Best set it and forget it system

[capitalpg]

Agree with post #4 and subsequently #9. Skip a box purchase...

[mcease022]

Agree with post #4 and subsequently #9. Skip a box purchase...

I dont have to :-). I purchased a humidistat and wired up my own system. (under $100) Solid humidity throughout the cabinet. I just set it up so I will see if there is any fluctuation over time. Thanks for the posts guys.

[PigFish]

Ray,

I can't stress enough how much I hate thermoelectric coolers for cigars. I had a nightmare situation over the summer where one of my coolers lost it's ability to cool, but the thermoelectic unit ran continuously for possibly weeks. I feared the damage that this malfunction had caused proved fatal to about 30 boxes of cigars, but I'm happy to say MONTHS later they have recovered. I have made the decision to forego any sort of active temperature management in my "active" humidors until I find a solution. Additionally, I feel a minimalist approach is best in most circumstances after my experience. If temperature control is not a possibility for someone, or like me a preference, what's the sliding scale for rh% based on temperature. Another way to put it is if you enjoy your cigars at 62% at 70F, if you had to keep your cigars at 84F, what would the ideal rh% need to be for them to have the equivalent water content to smoke and age in the same way? I too used to keep my crappy thermo units at 70F and about 60%rh... Now that I'm at 75F what should be my target rh?

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this my friend. My writing takes more time than I can always grant...

I am really glad that you brought this up for a number of reasons.

First, in order to cut to the chase, I cannot answer this with any verifiable accuracy. I wanted to get that out first because I feel that this may turn into a lengthy post. I am not big on letdowns so I might as well cough it up first. With that in hand, please read on because I am going to get to what I can do…

Next, I want to give you kudos for your linking of both temperature and humidity to cigar condition and the smoking experience. Yeah mate, I know that I am not speaking to a novice here, so forgive the appearance of this ostensibly “patronizing” response. I mention it only because these threads have life beyond the both of us and newer smokers will read them now and into the future. There is still a lot of misinformation on the net about how rH is ‘all that matters’ to cigar condtions, and I am constantly waging battle against that myth. I have known you long enough to know that you know the facts, but my posts are not just geared at those whom (already) know!

I think that you have also done a good service by sharing some of your experience, and therefore the pitfalls of TE coolers. Very few people take me at my word on this topic. They see only the advantage of the “cost benefit” bolstered by hearsay, myth and poor advice regarding TE coolers that you can find all over the net in cigar communities. Amongst their many faults, if a TE cooler fails to cool on the hot side, it will disperse its energy from both sides of the device. I don’t know that this is what has happened to you, to make you walk away from TE coolers, but it has happened to me. One of my TE cooler devices turned one of my projects into an “EasyBake” oven for cigars. I caught it within hours in my situation, but it had already taken my cigars from 70F to above 80F with no apparent top. Lord knows what would have happened to my cigars if left in there for days!!!

To get to your specific question, in order for me to really answer it with accuracy, I would need a year of research time, a water bath environment, a water activity meter and a chilled mirror hygrometer calibrator. Oh, and don’t forget the ‘couple of boxes’ of cigars to destroy for the experiment. To be frank, I really want to pursue this someday but the cost of the equipment alone (if purchased, not considering leasing) is over 20K. I don’t have that kind of time and money today to pursue this interest but I would if I could. It really does interest me that much!!!

So what can I do? I will tell you and you can decide if it has merit or value.

I have often wandered into this realm in the past, just looking for baseline numbers for me to work with. While I was not looking for what you are looking for, I was looking to correlate my numbers (which are pretty stable) to get a percentage moisture content number. While it has always interested me to create a “universal rH/moisture content table, I an blessed with the luxury of knowing where I like my cigars stored (via years of empirical testing) and the luxury of being at the cutting edge of humidor development. This allows me to store my cigars in some of the worst conditions at the edge of the envelope, and keep them perfectly. When you have that luxury you don’t always take on the tasks that you would explore otherwise. I don’t need to look for other answers, but that does not really dampen my curiosity.

