Muhammed Ali - RIP

[westg]

6 hours ago, cigcars said:

 

    *I used to entertain my co-workers in Atlanta quoting and mimicking some of that "Louisville Lip" action:

       "Yesterday I hospitalized a stone; today I killed a brick! A'hm so mean I make medicine sick! I can drown a drink of water, I can kill a dead tree; float like a butterfly sting like a bee! C'mon lions, tigers, bears, gorillas! Ah'll whoop a hundred Godzillas!  Your hands cain't hit what your eyes cain't see! Doooon't MESS with Muhammad Ali !!!"    

 

My favourite was...... I am so quick ...at night when I turn the light off ....I'm into bed before the light goes out,

[MrGTO]

7 hours ago, DoubleDD said:

Great a dodging....punches. 

I wish my dad had $10,000 and 3 years of no boxing..... 

[helix]

2016 a tuff year . RIP Ali.

[Ken Gargett]

i can understand those anti-ali for his refusal to fight in vietnam. but worth remembering that one man's draft dodger is another man's 'man of principle' - and easy to see both sides. i'm not sure here and now is the time to get into it. 

and whatever side one falls, worth remembering that very few people have given up so much (short of their lives) to stand up for their principles. the guy went from king of the world to a jail cell. 

[Optic101]

A Legend - RIP !!!

[JohnS]

11 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

the frazier bouts might have been the great fights but that was so extraordinarily clever. 

Yes, it's hard to split the 'Fight of the Century' 1971 and the 'Thrilla in Manila' 1975, both of these were Ali's (and Frazier's) best fights.

9 hours ago, ayepatz said:

Have you read "The Fight", John? Great book. Mailer at his absolute best.

No Iain, I haven't. Thank you for recommending it.

[Duffer]

I was lucky enough to see him fight in person.  My Grandfather and father took me to MSG to see him fight Shavers.  Ali was not in the best of shape and well past his prime, but I will never forget the experience.  He was a one of a kind human and an amazing character.  RIP

[anacostiakat]

The Greatest Of All Time!  RIP

[backslide]

The Greatest Of All Time!  RIP

Not everyone feels that way

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[MIKA27]

This is just brilliant

 

The Story Behind That Superman And Muhammad Ali Team Up

In 1978, one of the strangest and most exhilarating comic book issues in DC’s history appeared in stores, featuring one of the greatest team-ups of all time: Superman and Muhammad Ali.

Teaming up superheroes and real life personalities was a tried and true trick for comic books: Superman had been paired up with celebrities in the past, such as President John F. Kennedy and Bob Hope before, so when DC Comics wanted to put him together with the World Heavyweight Champion Muhammad Ali, it seemed like a match made in heaven. After all, Ali wasn’t too far off from being a superhero himself.

Neal Adams noted that the idea came from Julius Schwartz at DC comics, who thought that teaming up the two would be a great idea. Everyone laughed at first, but the company’s publisher decided to go forward with it. They contacted Ali and went through lengthy negotiations to get approval to use his image.

Dennis O’Neil came up with the story and began work writing the issue, but had to leave before it was finished. Adams took over, adapting O’Neil’s work and completed the book. The issue featured an alien race named the Scrubb demanding to fight Earth’s greatest champion. Muhammad Ali and Superman each step forward to take up the challenge to save Earth. When Ali argues that Superman isn’t a proper champion of Earth, the Scrubb leader, Rat’Lar, has them fight one another on the planet Bodace (where Superman’s powers are negated).

Neal Adams drew the issue, which ran a long 72 pages and which came with a spectacular wraparound cover of Superman and Ali facing off. Joe Kubert provided the initial cover for the issue, featuring an excited crowd watching the pair face off. DC Comics didn’t think that original cover was joyous enough – it was too somber.

Adams took over the cover, making some major changes. The same framing and format remained, but he populated the crowd with a number of cameos that included real celebrities such as Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter, Lucille Ball, Johnny Carson, Ron Howard and Andy Warhol (and many more). Adams also included DC employees such as Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel and fictional characters such as Barry Allen, Batman, Lois Lane, Lex Luther, Diane Prince.

Several people, including John Wayne, didn’t give approval to use their likenesses, so rather than redrawing the faces completely, Adams opted to add moustaches to faces.

Ali had reportedly allowed his image to be used with one condition: his fictional self would have to discover Superman’s secret identity. (It’s also rumoured that he wrote his own dialogue).

The book was originally scheduled to be published in the fall of 1977, but was pushed back several times, first to the spring of 1978 and finally to the fall of 1977. During the delay, Ali actually lost his title of World Champion, utlimately regaining it in September 1978. The book would later be reprinted in 2010 as a hardcover.

Writer Brad Meltzer noted in the LA Times in 2010 that he felt that the comic was one of the greatest of all time:

It’s time for the eight-year-old me to open that book and ask: Does the interior sizzle match the exterior hype? In the name of good unbiased journalism, let me be honest with you — you’re #$%in — A right it did. And it still does. This is Neal Adams in his prime — when no one drew a better angry preacher filled with righteous indignation — and he’s drawing, without question, the greatest angry, righteous preacher of all time.

