Drink tax is here!

[Fuzz]

A tax on Irn-Bru? (I love that stuff!) If he were alive, what would William Wallace do?

Call Mel Gibson and tell him "Braveheart" was absolute shite.

[LordAnubis]

In my opinion democracy is not the greatest, communism is not the enemy. There are people who should not vote. The government does not do a perfect job, but could i do a better job of running a country? Probably not. I don't think controlling everything is a great system, but i don't think giving everyone free reign is the best way either. I trust some of my neighbours to do the "right" thing, but some i do not trust.

I wouldn't ban coke outright, because then where's the freedom of choice? Granted there is a problem with the taxation of tobacco regarding cigarettes and its effect on health and cigars and it's effect on health. There is a better way, and we haven't achieved that yet. However giving people the science and understanding that coke isn't good for you hasn't exactly done much to change consumer choices has it? Will increasing taxes? Probably not a lot. But maybe, just maybe, if the money generated went to educating the next generation in a healthier lifestyle, then that would be worth it. To me.

[Sophistic]

Fructose is just as bad as glucose, tax doesnt make sense.

[westg]

Have a read of the 8 week blood sugar diet ....Dr Michael Mosley

Very interesting ...not hijacking Mus.... is a good topic

[Zigatoh]

Fructose is just as bad as glucose, tax doesnt make sense.

Isn't this UK sugar tax simply on sugar content per 100ml without specify sugar type?

Just read that the money 'should' be going towards sport in primary schools, which can't be bad when 1 in 10 children starting primary school (age 4) in the UK are considered obese, and 1 in 5 when they leave primary school (age 11).

Not surprising when one 330 ml can of full fat coke has more sugar than the recommended daily intake for an 11 year old!

I still don't get why anyone drinks full fat instead of diet fizzy drinks, which tend to have a grand total of zero sugar...

[TCContender]

Actually, Coke has managed to remain profitable despite declining sales because they are selling products in smaller containers. The small cans and bottles command a higher profit margin. http://www.businessinsider.com/coca-cola-q2-earnings-shift-to-smaller-packs-2015-7

Accurate statement. Ever notice that 2L bottles are priced lower than the single serving sizes (1/2L, etc)? Higher priced smaller containers are pure profit as the greatest cost of getting Coke to market is the warehousing, distribution and handling activities.

[Duane]

Taxes = the public is ripe for surrender.

[ayepatz]

UK Governments tax things that they know will bring in a lot of money, then spin it as being "for the public good".

It's worth remembering that the UK's health system, the National Health Service (NHS) is not free. Every taxpayer on the country pays for it through National Insurance contributions.

The government is saying that this tax is an attempt to tackle childhood obesity, and relieve the strain on the over-stretched NHS. But what about chocolate bars, potato crisps, fish'n'chips, curry, fast food, etc. Never mind compulsory physical education in state schools (which doesn't exist, as our PC nanny state screwed that up years ago). There are so many steps the government could take to tackle childhood obesity, if that were really its aim.

It's estimated that the fizzy drink tax will bring in £520 million a year. It's also estimated that the government failed to collect around £2.5 BILLION in Corporation Tax from Google and Amazon alone THIS YEAR.

Maybe I'm being cynical here, but it strikes me that George Osbourne's motives are rarely for the public good.

[Pharmacovigilant]

Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree.

[DoubleDD]

God, if we could only tax stupidity we could do away with all other taxes!

[Zigatoh]

UK Governments tax things that they know will bring in a lot of money, then spin it as being "for the public good".

It's worth remembering that the UK's health system, the National Health Service (NHS) is not free. Every taxpayer on the country pays for it through National Insurance contributions.

The government is saying that this tax is an attempt to tackle childhood obesity, and relieve the strain on the over-stretched NHS. But what about chocolate bars, potato crisps, fish'n'chips, curry, fast food, etc. Never mind compulsory physical education in state schools (which doesn't exist, as our PC nanny state screwed that up years ago). There are so many steps the government could take to tackle childhood obesity, if that were really its aim.