Over the years I have collected a vast amount of tobacco storage, transportation and processing related data. I have “white papers” regarding the hygroscopic nature of tobacco coming out my ears. I literally have more data than the time to read it and research it all. Finding and acquiring the data has been is part of the battle, but reading it, digesting it and correlating it to cigars is the far bigger half. Now the caveats… The data that I have, a lot of it ranges from 30 to 70 years old. Next, the majority of this data comes from the mainstream tobacco industry, which means the cigarette industry and it is not specific to cigars. You see cigars are largely controlled by those steeped in tradition. Where-as cigarettes are mass-produced and development data is driven by cost reduction, production speed and automation integration.

First and foremost then, you have to look past the fact that cigar tobacco and cigarette tobacco are not the same. They are not processed the same, nor even the same strains of tobacco. It is of course still ‘tobacco’ and that is where I hang my hat, rationalizing the fact that it is more alike than different. That is of course an assumption.

With that understanding, what I have are some experimental documents including some isosteric charts of percent moisture content of tobacco, empirically tested, calculated and charted. Some of these experiments, as I said date back to the 50’s. Extrapolation this data then is not then a precise means to come to an accurate estimation. Now it could be very accurate, but again, it might be way off the mark. That needs to be understood.

So what I have done, and I did this some years ago, is plot some of this data and curve match it in AutoCAD. What that allows me to do, is extrapolate data to get first a corresponding PMC model for our taste (yours and mine are the same here, I also store cigars at 70/60rH) and then move the lines accurately to look for numbers that are outside the realm of the original experiments. IF this method is meritorious, then we should be able to move the known data in order to get information on temperatures and rH values not tested.

Like I said, this data may be ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS…. BUT, if you assume that I have made the correct calculations in moving the curves AND that tobacco is more alike than different with it comes to water adsorption, then the data may be really worthwhile.

What I have to do is find the original CAD files that I have somewhere. If I can find them, I can screw with the lines and see where it lands when they cross at 75/XX rH. If you think that will do you good, I will look for the CAD files the next couple of days and see what I can do!

Cheers! -Piggy

[Orion21]

God I love reading your posts! If it isn't an inconvenience then I would love to know. My humidors are now kept in a climate controlled room that is 75F all year round. Knowing the rh% will at least make me feel better and then I can perform the "smell test" to see if they smoke the way I remember. Cheers and thank you!

[PigFish]

I will look for the CAD files!

Cheers! (and thanks for the complements) -Ray

[ElAbogado]

I always find it strange when people try to spend as little as possible on their humidification systems for a large humidor. You're going to be putting thousands of dollars worth of cigars in there. Skip buying a box and spend the money on a quality set up.

This. This. A thousand times this!!

[Bsonwine]

On 1/29/2016 at 5:28 PM, PigFish said:

I will look for the CAD files!

Cheers! (and thanks for the complements) -Ray

I just got to the end of an excellent mystery and the last page is missing with who done it?

 

[Philc2001]

On 1/27/2016 at 2:27 PM, CanuckSARTech said:

For what it's worth, I use a mix of RH Beads and a Cigar Oasis unit.

That said, the Cigar Oasis reservoir as standard is kinda junk. The green foam is meh, and molds up easily. Carve out the foam, and replace with the superabsorbent polymer crystals - moisture transfer is much better, holds more water, more mold resistant, etc., etc.

Thread is here: http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=112435&hl=coolerdor

Exactly what I use.

[PigFish]

1 hour ago, Bsonwine said:

I just got to the end of an excellent mystery and the last page is missing with who done it?

 

... if you are talking about that chart, it has been posted several times here.

I finally got tired of explaining it, and made a video for the topic. It to is posted on the site probably a dozen times. Lets make it a dozen and one, shall we? -LOL

-Piggy

[dominattorney]

I live in Colorado and ambient humidity is roughly 40% if I'm lucky in my basement.  I have a 1000 count cabinet and the cigar oasis stuff was not cutting it.  I reached out to the guys at Avallo and for $300 they sent me a 2 cannister set and forget system with a humidity sensor and 4 computer fans for air distribution.  That thinng works like dynamite and I can't recommend it enough. 

[earthson]

Fat-ass cooler with 2 nylon sacks of humidity beads and a couple desktops with humidity beads.

I think I end up adding water 2-3 times a year - all run like a Swiss clock.

I supposed I could add a fan into the cooler, but due to smoking and buying, the boxes get rearranged twice a year or so, so I'm not too worried about air circulation - I would imagine opening the sealed lid turbulently mixes the air every couple weeks, so it's good enough for me.