End of a sport

[kuma]

Pro football will end up being a caricature of itself. Worst case it will end up like boxing here (US) and in the world. People

could give a rats ass about it. Best case it will be on par with Pro Wrestling (WWE) as an action sport.

The lawsuits will kill it. Just look at how they train now. One a days instead of 2 or 3 full contact practices.

Because they have basically no contact during preseason (saving themselves for reg. season) they (players)

get hurt even more than years ago. Just lookup the stats on this. Can be found on the net. How is Penyton Manning's fused

neck going to be feeling in 5 or 10 years from now. Can't protect the head enough. Love the sport but it is not

long for this world.

[LLC]

Way to much money being made for them not to figure it out.

[Ken Gargett]

Pro football will end up being a caricature of itself. Worst case it will end up like boxing here (US) and in the world. People

could give a rats ass about it. Best case it will be on par with Pro Wrestling (WWE) as an action sport.

The lawsuits will kill it. Just look at how they train now. One a days instead of 2 or 3 full contact practices.

Because they have basically no contact during preseason (saving themselves for reg. season) they (players)

get hurt even more than years ago. Just lookup the stats on this. Can be found on the net. How is Penyton Manning's fused

neck going to be feeling in 5 or 10 years from now. Can't protect the head enough. Love the sport but it is not

long for this world.

manning's neck will probably cause him problems for the rest of his life. i see he got an extra $2 mill for the win v the pats. buys a lot of health care and neck pillows.

i do think there will need to be some tinkering but no chance it dies. in ten years, it will be even bigger.

i used to enjoy the sport when i could get little more than the scores two days later in the results pages of the local newspaper. now i can watch any game live. fabulous.

they are looking at a team in london and who knows where else. teams are worth far more than they were ten years ago. salaries are through the roof. the money involved is almost beyond comprehension. i've no doubt plenty of mums will have their kids play something else. but 99% of those kids were hardly ever destined for the NFL anyway. plenty more will see it as a way out of poverty. plenty more just love the game.

it will not only thrive but be around long after everyone on this forum is worm food.

[Orion21]

Ken brings up a good point. Over-expansion will be what kills the sport, not head injuries. If the product is diluted down to nothing, assuming mostly talent from the USA, people will lose interest etc.

[SCgarman]

The whole idea of a London based team is absolutely ridiculous. You think about the logistics of shipping cigars is challenging, how about a whole NFL team based across the pond??!!

[Shrody234]

There's only one place the NFL is going and that's up. In 5-10 years it will be a bigger attraction as it expands globally. Just look at the past few years and how more games are being played in other countries. The NFL has made it clear they want to expand all over the world and have already done so. In due time there will be a team in London.

Knock the NFL all you want for how they constantly botch their P.R. dealings. It's a circus at times, no doubt. But at the end of the day (and season) they generate sickening amounts of money--it's not going anywhere.

[LLC]

I think the quantity and quantity of talent in College football continues to grow and that's what feeds the NFL, adding a few teams won't be a problem.

[Ken Gargett]

The whole idea of a London based team is absolutely ridiculous. You think about the logistics of shipping cigars is challenging, how about a whole NFL team based across the pond??!!

with our local league comp, we have teams from victoria, nsw, qld and nz. they make it work.

with our rugby competition - super xv - and now elevated to something more, there were teams from nz, australia and south africa (now add in japan and argentina). there is way more travelling in that.

what would appeal to the NFL is the idea of expanding the market, which could bring in massive dollars. also, the time zones mean that there will be another game to be televised at a different time and so can add to the revenue and viewer audience. if the NFL think it worthwhile from a dollars perspective, it will happen. presumably the cost of a plane or two to cart everything back or there, will be peanuts to these guys. no one, or rarely, plays for their "home team" anymore. so what is the difference from a bloke born in boston playing for the chargers, to one born in boston playing in london?

[danny]

I have to agree with the NFL going absolutely nowhere. The amount of revenue the league generates in 16 games a year, not including the postseason per team, is incredible. Times have changed, and so have the rules, but the league will become that much more high scoring and entertaining. Much like how the NBA was before being a little hands-on on defense or trash talking didn't warrant a foul or technical. Both will become softer and softer but everyone will just get used to it.

