Airport Security and air travel

[Fosgate]

A certain post that was shut down recently caught my curiosity as I was watching "Border Security: Australia's Frontline" on Netflix. Got me to thinking about the evolution of airport security in general since I started air travel. I'm sitting here watching person after person not declaring anything etc getting pullled to the side and low an behold they are finding loads of food, drugs, drug paraphernalia, people trying to get into the country and the arguments that ensue. Here in the U.S. we have new security measures that really seems to lack the efficiency and standard that any service based business depends on for repeat business. 

When I started air travel as the early 90's trailing The Fall of The Berlin Wall, Red Army Faction bombings of Ramstein AFB, IRA bombings, Lockerbie PanAm flight 103 and several hijackings. Point is Europe Airport Security and Customs did not mess around with bags unattended, and much of the seriousness of the nature was understood and seemed like everyone understood the need and worked together to make things as efficient as possible.  My first flight was flying to Frankfurt Germany for my first duty assignment in the U.S. Army. Before leaving for the flight I had to meet with command for travel briefing and they explained what to pack and what was prohibited and the consequences of failing to comply. (basically if they don't punish you we will). When I arrived in Frankfurt there was some recent threat as we landed on the tarmac with an Armored Personnel Carrier that greeted us as we were led to a bus and transported us to the terminal with another APC escorting us. The flight attendant explained the entrance through customs. Step up the the guy at the gate with your ID in hand and he would wave soldiers, government workers etc to the right and civilians to the left. 

I never had to subject myself to a search and I'm not sure if anyone that was waived to the right did. But saw civilians having to open bags for a quick search but they were quickly in the baggage area with us. German roving security with dogs were wandering around with dogs and people were instructed to step back from their bag to allow the dog smell their bag. From there you could walk out straight into the street for a bus or cab. 

Upon returning to the airport a year later to go on vacation leave, there were roving pairs of security guards packing MP-5 Sub-machine guns. I was subject to search at that time and they did. Landing in Chicago I flash my military ID and just get waived past customs. Headed back a friendly woman just asks me the standard questions etc. When I returned to the states carrying my green weenie (Army Duffle) with all my issued gear in it they never messed with me. They just asked if ETS or PCS (ETS getting out of military or PCS change of duty stations). I think the ones PCS never got messed with. 

Here is where I noticed the change in air travel. When I got in they still issued a meal that was worse than any military mess hall I had eaten in and was probably borderline lethal. However, the service then was relatively professional, efficient and people were prepared for the most part. Now they don't offer food and allow people to walk on board the flight with any food they choose from the airport which is nice but it seems like people seem more clueless as to procedures, what they can pack, carry, acceptable luggage etc. That could very well be on the part of the information as every airline has their own standards as always but I just don't feel the information and it's importance is beat into us like it used to be. It almost seems like, "eh, look on the internet" and that's it. 

I see a lot of people who want to look back at old airline commercials in the 50's and 60's and see how people were pampered then and ask "Why can't we have that now?" my answer is "Have you seen some of the people that fly?". In the last 5 flights I have been on in the last year, every one of them had multiple incidents on the plane or the gate area, airport etc. I'm always searching my environment so I'm noticing things. People arguing with security, luggage check in, gate check, Stewardesses, People intoxicated, putting feet along side the armrest on the chair in front, vandalism of a bathroom before takeoff etc. Rental car companies that pile on extras even after you tell them specifically you do not need it, being billed tolls on airport roads months later. (Enterprise in Ft Worth TX billed me and a group two month later from my company for insurance after we told them. With other fees it doubled our rental. We are an insurance company, we don't need theirs.) It's like a circus anymore. I've asked my company not to book a flight for me for anything inside of a 12 hour drive. I can get to the hotel the moment I walk out of my front door in about the same time and it's just less stressful (and less expensive for them). 

Just seems to me Airline food of the early 90's swapped places with the service. Whatever the cause is, It's just such a disappointment to fly anymore. What are your opinions? Suggestions to enjoy flying?

[NSXCIGAR]

Taxes, fees, and regulations, my friend. As ticket costs rise, cutbacks have been implemented to retain mass ridership. Lower employee pay, reduced amenities, baggage fees, poor service. Consumer preference over the last 30 years has been for low-cost, efficiency air travel as opposed to high-priced, high service as was the case in the 50s & 60s.

Here are some of the ridiculous fees in the US--Europe's fees and taxes can be much more. 

