Bordeaux 2015

[Fugu]

Anyone any deeper insight into the latest vintage?

With the current price announcements and critic's notes having come to light, it is not a particularly hyped year, but most say, the best vintage since 2010, with the right bank having been particularly successful. While JRobinson sais it will drink "relatively early", but reports to be "glad to be able to report enthusiastically", I read one crtitics even speak of the "most beautiful year" in his 30-year career, Suckling calls it "extremely exciting".....

The typical "best vintage is current vintage"- gibbberish, or more flesh to it?

My interpretation from what's published so far would be - at least heterogenous, and one will have to carefully select. Your take? Is it an attractive Bdx year? A solid or even good buy at prices up by about 15% on the 2014s? Perhaps even bargains to be had? Will it be a primeur buy?

Cheers
Paul

 

[Blazer]

Can't say, however I don't put much stock in what Suckling says any longer. Since his break from WS everything he drinks seems to be exceptional, which has led to a lot of press for him. Many believe his singular ascension is based solely on the indiscriminate ratings he is doling out

[Orion21]

Ratings mean nothing to me, but they drive hype and pricing.  The 2015's will inevitably be very good, but nowadays due to technology you'd have to be a complete hack to not produce good-excellent wines during good years.  The top cru are well out of my price range anyway, so I would love to hear from anyone in the know about some more reasonably priced options.  In the US it's harder to hunt them down.

[GavLew79]

I'm probably going to dip in, but only for the lower Crus Classes or Second wines of the good producers. I havent bought since 2010, oh apart from a bargain 2014 Ormes de Pez. 

[LLC]

I think getting a good overview of what many people are saying helps you determine the base of a particular vintage but it will still vary by area and winery. Too often now I find the "critics" calling it the best vintage since ...; it is in there interest to hype things for their industry. Having said that in good years I do by into futures. I went particularly deep in 2000.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dangolf18]

Tempted by that Malescot. Excellent value.

[mcease022]

Should be a good vintage but 2005 was the vintage of the century then 2009 was another vintage of the century then 2010 was yet another vintage of the century. I pay attention to what is said about the particular vintage, but at the end of the day it is business and there is money to be made so they will always make it sound like its the best year ever.  I had some 2007 that were as good as the 2005's but I realize they might not age as well. I always go to the Bordeaux Futures tasting to judge for myself.  I also have some favourite reviewers that I like to pay attention to. I have a few favorites that I like to buy in good years (smith haut lafitte, pontet canet) although the prices are getting ridiculous since 2005. 

[Orion21]

I stocked up on 2005's this year.  Of what I have drunk so far I am very happy with my decision.  

[Ken Gargett]

On 5/29/2016 at 7:49 PM, Fugu said:

Anyone any deeper insight into the latest vintage?

With the current price announcements and critic's notes having come to light, it is not a particularly hyped year, but most say, the best vintage since 2010, with the right bank having been particularly successful. While JRobinson sais it will drink "relatively early", but reports to be "glad to be able to report enthusiastically", I read one crtitics even speak of the "most beautiful year" in his 30-year career, Suckling calls it "extremely exciting".....

The typical "best vintage is current vintage"- gibbberish, or more flesh to it?

My interpretation from what's published so far would be - at least heterogenous, and one will have to carefully select. Your take? Is it an attractive Bdx year? A solid or even good buy at prices up by about 15% on the 2014s? Perhaps even bargains to be had? Will it be a primeur buy?

Cheers
Paul

 

there is always a degree of crap to having 30 vintages of the century every century!

00, 05, 09 and 10 are all fabulous if different years. 

i'm surprised you say not particularly hyped. i have been seeing a huge amount of hype but the feeling is that it is an exceptional year. 

i know that they think the same in both burgundy and champagne. we won't see the champers for a long time but it sits with 96, 02, 04, 08 and 12 from all reports. problem with burgundy which is being massively hyped, is that it is flavour of the month with the mega-rich and they have had a series of very small vintages (and they make a fraction of what comes out of bordeaux in the first place). the prices will be horrendous. 

i'm hoping to pick up a bottle or two! 