[danny]

The whole idea of a London based team is absolutely ridiculous. You think about the logistics of shipping cigars is challenging, how about a whole NFL team based across the pond??!!

At first, I was on the same boat. But given that a flight from the East Coast to London is about the Same as the East Coast to the West, let alone the money and global appeal it would generate, its a potential gold mine for the league.

Would love see global football (soccer) gain some steam though and have a Champions League worthy team from the States. Now that would be more exciting to me.

[mygar]

At first, I was on the same boat. But given that a flight from the East Coast to London is about the Same as the East Coast to the West, let alone the money and global appeal it would generate, its a potential gold mine for the league.

Would love see global football (soccer) gain some steam though and have a Champions League worthy team from the States. Now that would be more exciting to me.

I agree im a soccer fan... much more exciting to me. Granted im bias...my son has played soccer since 5 and plays at a hi level for a state team.

We are on that competitive train... and the amount of commitment and resources being put into our youth soccer seems overwhelming at times. I hope US soccer continues to grow so that we can be more competitive on the world stage.

Also hope to watch my son be a part of it.

[mygar]

A lot of former greats would not put a football helmet on their kid. That says a lot imo...

Interesting article

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/opinions/superbowl-50-future-football-bass/?iid=ob_homepage_10-test_featured_pool&iref=obnetwork

[Ken Gargett]

A lot of former greats would not put a football helmet on their kid. That says a lot imo...

Interesting article

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/04/opinions/superbowl-50-future-football-bass/?iid=ob_homepage_10-test_featured_pool&iref=obnetwork

no doubt but there will always be plenty wanting the opportunity.

think of it like the dangers of smoking - touch wood. we all know that we would be safer not smoking cigars and yet we do, for whatever reason.

people know it would be safer for players not to be involved with football. won't stop them.

and remember, most of us scream nanny state when the govt tries to restrict our smoking. plenty will scream if there are attempts to limit football.

one thing i'd like to raise. when i lived in the states, baseball was considered to be the major sport of the country. not speaking number of players, more the level of interest. to me, baseball was always cricket-lite and i much preferred football.

now, and i speak as an outsider, it seems that football has well overtaken baseball. is that correct or am i wrong?

[Tobbot]

I won't argue that NFL is dying.... It seems certain to me, that if anything, it's popularity will grow. However, they have lost me as a fan. I just can't stomach all the moving of teams that is happening now. I feel for any St.Louis, Oakland, and San Diego fans! This SB will be the last game I watch unless Manning returns, and that seems highly unlikely. Go Broncos!!! (one last time)

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[Ken Gargett]

I won't argue that NFL is dying.... It seems certain to me, that if anything, it's popularity will grow. However, they have lost me as a fan. I just can't stomach all the moving of teams that is happening now. I feel for any St.Louis, Oakland, and San Diego fans! This SB will be the last game I watch unless Manning returns, and that seems highly unlikely. Go Broncos!!! (one last time)

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i can understand that. we rarely have that problem here - it does happen but not at all common.

that said, how common is it in the NFL. we have the rams moving back to LA - very tough on the city. but they were in LA before. what really concerns me about that is it shows how little one can trust kroenke and as he is largest shareholder at arsenal, who knows what that could mean for the currently less than glorious gunners.

others that i can think of are browns moving to baltimore (mid 90s?), which effectively filled in for the colts going to indy. not sure if the current browns was a new/expansion team or a team moved there? and then the raiders moving.

i know there might be more moves but nothing definite yet - given the lack of success NFL teams have in LA, you'd be wary.

if i am correct, and i have no idea if i am, that means that it is 20 years since it last happened and a further ten years before that (yes, you'd prefer never). so is it that big a deal?

