Help - y'alls thoughts

[Geaux]

So, took the fam on a year long trip around the US - made it to Phoenix where it was 108°. Forgot the cigars were in the RV with no air conditioning... and so the humidors read over 120°. They were in that condition for around 8 hours.

They are now at 70°. They have been for a few days. They were all in with Bovada packs that held at 62%. I need not do the math for y'all... 62% rh at 120°+ is not ideal.

The cigars do feel a bit dry, but not too dry. But as I sit here smoking them, they are harsh and seem ultra dry to taste.

I normally don't worry much - they are leaves. You can dry them or add some humidity to them... but have a couple hundred cigars that are my favs, which simple seemed unsmokable at this point.

Thoughts? Are they toast, or dust....?

Not worried about beetles right now. Mostly just want to be able to figure out if they will ever taste right again....

[MrGTO]

Put them in the fridge.

[Geaux]

Nope - don't need them dryer. Just wondering if anybody has any advice on how to restore them from the high heat they went through. Or if they are just gonzo. They really don't seem that dry to the touch - just horrible to the taste.

Anybody?

[garbandz]

put them into a large ziplok,take a 4 in square piece of paper towel,put 5 DROPS of water on it,fold it twice and put it in the bag.

when it is dry,repeat.

it will take a few weeks,but they will rehydrate,and be smokable.

done this many times,if you rehydrate slowly they will not burst.

[PigFish]

If they aren't broke, there is no need to fix them.

This is of course a problem with aqueous salt solution rH systems and varying temperature. Frankly, I am a bit surprised you did not enjoy smoking them more!

Dry tobacco can burn hot, especially if you are a fast smoker, but harsh has never been a problem that I have had with dryer cigars.

I say don't purposely smoke the next one looking for faults. You won't find any! Just go back to smoking them they way you always have!

Cheers! -Piggy

[stogieluver]

Here's what you do, Cooney. Take them to that stadium in Baton Rouge y'all like to call Death Valley (we ain't skeered), take them to mid field, stack them in a nice, neat little pile, and set them on fire in tribute to the Ole Miss Rebels. he he he

All in fun, my SEC West friend. Can't wait for the season to start. We're now down to inside 100 days till kick off. Love to hate the Tigers, but I love you Cajun's. You guys know how to throw a football party in Red Stick.

Like Piggy said, I'm surprised they didn't taste better dry. I like mine stored in the mid to high 50's.

[Fugu]

What your cigars just went through is a kind of heavy "travel sickness". I'd assume, the humidity is not the problem here, as it will rather quickly recover (if I understand correctly, the cigars have been stored in their humidors, i.e. locked in with humidification?). So I am inclined to second what Piggy said, a certain dryness alone won't have such a detrimental effect as you are reporting. The sticks will be out of balance humidity-wise, but will be fine again soon. By no means will they be "gone".

The "cooking" for a couple of hours, however, will probably have lead to some volatile components to develop and accumulate (ammonia, other volatile products from break down of oils and resins, etc.), which need to leave the sticks before they will be ready to be fully enjoyed again. That may have led to your observed poor taste atm. Some flavour components, however, may have also gone forever, depending on the sticks.

I'd predict, the older the cigars in your stash, the sooner they'll smoke fine again. Fresh cigars will likely be affected more severely by the process.

So don't bother, just be patient, they will all come back sooner or later.

[Geaux]

The "cooking" for a couple of hours, however, will probably have lead to some volatile components to develop and accumulate (ammonia, other volatile products from break down of oils and resins, etc.), which need to leave the sticks before they will be ready to be fully enjoyed again. That may have led to your observed poor taste atm. Some flavour components, however, may have also gone forever, depending on the sticks.

I'd predict, the older the cigars in your stash, the sooner they'll smoke fine again. Fresh cigars will likely be affected more severely by the process.

So don't bother, just be patient, they will all come back sooner or later.

Yeah makes sense. Thanks all for the thoughts. (All, except the ole piss fan :-)

To my tastes, I am getting tar. But travel sickness/baking chemicals makes sense on that. Now for the patients part...

[MrGTO]

I don't believe he's asking how to completely dry them out.

If you leave them in there for a month... I'm just saying to cool them off. I keep my cigars in my truck when I travel then toss them in the fridge if I'm gonna be away from the camper with no AC for a few hrs.

[Geaux]

If you leave them in there for a month... I'm just saying to cool them off. I keep my cigars in my truck when I travel then toss them in the fridge if I'm gonna be away from the camper with no AC for a few hrs.

Ah - gotcha. At first I was like, yeah right. But I was thinking you meant for a long period.

And I've since thought about doing just that if the temps are that high again, but have too many cigars for my tiny ass fridge in the rv.

[Fugu]

If you leave them in there for a month... I'm just saying to cool them off. I keep my cigars in my truck when I travel then toss them in the fridge if I'm gonna be away from the camper with no AC for a few hrs.

If you are out for condensation inside your boxes - then yes, that's the best way to do it!

Instead of "tossing them in the fridge" for a few hrs, better keep them in a simple cold box (coolerdor) without any or with only very mild cooling (just to keep the temp for that period) until you are back on AC. Just don't allow large temp-swings!

