Amazed at what a difference storing at 58%-60% rh makes.

[stogieluver]

I recently lowered the set/forget active humidifier control on my cabinet from 65% to 60%. The rh has been running between 58%-60%, and my cigars have taken a giant leap in taste and burn quality.

Lots of threads on this subject, so I realize this isn't good for the long term aging stock, but it seems to be a good trade off for me.

[JohnS]

Have you been chatting to our dear brother Ray (Pigfish)? I seem to recall awhile ago that he keeps his cigars at 59RH, but I couldn't recall the temperature. What temperature are you keeping these cigars at?

[stogieluver]

Have you been chatting to our dear brother Ray (Pigfish)? I seem to recall awhile ago that he keeps his cigars at 59RH, but I couldn't recall the temperature. What temperature are you keeping these cigars at?

Piggy and our host both convinced me. My cigar room's temp, and the temp in the cabinet, averages around 68 dF during the winter here on the U. S. Gulf Coast of Alabama. My house is centrally heated/cooled, and the rh inside is an almost constant 55%.

If I recall correctly, Piggy's assertion is that you should store your cigars at this level rather than storing them at 65% and then dry boxing them to make them smoke/taste better. Makes sense to me to eliminate the dry box period. But, again, this low level of relative humidity slows down the aging process of the stock I am aging, which is a large part of my stock. I'm ready to give that up now because these cigars taste and burn so much better.

[FHFinster]

Been keeping mine at around 55% and it's a world of difference.

Funny thing though, I take a bunch of sticks from my 65% wineador and move them to the unhumidified desktop. The sticks from the wineador are so wet, they keep the desktop at a solid 55%.

The rotation is a bit of a pain in the but though.

[Colt45]

But, again, this low level of relative humidity slows down the aging process of the stock I am aging, which is a large part of my stock. I'm ready to give that up now because these cigars taste and burn so much better.

If reducing water content provides a better tasting / burning cigar, might that mean that the "aging process" has "sped up", or that aging is a way to reduce overall water content over time, or that it might be unnecessary all together?

This is not to suggest that cigars can't / don't evolve with time...... just a thought.

[earthson]

Dryboxing itself removes water while long-term aging involves many chemical processes that occur as the cigars cure. The question is how much/many of these chemical processes occur at a quicker (or slower) rate in a dry environment. Not to nerd this discussion right out!

[Fugu]

If reducing water content provides a better tasting / burning cigar, might that mean that the "aging process" has "sped up", or that aging is a way to reduce overall water content over time, or that it might be unnecessary all together?

This is not to suggest that cigars can't / don't evolve with time...... just a thought.

Aging is certainly more than just about water content. But the observations do prove how an important part the absolute water content of a cigar plays for its burn and taste.

For me, smoking a cigar that has been balanced at under 60% rH at room temp. is on the edge to being too dry, with the burn tending to becoming too fast and hot.

We had addressed some of these aspects in the other thread started by Rob, where I had hoped to see a bit more feedback on storage from people in the know.

[Colt45]

The question is how much/many of these chemical processes occur at a quicker (or slower) rate in a dry environment.

Conventional wisdom has typically been that many store cigars for long term aging at a higher humidity than those they are getting ready to smoke in the near term, as the higher humidity retards maturation. I'm more of a proponent of consistent conditions - at least as consistent as I can have them, and that air contact might actually play a greater part.

Aging is certainly more than just about water content.

Of course - my main thought in posing the question is that if one finds that their cigars taste and burn better at a lower humidity, that they are enjoying them in that state, and have that reality revealed to them - how do we now perceive the thought of aging?

Cigars can evolve as they mature - but I'm not sure I believe that aging is universally panacea.

P.S. what are member expectations of aging?

[Fugu]

Of course - my main thought in posing the question is that if one finds that their cigars taste and burn better at a lower humidity, that they are enjoying them in that state, and have that reality revealed to them - how do we now perceive the thought of aging?

Cigars can evolve as they mature - but I'm not sure I believe that aging is universally panacea.

P.S. what are member expectations of aging?

There certainly is no simple answer to that question, I agree. It starts with me not beeing sure about the underlying assumption/ question of:

..., or that aging is a way to reduce overall water content over time, or that it might be unnecessary all together?

Does aging do have an effect on overall water content?!

That's one of the prime questions as it seems. If that were indeed the case, that would mean, a cigar, although maintained at constant storage conditions (humidity/temp) over the years, would become gradually dryer. Ergo - its hygroscopic properties, i.e. its capacity to absorb water, would decrease over time. Is that so? I have no answer to that, but tend to think of 'no', at least not significantly.

There are others, like MRN, who argue that more complex chemical compounds would disintegrate into smaller molecules over time, and that would enhance combustibility. On the other hand, certain oils will polymerize, which - following that rationale - does not necessarily improve combustibility, as this will lead to larger molecules. Combustibility does not depend on absolute molecule size, it will depend on the stability of certain molecular bonds to thermal dissociation. Molecular bonds that dissociate easily, already during normal aging, appear - at least to my logical perception - not be very stable and not be of prime resistance to thermolysis. So, why should the dissociation of the weakest bonds during aging, those bonds that would be broken up anyway by burning, would help combustion, I ask? To me that rather anecdotal statement remains to be proven. However, there appears to be a proof for the more complete combustion, as that seems to be indicated by a whiter ash in older/aged cigars. However, might this more complete combustion perhaps already be explained by a structural change in the cigar/tobacco alone?