[cigcars]

44 minutes ago, MIKA27 said:

This is just brilliant

 

The Story Behind That Superman And Muhammad Ali Team Up

In 1978, one of the strangest and most exhilarating comic book issues in DC’s history appeared in stores, featuring one of the greatest team-ups of all time: Superman and Muhammad Ali.

Teaming up superheroes and real life personalities was a tried and true trick for comic books: Superman had been paired up with celebrities in the past, such as President John F. Kennedy and Bob Hope before, so when DC Comics wanted to put him together with the World Heavyweight Champion Muhammad Ali, it seemed like a match made in heaven. After all, Ali wasn’t too far off from being a superhero himself.

Neal Adams noted that the idea came from Julius Schwartz at DC comics, who thought that teaming up the two would be a great idea. Everyone laughed at first, but the company’s publisher decided to go forward with it. They contacted Ali and went through lengthy negotiations to get approval to use his image.

Dennis O’Neil came up with the story and began work writing the issue, but had to leave before it was finished. Adams took over, adapting O’Neil’s work and completed the book. The issue featured an alien race named the Scrubb demanding to fight Earth’s greatest champion. Muhammad Ali and Superman each step forward to take up the challenge to save Earth. When Ali argues that Superman isn’t a proper champion of Earth, the Scrubb leader, Rat’Lar, has them fight one another on the planet Bodace (where Superman’s powers are negated).

Neal Adams drew the issue, which ran a long 72 pages and which came with a spectacular wraparound cover of Superman and Ali facing off. Joe Kubert provided the initial cover for the issue, featuring an excited crowd watching the pair face off. DC Comics didn’t think that original cover was joyous enough – it was too somber.

Adams took over the cover, making some major changes. The same framing and format remained, but he populated the crowd with a number of cameos that included real celebrities such as Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter, Lucille Ball, Johnny Carson, Ron Howard and Andy Warhol (and many more). Adams also included DC employees such as Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel and fictional characters such as Barry Allen, Batman, Lois Lane, Lex Luther, Diane Prince.

Several people, including John Wayne, didn’t give approval to use their likenesses, so rather than redrawing the faces completely, Adams opted to add moustaches to faces.

Ali had reportedly allowed his image to be used with one condition: his fictional self would have to discover Superman’s secret identity. (It’s also rumoured that he wrote his own dialogue).

The book was originally scheduled to be published in the fall of 1977, but was pushed back several times, first to the spring of 1978 and finally to the fall of 1977. During the delay, Ali actually lost his title of World Champion, utlimately regaining it in September 1978. The book would later be reprinted in 2010 as a hardcover.

Writer Brad Meltzer noted in the LA Times in 2010 that he felt that the comic was one of the greatest of all time:

It’s time for the eight-year-old me to open that book and ask: Does the interior sizzle match the exterior hype? In the name of good unbiased journalism, let me be honest with you — you’re #$%in — A right it did. And it still does. This is Neal Adams in his prime — when no one drew a better angry preacher filled with righteous indignation — and he’s drawing, without question, the greatest angry, righteous preacher of all time.

       I bought this comic when I was stationed in Neckarsulm, Germany in 1978...and it was in German language! I don't know what has become of my copy, and I sure do miss it!  

 

 

[Ken Gargett]

3 hours ago, backslide said:

Not everyone feels that way

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which is fair enough, but i'm curious to know who you'd have ahead of him. i'm assuming we are talking boxing ability? 

[westg]

53 minutes ago, Ken Gargett said:

which is fair enough, but i'm curious to know who you'd have ahead of him. i'm assuming we are talking boxing ability? 

Indeed tell us...

[backslide]

Sugar Ray Robinson of course

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[backslide]

The Greatest Of All Time!  RIP

One of the greatest of all time is more accurate IMHO

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[asmartbull]

Great fighter, but a coward of a man.

I knew many that were conscientious objectors, but served in other ways.

Knowing many DAV's and it is hard for me to give a crap about C. Clay

 

 

 

[backslide]

Great fighter, but a coward of a man.

I knew many that were conscientious objectors, but served in other ways.

Knowing many DAV's and it is hard for me to give a crap about C. Clay

 

 

 

Quoted for truth

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[RDBM]

First boxing match I remember watching was '71 Ali v Frazier, never forgot it or him. 

[Ken Gargett]

5 hours ago, backslide said:

Sugar Ray Robinson of course

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it is a fair argument. i'd go for ali as on top of his boxing achievements in the ring, he made boxing such a high profile sport and he was the most well known human on the planet at his peak.

but purely in the ring, perhaps not so clear cut. 

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, asmartbull said:

Great fighter, but a coward of a man.

I knew many that were conscientious objectors, but served in other ways.