It's estimated that the fizzy drink tax will bring in £520 million a year. It's also estimated that the government failed to collect around £2.5 BILLION in Corporation Tax from Google and Amazon alone THIS YEAR.

Maybe I'm being cynical here, but it strikes me that George Osbourne's motives are rarely for the public good.

Very true that the government often puts spin on things, but in this case then end result is in the public good, even if they're still just trying to line their pockets as seems to be the opinion here...

Yes we contribute when we can, so while working, to the NHS, but when we don't or can't contribute, possibly due to ill health, the NHS still has us covered, does private health insurance cover you when you can't afford it? (and it's getting more and more expensive in the UK as well)

Why drinks? Some interesting points here -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35824071

Also remember this is a first step in the right direction, drinks is relatively straight forward by simply stating an amount of sugar per 100 ml and excluding pure fruit juices. When it comes to food things get a lot more complex, someone above mentioned fructose for example - when refined and added to sweets or drinks this stuff can be terrible - high fructose corn syrup may be The culprit when it comes to US obesity for example... But there's plenty of it in fruit as well, so fruit is bad right? Nope, things become very different when in whole foods due to other parts of the food, fiber is awesome...

Stuff about fructose here - https://authoritynutrition.com/why-is-fructose-bad-for-you/

In fact the whole food thing is a nightmare, it's more the effect on blood sugar, and then the related insulin response where things go (ahem) pear shaped.Some really good info here - http://nutritiondata.self.com/topics/glycemic-index

One odd example is potatoes, complex carbs (how we used to learn and rank carbs) and yet it has a really high glycemic index??

Even preparation effects how easily something is digested so how guickly blood sugar can be elevated. There could even be issues with excluding fruit juice, it's still high in sugar and may not include the fiber from the fruit -

https://authoritynutrition.com/fruit-juice-is-just-as-bad-as-soda/

I mostly avoid fruit juice and make my own smoothies with whole fruit and veg, and drink it straight after blending, you're still better off directly eating whole fruit and veg but this is better than the stuff you buy!

I'm with you on compulsory PE, hopefully with this money (supposedly) going to PE in primary schools that might also be a step in the right direction.

Didn't know about the amazon google thing, except that all big companies try and avoid tax in every dirty way possible, but it doesn't relate to this does it? Otherwise we could just say, well we did a bad job on the amazon google thing so lets just give up on everything else shall we, baby and bath water it is.

[Akela3rd]

Well, the Tories certainly grabbed the headlines on this one -" here's an idea for a tax on bad stuff and we'll give the money to make children better". Really? C'mon, see through the smokescreen.

They have created the headline, they have controlled the media message and they are defining the debate. It's a political tactic that has been used again and again to distract the populace from other issues and actions that are way more controversial, underhand, immoral even (some of which have been touched upon in this thread).

A sugar tax is mostly unworkable, would be ineffective in combating the stated aims and would be challenged and diluted if the suggestion ever went any further.

They know this.

And people are complicit in this manipulation whether they know it or not.

I don't have a solution - I only have cynical disregard for Westminster politics, national media and the willing submission of the majority. I rage, I calm down and I carry on with my life, my way. They will pass and the sun will rise again. **** 'em.

[PigFish]

Texting and driving causes death... We need a text tax!

Jogging causes joint destruction, we need a jog tax!

Sunlight cases skin cancer, we need a beach tax!

Bicycles cause broken bones and trauma injury, especially to young people, we need a tax in bicycles!

Sport of all sorts cause, head injuries and joint trauma, we need to tax little league memberships....!

Wake up people! If your system of healthcare does not balance, that means that it will never work on a sustained basis. The correction of a government blunder is never greater government and more taxation.