I want to say, I don't doubt the effect of aging and its effects on molecular dissociation. There will certainly be an effect on taste, as certain smaller molecules will now be more readily accessible to sublimation/evaporation, those substances which we taste and smell (we don't taste CO2 and water, the main products of a perfect combustion) - but on burn?

Therefore, I guess more than our empirical observations would be needed to clarify that, perhaps even real lab-work for a sound answer.

Just comparing a fresh and an aged specimen of the same cigar, would not help therefore, since

A. even if stored at the same conditions, the water content of the aged cigar might be lower (reduced water-binding capacity, for whatever reason?)

B. the tobacco quality will inevitably not be the same, as we will always be dealing with different harvests.

So, your question, Colt, certainly raises a couple of additional questions.

[eswary]

Just a interesting article on aging and a plug for their product...

http://www.bovedainc.com/solutions/tobacco/aging-cigars/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TonyAccardo]

Cool advertisement. I've used 62% Bovedas for awhile now in my smoke-now wooden box and 65% in my 150qt cooler that is almost filled for the long term. The cooler is kept in a basement that is betwwen 50-58ºF so the humidity is closer to 69-70ºF. The wooden humidor is kept in my closet which is around 70ºF so the humidity is more true to what the percentage says on the Boveda pack.

[Colt45]

So, your question, Colt, certainly raises a couple of additional questions.

So, I've a couple more.......

Why age?

Are Cuban cigars knowingly produced with the intention that they require aging? Why do members age their cigars, and what are the expectations?

[Smallclub]

Conventional wisdom has typically been that many store cigars for long term aging at a higher humidity than those they are getting ready to smoke in the near term, as the higher humidity retards maturation.

Sorry but the exact opposite is true: people who want to slow the aging process store at low temp, low RH, and less oxygen as possible.

As a matter of fact, if you want to speed the aging process, just leave the cigars in a desktop set at moderate or high RH, that you open daily to pick a cigar. That's what I stupidly did with my few Partagas pyramids from 2000, and in 2003 they were already “washed”…

[joejack11]

i prefer 55-62 , my humidor ( refrigerated ) maintains solid 58-60 % and a solid 69-70 degrees.

been running like this for a year. i age in this humi, and sample a cigar out once every 3,6,9 months.

[godpheonix]

since cigars are not all the same i would imagine that they don't necessarily taste better at one fixed humidity level, that's why i try to keep mine at a more balanced level so it does not exclude any type of cigar. For those that don't seem to taste very well when i initially try them, i dry box them next time around, i hardly had any cigars that taste good at high humidity levels though.

as for temp, it really does not seem to matter as long as its within the norms. for most i would think it usually fluctuates a bit because of weather anyway.

[Orion21]

Like my favorite type of cooking the same motto applies to my cigars "Low and Slow"

Sometimes my humidors will touch the mid 50's, but generally they hover between 57%-60%. The main issue that keeps people from trying this method is the look and feel of your cigars will change. My cigars aren't all glossy and mushy like you see in s shop. They are slightly glossy and firm to the touch. However, you can squeeze them with a good amount of force and they give without cracking. They smoke wonderfully and I rarely have burn issues, unless the cigars is poorly rolled.

[NapaNolan]

As a slow smoker, lower humidity is my friend. Early in my smoking career I'd relight cigars 3 or 4 times because I thought I had to keep my humidor at 70%.

[SocaWarrior]

After hearing about the benefits of lower humidity for years, I recently started dry-boxing and I am a believer!

I'm going to move my humidor from 65% to 62% to see if the cigars will be good to go right out of the humidor or if dry boxing is still necessary.

I encourage anyone who lives in a humid climate to try lower humidity (either permanent or dry boxing) if you haven't already.

[pbibby]

I'm glad you touched on this. I noticed this with my cigars recently. I recently have gone to 60-62% and started to worry just a bit. It's not that the cigars are dried out or are cracking, but just that they don't look super oily, etc. I'm with you though, it is startling, and almost made me reconsider. Then, since noticing the difference, I smoked one, and it burned perfectly, tasted great, and was all around perfect. I'm with you. If you can get over the change in appearance, then you will be rewarded.

Like my favorite type of cooking the same motto applies to my cigars "Low and Slow"

Sometimes my humidors will touch the mid 50's, but generally they hover between 57%-60%. The main issue that keeps people from trying this method is the look and feel of your cigars will change. My cigars aren't all glossy and mushy like you see in s shop. They are slightly glossy and firm to the touch. However, you can squeeze them with a good amount of force and they give without cracking. They smoke wonderfully and I rarely have burn issues, unless the cigars is poorly rolled.

[ChefBoyRG54]

I recently changed from 65 to 63 in both cabinets. Already have noticed a pleasant change in burn quality with just this small adjustment. Where I go from here is tbd:)