily reality of Spanish, French, Swiss, German, etc. retailers.

[Fugu]

Pic for a little bumping.

This time one of the ULA 14 MdO4s. Less impressive than previous ones, with this one being more loosely rolled with a flaky ash. Still nice. Ejoying them fresh currently.

 

[john007]

While I do think there is a shortage of quality leaf at the moment, it looks like Habanos S.A. Is choosing to use it on LEs and REs. Think about how easy it is to get LEs and REs especially the LEs. Even just 5 years ago LEs would be gone after 6 months, now they are making more, raising the price and putting more focus there. I'm sick of these gimmicks, I used to get excited for the LEs now I think about all that good wrapper being wasted.

 

I have a box of lgc no.2 box code mur 13 that is seriously amazing. Perfect cigars, nice dark wrappers and I got them on the second market and didn't get gouged. Somehow.

[NapaNolan]

@Fugu what kind of grapes you got growing there?

 

You look pretty far behind the ripening schedule for any major wine region (except maybe Finger Lakes?).

[Ethernut]

Just ordered 2 boxes of the #4. Can't wait to check them out!

[losttrailer]

On 5.7.2016 at 9:28 PM, Fugu said:

. . . I can't remember having seen or heard of any '04-'07 production and I think there wasn't any '09, and '12 either (people in the know may chime in). So I wouldn't speak of on the brink to death, as this is rather normal for this vitola not to be seen for a few years.

that's right, except '07, there have been TEB 2007 boxes.

[Fugu]

6 hours ago, NapaNolan said:

@Fugu what kind of grapes you got growing there?

 

You look pretty far behind the ripening schedule for any major wine region (except maybe Finger Lakes?).

Well spotted! Ok, you are a pro as I get it. Actually, I don't know what it is. Had no luck identifying it so far. The vine must got some 80 years of age on it and was here long before us  . You are right, we are far outside the normal winegrowing region (the picture actually is from last weekend). However, we have a mild microclimate here - and the vine is trained along a south and south-west facing wall. So, we get the grapes to ripen almost each year, but they are usually taken by wasps before we can get a hand on them. This year was late due to a cold and wet season start. Usually, flowering starts early to mid June which is not too far or even not at all behind schedule of the wine growing regions which begin ca 350-400 km further south of us.

[Fugu]

30 minutes ago, Bster said:

I have a TEB OCT08 code for MDO #4's, still have 16 left. One of my fave factory codes.... and these sticks are incredible. So TEB was in 08 too. Have a few different vitolas from different marcas with TEB code, all are excellent. Maybe I've biased myself?

TEB was Partagas factory in '07 and '08, so standard code back then. But the production and tobacco quality had been excellent for those years and for that production. My '08 MdO2 are top notch, too. Also holding in particular for Bolivar.