Man, reading this stuff, it is no wonder that drugs are popular, as are video games and Hollywood action movies. No one lives anymore, because they are afraid to move about and enjoy life. And if the do, they are punished by government for it.

I have a saying. If it is not mandatory, it is prohibited! I know some of you want that kind of government, but I don't...

... tax the other guy, cause I get taxed!!! Man it is no wonder that governments are in debt and men are no longer free! When government makes your cigars illegal, or effectively does so because your neighbors think that your enjoyment is dangerous and they tax it so much it cannot be afforded, just like you do theirs, a lot of you will get what you deserve! Please remember... Your mindset caused this disaster!

I would hope that you get it, but the problem is, you will also kill freedom for the rest of us!

If the fat people are not dying fast enough for you guys, why don't you put a tax on body mass? I mean that is what you are saying. You guys are blaming the fat people for your healthcare problems.

Your kids are too fat, because your government says so!!! F'n A men, do you realize what you are saying!!! Why not have government step in and punish the parents? Government is so good at everything they should just take the kids away and educate them proper... right???

You guys let me know when you get around to judging people's health to skin color...

-Piggy

[Guest]

When signing up for insurance, there's a reason the insurance companies don't ask the question about what you eat and drink. Even though the implications of what you eat and drink affect their bottom line,

Check the box that says you consume tobacco, even in negligible amounts, and you'll be crucified....yet this obesity burden you say is 'epidemic' gets off scott free?? Trust me, the insurance companies would never ask the question whether you drink Coke in their documentation - as it would be discriminatory to do so!!

The government is taxing stuff willy nilly, based on what it knows will be popular.....and what it will get away with. Allowing a small bit of your rights (and responsibilities to moderate yourself) to be eroded - with your permission!!!!!

[Akela3rd]

Righteous indignation Piggy! I love it. Rage on brother.

Peace out, my man.

[Zigatoh]

Hmm. OK. (texting while driving is illegal over here btw pigfish, because it is an example of stupid people endangering others)

So. Being obese at age 4, and all the inherent risks that go with that as you get older. At 4 the old excuse that he buys stuff for himself which can't be controlled. Well that can't be right, not at 4? And there are some conditions that could cause it, thyroid etc, but what are the odds, pretty low compared to how many we're talking about here. So the parents really should be aware of Everything their child is eating.

So is it fair to a child, that has no control over what they are fed, but their life could well be irrevocably altered for the worse, hell they could develop diabetes in their pre teens! Is that fair?

And it's not just the government telling us these kids are fat! I see them every day, puffing and panting at the effort of walking!

So unless you think this is fair on a toddler or pre-schooler, what would you do about it??

[Guest]

Using that logic, it's clear the government have a responsibility to impose an age restriction on soft drink consumption until the person is an adult, just like with alcohol and tobacco..

[Zigatoh]

That's one option albeit a bit harsh, maybe allow them to drink diet soft drinks?

Also, you didn't answer the question, is that fair on the child?

[Guest]

Wooaahhhh

That's one option albeit a bit harsh, maybe allow them to drink diet soft drinks?

Also, you didn't answer the question, is that fair on the child?

Are you saying that it's a government responsibility to ensure parents are fit to raise children, and in the event they are not, it's then a public responsibility.

Perhaps a government regulated course, exam and continued monitoring system is required before people can become parents would be in order.

[Zigatoh]

Wooaahhhh

Are you saying that it's a government responsibility to ensure parents are fit to raise children, and in the event they are not, it's then a public responsibility.

Perhaps a government regulated course, exam and continued monitoring system is required before people can become parents would be in order.

I was being facetious in response to your trite comment. Nope. I described the sad situation lots of children are in. And I asked two questions. Is that fair on the child? And if not what would you do about it?

I see a lot of waffle about corrupt government and freedom but little acknowledgement that their may be an obesity problem and bugger all suggestions to start fixing it!

