Best harvest/cigars years since 2000?

[Fugu]

Avelino Lara and his legacy ....

Thanks for posting this, Mike. Had heard about him and his legacy before, but wasn't aware of his later whereabouts and the relationship with Graycliff. Good info!

[Fugu]

Olga: this is from HSA Executives, via CA, so I think you will get more info out of this statement - Cuba, its distributors, vendors and weather service do not like this kind of information - this was published a while ago

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Full read here (although doesn't specifically answer Olga's question )

[Fugu]

This is one of those threads where you get mentioned all possible options/years if you just let it run long enough.

When reading through this thread I got thinking to myself: "Yes, recent production is very good. And - indeed, true, the excellent '08s I have! Hell, yes, have to agree the '07s, how could I miss that! And - ahh, the exceptional '02 MdO2s, ... the '05 Espi and Coro, the very good '09 Cazzis, the grand '10 GE, the little gems of '11 BCJ, great '12 RAG, '13 Espi.... Ahh, correct, let's not forget the superb '03 DesDs and the Winstons, of which I still cherish a few...." and so on, a.s.o.

In essence, everyone of us will be able to find and name a remarkable cigar/production for almost every year. As others have said, you need to break this down to the single marcas.

But this factum is quite logical, since, when looking at box codes we are not talking about "harvests". We are talking about "production" - mostly - sometimes not even that, as it's just the boxing date... . To complicate things further, the tobacco that goes into the ligada for different marcas and cigars may stem from very different years. Simple example: When we are talking about Cohiba, everyone knows there is an additional final fermentation step. So, it is to be expected that e.g. in a 2015 CORO, the tobacco tends to be older than e.g. in a 2015 RASS. A '08 Lancero will have been made of - on average - older tobacco than a '08 Fundi, given aging of components has been kept equal. So, unlike in wine of a certain vintage, we cannot directly relate a particular production to a certain harvest. And mostly it is a mix of tobacco from different harvests going into a single stick anyway.

That being said, there are quality differences of course, there are better and lesser prod. years, but in the main one has to consider that for each and every single marca and vitola separately.

[Joshtupps]

On that note FUGU, does anyone know how the 2015 COROs are smoking?  I know there were some belters in 2014, but haven't heard anything about 2015.

 

Tupps

[HavanaSunday]

40 minutes ago, Joshtupps said:

On that note FUGU, does anyone know how the 2015 COROs are smoking?  I know there were some belters in 2014, but haven't heard anything about 2015.

 

Tupps

From what I've tried..... OBM OCT are phenomenal, followed closely by PTR AGO.  Had a few ALO SEP that need to rest.

[Joshtupps]

Thanks for the reply Havana!  I  have a box of OBM SEP sitting, yet to try one, I'll let you know!

 

Tupps

 

[Olga]

On May 13, 2016 at 2:38 AM, BonVivant said:

Olga: this is from HSA Executives, via CA, so I think you will get more info out of this statement - Cuba, its distributors, vendors and weather service do not like this kind of information - this was published a while ago

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Thanks for that BonVivant! 

[CoffeeGeek]

On 5/10/2016 at 9:22 PM, El Presidente said:

2006-2008

2013-2015

Every year has good cigars. Every year has some ordinary cigars. These periods were well above average on the curve.

It's interesting to me how this crosses over with Port wine. In Portugal, only a few select years are declared "vintage years", and while some of the houses over there seem to think every year is a vintage year, by and large, the industry, and the port aficionados, know the good years from the bad and the meh and the normal.

I wonder if anything like this exists, in a more formal form, for the cigar industry? For Port, this is a serious thing - evaluations, growing conditions considered, processing considered, meetings held, tastings done, and a big formal declaration. It's a long, long standard tradition. Here's a helpful chart - the "10" seasons are the true vintage years, being 2011 (buy 'em like they're going out of style!), 2007 (I think it wasn't, but who am I), 2000 (considered the best vintage ever), 1994 (was considered best till 2000 came along), then all the way back to 1966 and 1963 (I have one magnum of a 1963 that I really should find a celebration to drink it at; it's at a professional wine cooler storage place, getting lovingly turned 3x a year). 

Seems to me cigars could benefit from this as well, at least from a national (ie per country) standpoint?