 

just on vintages of the century, halliday made an interesting statement a while back - i think i have this right - in about 1997, he said that we had likely not yet seen the best vintages of the century. the thinking being that the way things were improving so quickly, in vineyard and winery, that there was every chance that given a good year, the wines would be better than ever. something to that. 

 

[GasGuy82]

I find this whole conversation fairly interesting. Our family started in the liquor biz in the early '70's. My father was buying/selling French wines for years. Often times you couldn't give away stuff to your typical American buyer in the mid 70's.  We drank a lot of great stuff, bought and held stuff that people can only dream of now. The wines were actually fairly reasonable to buy. Funny thing, now that we are out of the business, we look to sell off old stuff off just to buy great everyday drinking wine. There are a few things I won't let him sell ('82 Mouton, '59 Lafite).

At some point I looked into buying and holding wine myself to collect/drink, I realized that it was much easier and more affordable for me to get into cigars. It also seems that there is more accessibility to great, affordable proprietor/vintner wines out their. The wines I imagine your typical Frenchman would enjoy. I worry that someday our cigars will go the way of today's wines.

[Fugu]

19 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

there is always a degree of crap to having 30 vintages of the century every century!

00, 05, 09 and 10 are all fabulous if different years. 

i'm surprised you say not particularly hyped. i have been seeing a huge amount of hype but the feeling is that it is an exceptional year. 

Absolutely, but I wasn't alluding to another 'vintage of the century', which I think, from what's been published, it surely isn't (still, might be the case for single wines/producers perhaps). Most folks currently talking of a - at least between the lines - "finesse" year. Well, we all know what that means....

After four mediocre years, there is of course a bit more "excitement" when there finally surfaces a good to perhaps a very good year again. But we have to put this into perspective. Producer's cellars and negociant's warehouses are still well filled with back vintages, and the 2015 seems not to be a particularly small vintage in terms of volume. On the other hand, in Côte D'Or, 2015 was again a smaller crop. Still, fair pricing will be crucial here(Bdx) for the success of the campaign, I guess

19 hours ago, Ken Gargett said:

i know that they think the same in both burgundy and champagne. we won't see the champers for a long time but it sits with 96, 02, 04, 08 and 12 from all reports. problem with burgundy which is being massively hyped, is that it is flavour of the month with the mega-rich and they have had a series of very small vintages (and they make a fraction of what comes out of bordeaux in the first place). the prices will be horrendous. 

i'm hoping to pick up a bottle or two!

As you are mentioning it and as we were debating Bordeaux and Burgundy recently, here is one for you in particular, Ken, which I found the other day when browsing the web for info on the 2015s. Perhaps nothing really new, but an interesting attempt to "debate" the issue pro and con, between the two heavy weights of popular wine writing (both - but in particular one of which I regard highly). I found this quite entertaining and even providing some interesting views (you'll have to read between the lines at times). For those interested in wine, grab a nice Corona Gorda and enjoy the 1.5-hour talk.
 

 

[Ken Gargett]

4 hours ago, Fugu said:

Absolutely, but I wasn't alluding to another 'vintage of the century', which I think, from what's been published, it surely isn't (still, might be the case for single wines/producers perhaps). Most folks currently talking of a - at least between the lines - "finesse" year. Well, we all know what that means....

After four mediocre years, there is of course a bit more "excitement" when there finally surfaces a good to perhaps a very good year again. But we have to put this into perspective. Producer's cellars and negociant's warehouses are still well filled with back vintages, and the 2015 seems not to be a particularly small vintage in terms of volume. On the other hand, in Côte D'Or, 2015 was again a smaller crop. Still, fair pricing will be crucial here(Bdx) for the success of the campaign, I guess

 

As you are mentioning it and as we were debating Bordeaux and Burgundy recently, here is one for you in particular, Ken, which I found the other day when browsing the web for info on the 2015s. Perhaps nothing really new, but an interesting attempt to "debate" the issue pro and con, between the two heavy weights of popular wine writing (both - but in particular one of which I regard highly). I found this quite entertaining and even providing some interesting views (you'll have to read between the lines at times). For those interested in wine, grab a nice Corona Gorda and enjoy the 1.5-hour talk.
 