[PigFish]

It really is the varying temperatures that caused you this problem in the first place, is it not? Temperature has an undeniable link to the smoking experience!

I know that we are all tossing ideas at the wall here. So for the sake of argument I won't extrapolate as much as my friend Paul (Gooey for short) and go into a spin of volatile compounds, resins etc... I am saying there is anything wrong about it, but prefer to look to simpler explanations first.

The OP's mention of tar is interesting. It makes me wonder a little actually. Would tar not be a more stable content of the cigar? Would tar not be apparent in a cigar burning at 1000F and become volatile in the heat regardless of water content? Is tar the problem? AND, why would drying make it apparent, or is it a coincidence? Don't know! This is a target rich environment for speculators...

How about this. Varying temperature and water migration started and is your problem? That's it... The dryer tobacco is fine, but it is the saturated tobacco that is not so fine! The question is, how did you start dry and end up with saturated tobacco? Here is my speculation.

You did indeed cook the water out of the cigars! But water migrates and does not stop its migration. The migration started in a fashion likely similar to the ramping of the temperature of the cigar (and the water) both up and down. I am quite surprised you did not say (as Gooey mentioned above) that the lowering of the temp did not cause condensation in your boxes (or your storage vessel). I think it likely did, and perhaps it was never noted.

I would also not be surprised that, despite being dry, you did not mention the wrappers loose and perhaps wrinkled... It is my guess that the water that migrated out of the majority of the cigar, ended up mostly in the wrappers and binder. You see, the water is not static, and if the rH in the vessel went to 100+rH (meaning condensation at some level) the water is unstable there with a dry hygroscopic substrate at lower temperatures, and is looking to bond to the first thing it can!

This means I would be very hesitant to over cool the cigars. Those suggestions are IMHO bad ones! Those suggestions could lead to the development of mold! The last thing you want here, is to tie up most of the cigars' water in the outer layer(s), which is what I think you have done. I think the bitter taste is saturated wrapper and binder leaf.

So there is my 2-bit analysis. Ultimately you really did not let the cigars 'dry out.' You moved water around in them, and in such a way as to dry the inner cigar and saturate the outer cigar!

Cheers! -Piggy

[Fugu]

Ray, you are absolutely right, that effect has certainly also been there...

However, as always going for the simple explanation first for myself, too - what let me finally rule out, or at least tone down this option as being of major importance to the reported bad taste, was Geaux mentioning the subsequent storage for a "few days" @ 70°F. And the fact that his cigars were now feeling "a bit dry" to the touch. That seems to indicate that at 70°F for a few days, the uneven distribution of moisture within the stick from such a moisture imbalance or even a condensation issue will have been redistributed more evenly across the sticks already (a subsequent cool storage would have been quite detrimental). But agreed, we don't know the actual time constant of that process under those partic. conditions (nor do we know his actual "experimental setup"... ), and so perhaps yes, some residual effect may still have been retained.

The effect of vastly elevated temperatures on certain tobacco components will remain unaffected by this. The problematic moisture distribution, which would have led to an almost fireproof wrapper and binder and which must have come with a heavy canoeing/tunnelling (something or friend didn't mention, and in which case the cause for the bad taste would have been quite obvious), is only coming on top if you ask me.

Cheers, Gooey (...)

[PigFish]

Ray, you are absolutely right, that effect has certainly also been there...

However, as always going for the simple explanation first for myself, too - what let me finally rule out, or at least tone down this option as being of major importance to the reported bad taste, was Geaux mentioning the subsequent storage for a "few days" @ 70°F. And the fact that his cigars were now feeling "a bit dry" to the touch. That seems to indicate that at 70°F for a few days, the uneven distribution of moisture within the stick from such a moisture imbalance or even a condensation issue will have been redistributed more evenly across the sticks already (a subsequent cool storage would have been quite detrimental). But agreed, we don't know the actual time constant of that process under those partic. conditions (nor do we know his actual "experimental setup"... ), and so perhaps yes, some residual effect may still have been retained.

The effect of vastly elevated temperatures on certain tobacco components will remain unaffected by this. The problematic moisture distribution, which would have led to an almost fireproof wrapper and binder and which must have come with a heavy canoeing/tunnelling (something or friend didn't mention, and in which case the cause for the bad taste would have been quite obvious), is only coming on top if you ask me.

Cheers, Gooey (...)

... I think that the OP should be chastised for not providing enough data, logs, weights, photographs etc.... for us to properly destroy the topic with insignificant detail!!!!

Your thoughts Gooey?

Ultimately the OP now 'owes' us a proper report on the remainder of the cigars over time. Have they been damaged by semi-volatile compound evisceration (as you suggest) or just water migration?

Is your position that his cigars have been irrevocably damaged?

-LOL -Piggy!

[PapaDisco]

Yo Geaux,

No worries, you have merely replicated in your Winnebago the conditions I struggle with in Saigon. Your sticks likely got hot as hell and steam bathed simultaneously, since the Bovedas were unlikely to keep up with 120F temps.