• September 11 Security Fee of $2.50 (up to a maximum of $10 per round trip)
• Passenger Facility Charge of $4.50 per segment (up to a maximum of $18 per round trip)
• US Federal Domestic Segment Fee of $3.70 per segment
• US Travel Facilities Tax of $8.20 per direction (only applicable to flights to/from Alaska and Hawaii and the 48 contiguous US states or between Alaska and Hawaii)
• US Immigration User Fee of $7
• US Customs User Fee of $5.50
• US APHIS User Fee of $5
• US International Transportation Tax of $16.30 per arrival or departure
• Foreign government security/tourism/airport/international transportation taxes and fees of up to $290 (vary widely by destination and fluctuate with exchange rates)

There are also some little-understood factors that just kill the airlines bottom lines, like all the recently reported stories of hundreds of thousands of passengers missing flights due to ridiculous TSA lines. Airlines have to scramble to get these folks on different flights, creating a huge expense for them. Also, unions in the aerospace industry have gained enormous power in the last 30 years resulting in outrageous costs for new aircraft and aircraft maintenance. Also, cities and counties have continually been raising taxes and fees to airlines simply to land and use the gates at the airports. 

As far as idiot passengers flying, the airlines are probably scared to death of discrimination lawsuits if they kick anyone off their planes if it's anyone other than a white man. And why aren't the airlines held responsible for preventing terrorism? If they had liability for acts of terror I'd be pretty sure they'd work very hard to staff the airports with efficient security that was better than the TSA's 95% fail rate. But of course they can't screen for radical jihadists because there's the discrimination lawsuits again. A 9-year old American girl with a Disney outfit and a stuffed animal must be subjected to the same security checks as a 25-year old man from Saudi Arabia--because "fairness".

[LordAnubis]

Airport security i don't find too much of a hassle with... though i never have and will fly through America. Flying through aus and Europe is no dramas and i fly with ONLY carry on for a month of holidays. It's not that hard to work out. Yes there is sometimes a pain in the ass in variation, and that's what i think needs to be resolved. There needs to be consistency every single time you get on a plane through an international airport. It can't be that hard to develop and enforce an international security standard. I get on about 50 planes a year and carry the same items every time and then just randomly one day johnny security guard takes my Bic lighter off me just because. I used to carry a Ronson Jetlite and after 2 years of it just being in my bag through about 100 flights it got taken off me flying out of Toronto. That's what annoys me.

The profiling is great fun. Especially when you specifically ask them about it. "Are you "randomly" checking me because i'm brown? Or is it because of the beard?" Nothing makes white security guards back pedal faster Ultimately they are just doing their jobs to keep us safe. Is it a hassle? Sure. Do i have anything to hide? Nope. So it doesn't bother me.

Immigration is what i struggle with. That 5 hour interrogation by Mossad wasn't a particular highlight in my travel stories. The poms always ask me for my ticket leaving england the conversation always goes like this "where is your ticket flying out" "its the 21st century mate, i've got it on my email not printed out on dead trees" "how do i know you're going to leave the country?" "Mate it's a f@#$ing AUSTRALIAN passport? Why the F@#$ would i STAY?" "ohhhh ummm... sorry sir, welcome to London.... NEXT"

[LLC]

In the last six weeks I've had fifteen flights in Canada and the USA and I don't find it much of a hassle and understand they are doing the best they can.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Orion21]

In my experience Europe has always taken air travel more seriously than the US.  In 1999, well before 9/11, I will never forget flying out of Vienna.  What struck me, and has stuck since, were the soldiers patrolling the check in area with automatic assault rifles.  My friends and I just couldnt process it.  Even after 9/11 that heightened security in the US only lasted a short time.  

But since I think I was partially responsible for the locking of the previous thread I will keep my comments brief  

 

[Fosgate]

Almost forgot. I do enjoy meeting some of the people you run into while traveling. I was sitting down fueling up in the Fort Worth Cantina drinking something called a 3 Amigos that had a shot of tequila, margarita and a beer in it. On my left was the DJ for AT&T stadium and the Dallas Cowboys. On my other side was a loud Texan headed to a nearby Army base. Through conversation talked about past duty assignments. I mentioned the little base I was at in Germany he instantly mentioned it's nickname. I blinked in astonishment and asked how he knew that. He said he still has nightmares landing single engine aircraft on the little grass strip behind the commanders house. Talking about the small post and he knew the layout. Turns out the guy was a secret squirrel (CIA) back in the day about the same time I was there. Small world. 