[planetary]

Football has indeed overtaken baseball. A case of appeal to the growing anti-intellectual movement and post-WWII militarism in the country. None of which is to say that baseball was a shining beacon of Philosophy - but I think it undeniable that it is a sport of longer and richer narratives. Football instead appeals to instant gratification and "sudden death". Where baseball feels more like a Greek polis, football calls to mind the coliseums of Rome.

As it has done with Christmas, one may note that capitalism will eat away the body of the thing, leaving behind only the bare, carrion-pecked bones of Halftime. The body of the game can be twisted into whatever shape, as long the vehicle of commerce remains.

[Tobbot]

i can understand that. we rarely have that problem here - it does happen but not at all common.

that said, how common is it in the NFL. we have the rams moving back to LA - very tough on the city. but they were in LA before. what really concerns me about that is it shows how little one can trust kroenke and as he is largest shareholder at arsenal, who knows what that could mean for the currently less than glorious gunners.

others that i can think of are browns moving to baltimore (mid 90s?), which effectively filled in for the colts going to indy. not sure if the current browns was a new/expansion team or a team moved there? and then the raiders moving.

i know there might be more moves but nothing definite yet - given the lack of success NFL teams have in LA, you'd be wary.

if i am correct, and i have no idea if i am, that means that it is 20 years since it last happened and a further ten years before that (yes, you'd prefer never). so is it that big a deal?

You make some good points.

I'm glad you brought up Kronke...he also owns Colorado Avalanche. As an Avs fan, I know what it's like for him to become disinterested in your team (obviously nothing like what he did to St. Louis). For sure...be very afraid if you're a fan of one of his team's.

About Cleveland... That was '95/96 season when they packed up and went to Baltimore. There's a great "A Football Life" episode about this ('95 Cleveland Browns is title, I think). Before watching this I had tons of respect for Bellicheck as a coach, his comments about Model and what move did to team and fans, I find refreshing as hell...Good for you Bill Bellicheck!

Yes, I hear you Ken, that it hasn't happened much but when it does happen, it's always the "little guys" taking it in the shorts. As a "little guy" I guess I'm just fed up. Yes, I'm gonna take it in shorts, but I'm done paying for the privilege. I work for a major conglomerate and see everyday what $ 1st type decisions get us. I think I'll dedicate myself to keeping my free time as free of theses bastards as possible.

...a few other things played into my decision. My nephew has shown some ability in football the last couple years. His grades aren't good so he's not being recruited, but (imo) who knows how far he could go (with alot of hard work). He has decided (I think) to not play college ball, and after examining my motives a bit, I support him completely.... How can I try to influence him when in 20 years, who knows, maybe he is sacrificing his brain!...all for the glory of his (our) name???

Another factor... I quit smoking cigs @ first of year and all the NFL team moving news broke at just the right time when I'm feeling all empowered and s**t about stopping cigs, hahaha.

All in all...I guess it just time... I'm done with NFL! Next... DirecTV... You are now put on notice, hahaha.

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[Ken Gargett]

You make some good points.

I'm glad you brought up Kronke...he also owns Colorado Avalanche. As an Avs fan, I know what it's like for him to become disinterested in your team (obviously nothing like what he did to St. Louis). For sure...be very afraid if you're a fan of one of his team's.

About Cleveland... That was '95/96 season when they packed up and went to Baltimore. There's a great "A Football Life" episode about this ('95 Cleveland Browns is title, I think). Before watching this I had tons of respect for Bellicheck as a coach, his comments about Model and what move did to team and fans, I find refreshing as hell...Good for you Bill Bellicheck!

Yes, I hear you Ken, that it hasn't happened much but when it does happen, it's always the "little guys" taking it in the shorts. As a "little guy" I guess I'm just fed up. Yes, I'm gonna take it in shorts, but I'm done paying for the privilege. I work for a major conglomerate and see everyday what $ 1st type decisions get us. I think I'll dedicate myself to keeping my free time as free of theses bastards as possible.

...a few other things played into my decision. My nephew has shown some ability in football the last couple years. His grades aren't good so he's not being recruited, but (imo) who knows how far he could go (with alot of hard work). He has decided (I think) to not play college ball, and after examining my motives a bit, I support him completely.... How can I try to influence him when in 20 years, who knows, maybe he is sacrificing his brain!...all for the glory of his (our) name???