In my office in Saigon, the electricity (and cooling) gets turned off every evening, resulting in my stash there going to 100F (and with 65% Bovedas). Those sticks too smoke much harsher. Once I got a way to keep them cool they eventually returned to normal over about a month. So think of your little excursion as akin to travel sickness and let them rest for 30-45 days and all should be well.

I never used to believe in travel sickness, and I'm surprised that once a stick goes to bitter that it can come back to tasty, but it seems to work just fine.

[Fugu]

... I think that the OP should be chastised for not providing enough data, logs, weights, photographs etc.... for us to properly destroy the topic with insignificant detail!!!!

Your thoughts Gooey?

My thoughts, exactly, Piggy!!

Ultimately the OP now 'owes' us a proper report on the remainder of the cigars over time. Have they been damaged by semi-volatile compound evisceration (as you suggest) or just water migration?

You said it! Let's be generous and set the submission deadline to Friday with regular updates on a weekly basis..

Is your position that his cigars have been irrevocably damaged?

Sir, may I kindly refer you to citation entry #8, last sentence...

But actually, not possible to provide a substantiated and finally 'scrutinizable' prognosis based on this shabby data set...haha

[luv2fly]

You guys are so bad.....funny but baaaadd

[PigFish]

Sir, may I kindly refer you to citation entry #8, last sentence...

But actually, not possible to provide a substantiated and finally 'scrutinizable' prognosis based on this shabby data set...haha

Can't do it Gooey... I am stuck at the last sentence of paragraph 2!!! You have ostensibly conscribed the poor man's cigars to 'death without volatile resins!!!'

...you just had to go to the level of resins didn't you? Cigar killer!!! Murderer! -LOL Might as well told the man to mash'em up and feed them to the hogs!

Data, by Friday, okay by me! Just not before 10am. I need my beauty sleep!

-Piggy

[Fugu]

2 hours ago, PigFish said:

Sir, may I kindly refer you to citation entry #8, last sentence...

Can't do it Gooey... I am stuck at the last sentence of paragraph 2!!! You have ostensibly conscribed the poor man's cigars to 'death without volatile resins!!!'

 

No, no, sorry it's mainly the oils, just the oils (!), noxious volatile aromatic resin components and the respective lipid decomp. products, such as short-chain saturated fatty acids that cleared out. While at the same time boosting omega-3 fatty acids! Evolving the sticks into a dietetic 'lifestile' product with a much lower calorific value and cardio-vascular protection side effects.

(Hmm, I think, we should quickly check options to get that patented somehow...).

[PigFish]

HOLY CRAP... WHAT HAPPENED TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD??? (THE SITE)

Anyway... Gooey, I am sending the FDA over to your house so's you can school the fools!!! Right-on baby!!!

Back to the OP... So, his oils are gone now that the resins are off the table and he is still 'F'd'...

Dude, it is much safer just to talk about water!!! -LOL

 

-Piggy

 

[Fugu]

Water?!! Oh, don't you let me get started on water!!!

[Oldmso54]

Fun read!  You guys are hilarious!

[PapaDisco]

Man this sure went south fast . . . all that's left is for someone to declare someone else a 'nazi' and it's all over!

[Geaux]

Wow... glad I could be the impetus for such crazy speculations.

Ray, I think you may be on to something here. The cigars feel tighter and squishy compared to their normal state I like them in. Though in Phoenix, there was no observable condensation as they cooled.   I must add a disclaimer that I do not have the time to study this minute by minute....

 

I am have an absolute nightmare trying to keep the stogies in a stable state. As we travel they get up to 80-100°. Then we get the air going and they go back to 70°. At night (now in the high desert) it can get to 50°!!   Temp swings all over the board.

Phoenix has a rh of around 12% right now, so not too much like Saigon. Soon we will be in the deep south, and humidity will be abundantly available. 

Blah. I am thinking about sending the stash back to live in my real humidor back home... which I might add is not my favorite option. Traveling without a cigar stash makes Jack a dull boy.

[PigFish]

48 minutes ago, PapaDisco said:

Man this sure went south fast . . . all that's left is for someone to declare someone else a 'nazi' and it's all over!

Listen PoopyDiaper... be nice or I will report your post!!! -LOL -:pig: (read with levity please)

Back to basics I think it is water, but there will be as many opinions as people who reply! Having some fun with a topic is always on the table with me, as the site curmudgeon I will be a constant reminder of my privilege!

If this is an extended journey for you mate, perhaps you can get yourself one of those little TE controlled ice chests. Controlling it will be a *****, you would have to tinker with it...

Hell, I have got some cheap timing modules that you could likely rig up to make one of these things run for 5 minutes then off for some time and repeat over and over. You would have to teach yourself short order to get it balanced, but if you could bring the net heat changes down to a more constant 70 to 80F you might be onto something. It is just an idea!!! Look into the Humidor Tutor forum and find my timed fan thread. You will see the timer there.

Just because a few of us chose to have fun with the topic does not mean that we are not here to help... Gooey and I, are just a little be crazy... As they say, crazy minds think alike!

-The Pig