[PigFish]

Hmm. OK. (texting while driving is illegal over here btw pigfish, because it is an example of stupid people endangering others)

So. Being obese at age 4, and all the inherent risks that go with that as you get older. At 4 the old excuse that he buys stuff for himself which can't be controlled. Well that can't be right, not at 4? And there are some conditions that could cause it, thyroid etc, but what are the odds, pretty low compared to how many we're talking about here. So the parents really should be aware of Everything their child is eating.

So is it fair to a child, that has no control over what they are fed, but their life could well be irrevocably altered for the worse, hell they could develop diabetes in their pre teens! Is that fair?

And it's not just the government telling us these kids are fat! I see them every day, puffing and panting at the effort of walking!

So unless you think this is fair on a toddler or pre-schooler, what would you do about it??

All in all, life is not fair, perfect nor safe! Accept it and live free or surrender to egalitarian masterminds and live as their slave and with the same risk an inequity!

The best place for kids is with their parents, imperfect as they are, two of them, male and female where someone with values raises them to be good to themselves and to others. Government will never be that, nor do that!!! Never...

Poverty today means an iPhone, cable TV and enough money to eat fast food. The poorest people are also some of the most addicted, poorest health and fattest. Make 'em get a job!!!! Stop feeding them for free to get fatter and make them give up the $200 sneakers to pay for their own doctor!!!

That my friend is one way to start solving the problem...

Next, get the government out of the school system! Stop teaching our kids that they are 'owed' something from society that they don't contribute to and that losing is as good as winning. Maybe when kids start picking on fat kids again, some of them will lose weight!!! Ever think of the old "free market" approach? You coddle and protect the fat kid with your PC crap, then blame the sugar company on his health... Jesus, is this not obviously a scapegoat?

No, we call them bullies and tell little fat Jonny it is okay... The free market works mate. I am no slender man, I am not built that way and when I wanted to get laid in school I took the fat off! It played a large part in ruining my joints (sports, working out etc.) but I am a better man for it. Today I still change my own oil, mow my own lawn, and build my own home additions...! I AM A F'N MAN!

Give freedom a chance and stop coddling people at my expenses. Your way of thinking gets us less freedom, and less joy in life. It makes it harder to fire a bum, thin out the fat kids, and robs the fat kid of the pride of personal achievement. In your world mate, achievement is punished and failure is rewarded as there is never personal responsibility as long as there is a corporate scapegoat. When people start working at their own problems and mistakes then they are the better for it. It worked for me and generations before me and it would work today if you and many like you stopped believing that life would be better run by a Utopian mastermind!!!

By the way. That mastermind likely failed at work, and is in government as a result. His kids are fat, he has been divorced several times and likely drinks to fall asleep. Men are not Gods... I would have to say that most in politics are not even men, while they may be male!

Thanks for asking! -Piggy

[Guest]

their may be an obesity problem and bugger all suggestions to start fixing it!

This is the whole point, my man. The crux of the matter, if you will.

It's not the government's responsibility to save us from ourselves.

I don't know how else to articulate this point.

[Zigatoh]

Some bloody good points there piggy, and thank you for a decent and well thought out response.

"where someone with values raises them to be good to themselves and to others."

I think this is where things begin to fall apart. In the case of this thread I believe "be good to themselves" includes nutrition and exercise. Though I also believe that this just isn't happening any more for a large portion of society, or if it is then the 'values' aren't the ones I know!

I still think this tax is a good thing, if the money goes to the places promised, but then sugar never really held a draw for me, even as a kid I'd ask for a second round of sarnies instead of desert :-)

[Zigatoh]

This is the whole point, my man. The crux of the matter, if you will.

It's not the government's responsibility to save us from ourselves.

I don't know how else to articulate this point.

So we just sit back and watch it happen? Tbh it's all going to happen anyway but still, a bit of kicking and screaming on the way is traditional right?

[Guest]

I should probably add at this point - I don't even drink sugared soft drink, ever!! I hate the stuff, and haven't had one in years.