Knowing many DAV's and it is hard for me to give a crap about C. Clay

 

 

 

i am not sure what a DAV is (some sort of veteran?) and i understand that many may take strong objection to ali's stand, but i don't accept that you can call the bloke a coward. had he not refused the draft, there was every chance he would have been given a safe post - not a good look to have the champion of the world, an american, toppled by the enemy. but in refusing the draft, he gave up the fame, wealth, position, several years at the prime of his career, all knowing he was going to jail. all to stand up for his principles. i'd argue that is hardly cowardice. you may disagree with his principles but if someone does believe and stands up at enormous personal cost, i don't see that as cowardice. 

i'd also argue that he was hardly given the chance to serve in any other way, given he was in jail. whether he would have, who knows. 

stepping into a ring with frazier or foreman at their peak - again, hardly cowardice. 

[MIKA27]

2 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i am not sure what a DAV is (some sort of veteran?) and i understand that many may take strong objection to ali's stand, but i don't accept that you can call the bloke a coward. had he not refused the draft, there was every chance he would have been given a safe post - not a good look to have the champion of the world, an american, toppled by the enemy. but in refusing the draft, he gave up the fame, wealth, position, several years at the prime of his career, all knowing he was going to jail. all to stand up for his principles. i'd argue that is hardly cowardice. you may disagree with his principles but if someone does believe and stands up at enormous personal cost, i don't see that as cowardice. 

i'd also argue that he was hardly given the chance to serve in any other way, given he was in jail. whether he would have, who knows. 

stepping into a ring with frazier or foreman at their peak - again, hardly cowardice. 

I agree with Ken.

Standing up and not serving because he felt he had a greater obligation to fight equality of blacks in his own country was far more important than fighting someone else's war and making up the numbers. You can't attribute black equality just to Ali, but he is one of many who have taken a stance against being persecuted. Blacks in the 1950's couldn't even drink from the same faucet that whites did nor could they walk into a bar for a drink after work. Today, black/white, doesn't matter. White folks idolise blacks, musicians, TV personalities, sportsmen and women, the list can go on. I'm sorry, but Ali's work is done. R.I.P

Lastly, I'd much rather be drafted to war than be thrown in the slammer with "bubba" asking me to pick up the soap.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, MIKA27 said:

Lastly, I'd much rather be drafted to war than be thrown in the slammer with "bubba" asking me to pick up the soap.

i'd agree with this though that said, Bubba would be a brave man indeed if he asked ali to pick up the soap. 

[asmartbull]

Really uncomfortable talking ill  of the dead, so this is my last on the topic.  What most don't realize is that he was drafted several yrs earlier and wasn't able to serve due to his low standard testing.  He never raised his religion at that time.  It wasn't until they lowered the standards yrs later that it came up.  He was also offered an "Elvis like deal" to which he declined.  What did it in for him is when he admitted that he wasn't against all war, just the war declared by the white man.

It is well documented, so everyone can decide for themselves if he is a man of conviction and honor.....

[wabashcr]

14 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

it is a fair argument. i'd go for ali as on top of his boxing achievements in the ring, he made boxing such a high profile sport and he was the most well known human on the planet at his peak.

but purely in the ring, perhaps not so clear cut. 

I don't think you'll find many credible boxing historians or analysts who would put him ahead of Sugar Ray Robinson, Jack Johnson, Willie Pep, Henry Armstrong, or even Joe Louis.  He had great hand speed, a great chin, and quick feet (at least in the 60s).  He didn't have transcendent power, and wasn't very elusive later in his career.  He kept his hands low and got hit a lot.  But he destroyed opponents psychologically, often before ever getting in the ring.  

It's hard to say where Ali ranks as a boxer.  Winning the heavyweight title three times, back when that meant something, puts him near the top on its own.  Most important, influential fighter?  No debate.

[Ken Gargett]

1 hour ago, asmartbull said:

Really uncomfortable talking ill  of the dead, so this is my last on the topic.  What most don't realize is that he was drafted several yrs earlier and wasn't able to serve due to his low standard testing.  He never raised his religion at that time.  It wasn't until they lowered the standards yrs later that it came up.  He was also offered an "Elvis like deal" to which he declined.  What did it in for him is when he admitted that he wasn't against all war, just the war declared by the white man.

It is well documented, so everyone can decide for themselves if he is a man of conviction and honor.....

i agree probably not the place for a boots and all discussion on this - come over, have a drink on the balcony and we can chat at length - and i do understand that there will be strong opinions on this and they will be polar opposites. i did not know about the earlier draft. i'm curious - if he was ineligible then, and later refused to be part of it, how could he suddenly become eligible at the later stage? why did the standards for inclusion drop? just for bodies? again, for another time, i guess. but a bit scary they are shoehorning unsuitable people in, seemingly for cannon fodder. 

at the earlier stage, and i'd be a bit blurry here as not familiar with the timing, but i doubt he'd found his religion then. now i am the last person to defend religion in any form but i do understand that there are many people who have a faith that i do not understand. 

to me, refusing the elvis deal - what i referred to above - makes him more a man of conviction. if it was cowardice, the elvis deal would have taken care of that. but this is a man who, during this battle over the draft made it clear that he would stand in front of a firing squad rather than fight in that war and abandon his principles (however recent they may have been). i do not see that as a man who could be called a coward. for me, whether one agrees or not, there is conviction and honour. 

i also think that it is very possible to support certain wars (and be prepared to fight in them) while opposing others.