Mark

[TheMonk]

It's interesting to me how this crosses over with Port wine. In Portugal, only a few select years are declared "vintage years", and while some of the houses over there seem to think every year is a vintage year, by and large, the industry, and the port aficionados, know the good years from the bad and the meh and the normal.

I wonder if anything like this exists, in a more formal form, for the cigar industry? For Port, this is a serious thing - evaluations, growing conditions considered, processing considered, meetings held, tastings done, and a big formal declaration. It's a long, long standard tradition. Here's a helpful chart - the "10" seasons are the true vintage years, being 2011 (buy 'em like they're going out of style!), 2007 (I think it wasn't, but who am I), 2000 (considered the best vintage ever), 1994 (was considered best till 2000 came along), then all the way back to 1966 and 1963 (I have one magnum of a 1963 that I really should find a celebration to drink it at; it's at a professional wine cooler storage place, getting lovingly turned 3x a year). 

Seems to me cigars could benefit from this as well, at least from a national (ie per country) standpoint?

Mark

You seem to know your way around Port wines, Sir... Very nice. And yes, it would be somewhat interesting if HSA actually rated their yearly crop quality, although considering they can't even keep up with demand now, it's provably fair to say they probably don't "need" to do it... Which isn't to say it wouldn't be a good thing nonetheless.

[LGC]

And yes, it would be somewhat interesting if HSA actually rated their yearly crop quality

You can spot the "non-vintage" crops by the sudden "special" releases and fancy repackaging (jars, etc.)...

[TheMonk]

You can spot the "non-vintage" crops by the sudden "special" releases and fancy repackaging (jars, etc.)...

You're not wrong, but that may also be due to overstock by a specific distributor, and not necessarily a better or worse year in terms of tobacco quality.

[CoffeeGeek]

12 minutes ago, TheMonk said:

You seem to know your way around Port wines, Sir... Very nice. And yes, it would be somewhat interesting if HSA actually rated their yearly crop quality, although considering they can't even keep up with demand now, it's provably fair to say they probably don't "need" to do it... Which isn't to say it wouldn't be a good thing nonetheless.

I know just enough about Port to be dangerous... to my wallet.  I see you're from Portugal! I loved my visit there in 2000 and 2007. As a sidebar, what's your take on the 2011 declaration? I actually haven't tasted any yet as a sampling, but I have bought two mixed cases to store away. Drinking my '94s these days, along with some amazing LBVs that came out of 97 and 98. 

The Vintage Declaration is a long, old standard for Port from what I can tell; considering how the Cubans are ramping up for US market explosion (believing they'll claim 25% of that massive market within a few years of legalized import) for cigars, it actually might be a great idea right now to start a program like this, to really distinguish Cuba even further from the rest of the cigar growing markets. Reason: this isn't a short term, next cycle play; this is a long term, "let's protect our market 20, 30 years from now" play, once the initial cache of "oh, I'm smoking a Cuban!" in the US subsides.

[BonVivant]

On 6/3/2016 at 0:50 PM, Olga said:

Thanks for that BonVivant! 

Olga, once you weed out the producer/distributor/vendor/(supplier) and self appointed "gurus", great harvests/years with great cigars are easy to understand

[Fugu]

13 hours ago, CoffeeGeek said:

(I have one magnum of a 1963 that I really should find a celebration to drink it at; it's at a professional wine cooler storage place, getting lovingly turned 3x a year). 

Seems to me cigars could benefit from this as well, at least from a national (ie per country) standpoint?

Mark

From turning three x a year?

Joking aside - this would never work for cigars, at least not exactly like the VP process works. For various reasons.

Well, perhaps the GR and Reserva eds is the closest you would get to a vintage concept.

 

[TheMonk]

As a sidebar, what's your take on the 2011 declaration?

Haven't tasted any 2011 vintage Ports yet, I'm more of a Single Malt and Aguardente man myself, TBH.

I have however drank more then a few reds from the Douro region (which is where the grapes for all the Ports come from), and they are generally superior to their previous or following years' bottlings. 2011 really was a superb year for wine in the Douro region, so vintages will most likely be fantastic as well.

[avaldes]

The problem with establishing a vintage year in cuban cigars is in the way they are manufactured. At best you could point to a really unique, specific cigar, like say P155's where you know it was made by a specific roller from a specific batch of materials. Aside from that, the difference in wine production and cigar production is vast.

[Jauwels]

Anyone experience with the year 2010?

I have e box partagas 898 2010.

Thank you!