Another factor... I quit smoking cigs @ first of year and all the NFL team moving news broke at just the right time when I'm feeling all empowered and s**t about stopping cigs, hahaha.

All in all...I guess it just time... I'm done with NFL! Next... DirecTV... You are now put on notice, hahaha.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

i think i have seen that episode.

understand the thoughts. i have seen 100s of qld reds rugby games. stood on sidelines, followed then interstate and even overseas, waited ages in pouring rain. i have seen them as the best provincial side in the world (hell, they beat a full strength all blacks side back in the 80s and the all blacks could not even score a try against them), win super titles and also be utter crap. still kept fronting up.

but the way the management has been treating the team, the famous history and especially the fans, of late, when the long term season tickets run out, hard to see me renewing them. enough.

[Ken Gargett]

Football has indeed overtaken baseball. A case of appeal to the growing anti-intellectual movement and post-WWII militarism in the country. None of which is to say that baseball was a shining beacon of Philosophy - but I think it undeniable that it is a sport of longer and richer narratives. Football instead appeals to instant gratification and "sudden death". Where baseball feels more like a Greek polis, football calls to mind the coliseums of Rome.

As it has done with Christmas, one may note that capitalism will eat away the body of the thing, leaving behind only the bare, carrion-pecked bones of Halftime. The body of the game can be twisted into whatever shape, as long the vehicle of commerce remains.

really interesting thoughts.

without wishing to demean baseball, you can imagine why that sport seems so trivial and fluffy compared to a five day cricket test. but i get what you say.

i love both rugby and rugby league but one of the things that attracted me to the NFL was because that game is so much more chess on a field than both forms of rugby (which, as i say, i completely love and can't wait for the seasons to start). granted, violent chess. but i've seen no form of football more violent than state of origin, which is the pinnacle of rugby league. though it is becoming less so, partly from a backlash to gratuitous violence and the endless tv cameras that cover everything but also because the game has become so much faster. if you want to get into all the violence, you'll find the other team has raced away and scored points.

and there are times when tossing a few christians to the lions is all you feel like!

[Tobbot]

Football has indeed overtaken baseball. A case of appeal to the growing anti-intellectual movement and post-WWII militarism in the country. None of which is to say that baseball was a shining beacon of Philosophy - but I think it undeniable that it is a sport of longer and richer narratives. Football instead appeals to instant gratification and "sudden death". Where baseball feels more like a Greek polis, football calls to mind the coliseums of Rome.

As it has done with Christmas, one may note that capitalism will eat away the body of the thing, leaving behind only the bare, carrion-pecked bones of Halftime. The body of the game can be twisted into whatever shape, as long the vehicle of commerce remains.

There are few of us left but I don't think there is anything more beautiful than a major league diamond... And the smells....ahhhh!

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[Akela3rd]

I've been reading this thread with great interest over the last couple of days. What it shows me is that no matter what impositions the corporate dollars or the over-zealous rules make on a game there will always be the fan, the punter, you - the bloke on the side-line in all weathers, happily complaining that it's not perfect. And that is perfect.

An example from English football is the selling of Wimbledon's football club to Milton Keynes (first time in UK) - moved 60 miles north, renamed MK Dons - and in 2002 a bunch if locals started AFC Wimbledon playing amateur football in the lowest leagues and are now mostly professional and very well supported having been promoted 5 times in 9 seasons. The big money took the club away, the fans replaced it with their own.

With regard to rule changes for safety look at rugby union. it went pro, safety rules changed a few things but the game is as fast and furious as ever. Players are bigger, faster, better, hit harder, take a hit better (maybe) so yes, the game has changed from the frankly messy violence of the 70s / 80s but has improved IMHO. You can still watch those old games (Lions in Oz!) cringe and enjoy the blood and guts of it all but be thankful it's changed. Avoiding long term head/neck/spinal injury is paramount nowadays. Not padding up like the American footy boys though, that'd be a step too far. Watch the 6 Nations tournament over the next few weekends, it'll be fun.