Maybe you guys are right, maybe its not so much the help as it is the people. But I think back when I started to fly they would kick people off their flights a lot faster and maybe that is part of why there are so many Elvis's flying. 

[PapaDisco]

There's many many reasons why something as spectacular as flying 550MPH 7 miles high has sunk to the lowest common denominator:

1.  Airlines, like some other large cap businesses aren't disciplined in their pricing, nor in the management of their capital intensive business.  Railroads also have this problem cyclically.  With so much capital and leverage tied up in so much equipment, it's surprising how easy it is for an airline to mis-price its tickets.  Win business today, worry about cap-ex later.  And ticket pricing keeps getting more and more obtuse.  Back in 1995 American Airlines moved to a simple, all-inclusive, 3-tier ticket pricing system; hoping that the other majors would follow suit.  Of course they didn't, instead looking to undercut American by a few bucks and so American capitulated and went back to the goofy, mud wrestling system of ticket pricing that we have today.  

2.  Capitalism is not efficient when it comes to airlines.  That's why  the business traveler gets overcharged and the economy traveler gets undercharged.  For capitalist pricing systems to work properly you need simple, clear pricing.  You also need lots and lots of excess capacity; like walking into a department store or a grocery store: lots and lots of excess.  It obviously doesn't work well when all that excess stuff is $100mm aircraft, or power plants, or railroad lines, or ports.  That's why we regulate these large cap industries, and airlines were a joy to fly back when they were regulated in the U.S.  An airline was awarded certain routes so long as it also served lesser cities.  We all paid a few hundred more for our tickets, but we didn't have to pay extra for bags, food, etc and the service was top notch.  Everyone who flew was special, not just the million milers.  

3.  Definitely bringing air travel to the masses has help drive lower standards, but this is a natural outcome of deregulation of the airlines.  And anyway, everyone ought to be able to take a plane ride it's an eye opening experience.  Sadly, today the first thing everyone does is lower their window shades and turn on their seat back screen.  Your traveling 550MPH 7 miles up in the air and you want to watch TV?    Do we think that acting the jaded traveler is a good way to demonstrate our superiority?  Or are we just addicted to screens?

4.  Lastly, can you imagine the lovely day gone by below?

 

 

 

[El Presidente]

I cocoon myself when I travel. Common courtesy to airline and airport staff works 95% of the time. 

I pay my own fares so I fly value wherever I can find it. With some 130+ flights a year coming out of my own pocket, I have to 

Business class is ridiculously expensive unless flying international and using specialist first and business class brokers. I will book out of NY for most of my long haul flights and business class is 50% less than out of Australia. I will only fly Business ofr First if there are some 30 hours + involved and I need to work. In those cases I will book any airline that has wifi onboard. 

US security doesn't concern me. it is certainly not "friendly" but It is childs play compared to coming into Brisbane airport internationally. Asian airports are a breeze generally. European airports vary but really not that hard or intimidating. 

Central and South America can be a nightmare particularly if something goes wrong (you are bumped off a flight). If you are in need of assistance, my experience is that they will run a mile to avoid conflict/resolution. 

Only coming back into Australia have I been strip searched (twice) or been "sought out" for special treatment. Same when leaving the country. The number of times I have been "asked" to have a conversation with customs about "why" I am going somewhere has been too numerous to be a coincidence. 

Then again my passport resembles that of drug cartel honcho 

 

 

[Gunson]

I saw in the news that 95% of undercover attempts to smuggle weapons or banned items were successful. Yet I have to stow my xikar in my checked bag for fear that it will get confiscated.

[Duxnutz]

Did the other thread get shut down? 

Good read. 

 

http://www.askthepilot.com/tsa-summer-meltdown/

[Maxismoke]

Just like Mus, i do try to stay clear of the US unless i have business there.

Been to the US 3 times this year still, Fort Lauderdale was nice but completely worn down, Miami better, but very unfriendly people working at the airport. And last, as always LAX,  after CDG in Paris the worst airport in the world. Stupid layout, and extremely unfriendly people in the never ending lines to immigration.

I have a B1/B2 Visa, and still it taked ages and a load of BS questions to go through immigration.

[Lotusguy]

I fly well over 100k miles per year, mostly to Germany and domestic US with an occasional China or Taiwan trip. What makes it bearable is consolidating my travel to one carrier or flight alliance so you get high status which gives you pre-boarding, lounge access, and faster security. Business travel has long lost its luster for me after 20+ years of doing this...