 

brilliant. we usually have those debates on the ABC here but that one was never shown - the ABC much happier showing the debates which make anyone who is not left of castro look like the evil empire and a debate like this would probably outrage vast numbers of their sycophants, on and off the air (rob, whack that in your politically incorrect thread). 

i've met jancis a few times (we shared a chopper once - i had two thoughts. 1. god would not be game to down a chopper with jancis in it. 2. if it did go down, i could see the headline - 'jancis and others killed'). lot of time for her. and johnson is utterly integral to wine today. without him, we'd be far less advanced. 

[Mattygukas]

From what I read from way too many sources it is supposed to be a great year but not as good as 2005 or 2009.  Who the hell knows as most of it is likely hype but most agree it won't be sweet or super sharp year, so I am hoping for a nice balanced medium full bodied year at a high quality.  (but will surely be overpriced) 

 

[Ken Gargett]

8 minutes ago, Mattygukas said:

From what I read from way too many sources it is supposed to be a great year but not as good as 2005 or 2009.  Who the hell knows as most of it is likely hype but most agree it won't be sweet or super sharp year, so I am hoping for a nice balanced medium full bodied year at a high quality.  (but will surely be overpriced) 

 

general consensus seems an excellent year - no doubt overpriced - which will rival but not exceed 05, 09 or 10. though no doubt thee will be many makers whose 15 exceeds their wines from those earlier vintages. there seems to be huge wraps on the margaux, for example. 

[PatrickEwing]

I have a vague question/request for anyone that feels up to it. First some background. In September, part of my honeymoon was in Bordeaux (stayed at Les Sources de Caudalie, definite recommendation) and this was really my first intro to Bordeaux. We took a daylong tour and we're fairly fortunate to visit the following:

Smith Haut Lafitte

Haut Brion / La Mission Haut Brion

Cantenac Brown

Lafite Rothschild

Leoville Poyferre 

Subsequently, I've done some reading and two themes seem to emerge again and again. 1) Prices got enormously ridiculous following 1982/Parker and then again following the Chinese interest. 2) the soul of Bordeaux took a big turn to align to taste and consistency to ensure and support the big prices. Unique character and the respect of terroir have been slaughtered to capitalism. So, my question is...is this last statement valid in your opinion, and, if so can you point to any wines that you feel have maintained the "soul"? Left bank/right bank designation alone would be great, but even more so to the following:

St. Estephe

Pauillac

St. Julien

Margaux

Graves - Pessac Leognan

Pomerol

St. Emilion

As to cost? Reasonably priced would be ideal, but more curious to hear thoughts across the gamut. Right now, I lean slightly more right bank despite the chateaux we visited but want to know if this may be due to familiarity with the bolder, velvet feel of the merlot  

Thanks!

[BrightonCorgi]

I'd be hesitant to by en Premier unless I wanted mag's or another large format bottle.  The prices are just too high and lower cru's or less known vineyards will be available retail.  Plus, there are other countries making world class wine at affordable prices.  I'll look towards Italy and Portugal over BDX for current vintages.  Rhone and Loire are both still affordable and just enticing to me as BDX.

[dangolf18]

A lot of good values in bordeaux for 2015. Lamartic-Lagraviere and Rauzan-Segla are two that have good qpr. Bought some Haut-Bailly, Smith Haut Lafitte, and Pape Clement. Wasn't able to snag any Canon. The first tranche was priced so well but the price exploded for future tranches. 2009-2013 Bordeaux futures were horrible in terms or returns. I bought 2008s and dabbled in a bit of the 2014. Plunged back in with the 2015 vintage given the good quality and prices.