[MrGTO]

I for one enjoy the violence. I played college ball as a inside linebacker. It was my job to crush my opponents will to move the ball and I enjoyed every drop of blood I knocked out of people. Football is a dangerous sport, that's why we train like we do. I had to get shirts made for me because of my neck etc. I am still paying for old injuries but I wouldn't take any of it back. I am sad to see football going the way it is but I am sorta old school and change sucks! I don't like skinny jeans either!!!

I understand about the brain injury aspect but you have to understand these guys make stupid money playing a game! I my opinion if the risk is lowered with all these BS rules I think the pay should follow. I'm am tired of the nanny state dictating everything. I would let my kid play football without question. Football is more than just a game especially at younger ages. It teaches kids discipline and how to work together as a team among other things. I think those are great skills you actually will use in your life.

I am rambling now, but I love football and I hate being told what to do by the man!

[kuma]

What people seem or fail to understand is that the major problem with the sport is the HELMET.

It does nothing to protect the inside of the head aka brain. Years ago when the sport was just

starting out they wore no helmet and then a leather garmet. Most serious injuries were very low

with maybe a broken nose or bruised shoulder. Fast forward to 2016 look at all the damaged being done.

The plastic helmet is the reason. Yes, yes I know the players are bigger and faster and in much

better condition. Take away the helmet (plastic) replace it with somethinge else (leather)

and the game might survive. The NFL is going to places like Egland, Iceland (maybe) all of

Europe to gain more profits before the lawsuits kill it. Roger Goodall (NFL Commis.) knows this

and so do the owners. They have to move fast before more lawsuits eat away at

their profits. Owners know it, lawyers know it but it seems the fans are blind and I'm

sure owners / lawyers like it that way. As the dog in the Jetsons barks "rottes of ruck"

sport fan but then maybe soccer is in the cars for you.

[mygar]

Whats interesting are the number of players themselves coming out and addressing the hazards of the game. The players today you cannot claim to be normal human beings. They are bigger, stronger, and faster than ever before. The PEDS used for years and training has created car wreck impacts on a weekly basis. This along with pumping the players up with drugs in the locker room to get them back on the field. Yes you may be 60 lbs heavier and stronger than your predecessors but your cns and brain are not.

The speed and power of the game the last few decades has changed...and the consequences of players health is now documented.... and we will see many more cases in the years to come. Most football players know the odds of becoming a hi earning player... but being a good athlete many play a multiple of sports. They will ask themselves which sport can they play longer and have a chance to make money in... well theres baseball, basketball, etc.

The nanny state will not make the change imo... it will come from the players themselves as they are the ones being crippled.

[Ken Gargett]

I've been reading this thread with great interest over the last couple of days. What it shows me is that no matter what impositions the corporate dollars or the over-zealous rules make on a game there will always be the fan, the punter, you - the bloke on the side-line in all weathers, happily complaining that it's not perfect. And that is perfect.

An example from English football is the selling of Wimbledon's football club to Milton Keynes (first time in UK) - moved 60 miles north, renamed MK Dons - and in 2002 a bunch if locals started AFC Wimbledon playing amateur football in the lowest leagues and are now mostly professional and very well supported having been promoted 5 times in 9 seasons. The big money took the club away, the fans replaced it with their own.

With regard to rule changes for safety look at rugby union. it went pro, safety rules changed a few things but the game is as fast and furious as ever. Players are bigger, faster, better, hit harder, take a hit better (maybe) so yes, the game has changed from the frankly messy violence of the 70s / 80s but has improved IMHO. You can still watch those old games (Lions in Oz!) cringe and enjoy the blood and guts of it all but be thankful it's changed. Avoiding long term head/neck/spinal injury is paramount nowadays. Not padding up like the American footy boys though, that'd be a step too far. Watch the 6 Nations tournament over the next few weekends, it'll be fun.

didn't milton keynes beat man U recently? or am i dreaming? hard to keep track of all the sides that beat them these days.