[Fosgate]

Speaking of Prez's comment of business class vs everything else. Where are you guys booking your flights for business class and how much cost difference are you seeing? I looked a Denver to Manila this last April and Econ was $1700 and Business class was $5300. Looking at October and Econ/Coach is now just $756 But business is still $4k. Also what are the better or less expensive days to fly?

[Eric E]

My wife and I did Global Entry/Pre-Check a few years ago, and the time and frustration we save when flying in and out of the U.S. made it worth every penny.

It is a rare occasion when the Pre-Chack security line is more than a few deep, and that is flying out of Atlanta (always check in at Terminal F, even if flying domestic). 

On our return, from plane door open, through customs and immigration, to our car takes less than thirty minutes. Yes, from the time we reach the gate to the time I turn the ignition on my car is less than thirty minutes. 

Yes, we are both US citizens, and we agreed to a background/finger print check, and we had to pay $100.00, but we love it. It makes flying as close to hassle free as it can be. 

[Lotusguy]

My wife and I did Global Entry/Pre-Check a few years ago, and the time and frustration we save when flying in and out of the U.S. made it worth every penny.

It is a rare occasion when the Pre-Chack security line is more than a few deep, and that is flying out of Atlanta (always check in at Terminal F, even if flying domestic). 

On our return, from plane door open, through customs and immigration, to our car takes less than thirty minutes. Yes, from the time we reach the gate to the time I turn the ignition on my car is less than thirty minutes. 

Yes, we are both US citizens, and we agreed to a background/finger print check, and we had to pay $100.00, but we love it. It makes flying as close to hassle free as it can be. 

Agreed 100% - Pre and Global Entry are must-have for frequent travelers.

[Drguano]

A note about applying for Global Entry. Part of the application process is an interview with a Customs Agent where they take your picture and finger prints. If you've ever received a certain letter regarding a shipment, that will come up in your interview.

 

[planetary]

43 minutes ago, Drguano said:

A note about applying for Global Entry. Part of the application process is an interview with a Customs Agent where they take your picture and finger prints. If you've ever received a certain letter regarding a shipment, that will come up in your interview.

 

Well that's a wrinkle.  In this hypothetical example, I would imagine that acknowledging receipt of the alleged letter is ok, but that one should decline to discuss details of any kind, yes?

[RijkdeGooier]

Although not such a high-miler as some of you my annual Carribean trip can be frustrating. 

 

As I cannot change the system, I just cocoon myself just like Rob does. 

[Drguano]

20 hours ago, planetary said:

Well that's a wrinkle.  In this hypothetical example, I would imagine that acknowledging receipt of the alleged letter is ok, but that one should decline to discuss details of any kind, yes?

At this point, it would probably be too late. My thought, if you've ever gotten a letter, don't apply for Global Entry.

I am editing this to say that a reply from Orion21 (see below) states that others who have received letters have gotten GE. So rather than advising against applying, do  be prepared to be asked about 'the letter'.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Drguano
More info

[luv2fly]

Have a buddy that received a citation, technically an arrest, for open container in the car 5 years ago.  Driver cannot have open container but a pax can.  He did his community service and the record was expunged.  When he went for his interview, they asked about any arrests.  He said no, thinking expunged meant it was gone for good and nobody would know.  They continued asking him "Are you sure about that?" several times.  He fessed up and after a brief lecture, he was approved.  The interviewer did tell him that any future arrests including alcohol related could result in him loosing his Global.  That was the one and only brush with the law he has ever had.  Not exactly a hardened criminal posing a threat but it is what it is.  They know everything and nothing is "hidden" from view.

 

[TheGipper]

19 hours ago, Drguano said:

A note about applying for Global Entry. Part of the application process is an interview with a Customs Agent where they take your picture and finger prints. If you've ever received a certain letter regarding a shipment, that will come up in your interview.

I am curious if this is direct, actual experience you had when applying for GE?

[luv2fly]

If me, I would say a hypothetical situation.  Just me.

[Orion21]

There are people on this board who have received "many" letters over the years and got GE.  

[Drguano]

13 minutes ago, Orion21 said:

There are people on this board who have received "many" letters over the years and got GE.  

Good to hear! I was wondering about that. Then I hope people take my previous warning with a grain of salt.

[luv2fly]

That is good to hear.  i don't need it.  Fly once a year for vacation but I have several friends who do the 100k a year so good news for them.