What Makes the Difference

[cigarbigboy]

So I have two questions I'm still unsure on;

1. Is the "recipe" for a particular cigar, same binder, filler and wrapper, going to be consistent for that particular cigar from factory to factory with the only variability being the craftsmanship (except for the generally understood occasional QC issues where wherever the production place is the "recipe" may go out the door)?

2. Is the "recipe" of the particular marca/line going to be the same for all their vitolas, except for the ratio between binder/filler/wrapper, except, again, for the occasional QC issues? To me, if so, that would mean the vitola would not be that significant. The flavor profile would come from the "recipe" with the largest component part of the taste being the filler, and that would make the whole line of vitolas very similar.

[bbguardsp]

Historically before the Revolution and maybe even today each of the factories in Cuba obtained their tobacco from certain farms. The tobaccos from those specific farms were used to create multiple blends which often had their own brand names. They would mix and match the volado, seco, and ligeros to the specific farm and plot of land. They had to purchase the entire crop from a farmer. There was no "Ill take this seco from this farm and this ligero from that farm" only. An example of this is what we call a "mother factory." For example, Partagas made its own brand as well as Roman Allones and others. Back in the day those brands were created from a select few farms the factory purchased tobacco from each year and through the magic of blending they created different profiles from said tobacco primings and plots of land even though it may have been from just one farm. Vegas Robaina is a newer brand and if it still follows the same principle today (which I have no idea) then it would be comprised of tobaccos obtained from some of the same farms used for Montecristo and H. Upmann as they share the same "mother factory."

[cigarbigboy]

Historically before the Revolution and maybe even today each of the factories in Cuba obtained their tobacco from certain farms. The tobaccos from those specific farms were used to create multiple blends which often had their own brand names. They would mix and match the volado, seco, and ligeros to the specific farm and plot of land. They had to purchase the entire crop from a farmer. There was no "Ill take this seco from this farm and this ligero from that farm" only. An example of this is what we call a "mother factory." For example, Partagas made its own brand as well as Roman Allones and others. Back in the day those brands were created from a select few farms the factory purchased tobacco from each year and through the magic of blending they created different profiles from said tobacco primings and plots of land even though it may have been from just one farm. Vegas Robaina is a newer brand and if it still follows the same principle today (which I have no idea) then it would be comprised of tobaccos obtained from some of the same farms used for Montecristo and H. Upmann as they share the same "mother factory."

That was before the revolution, right? So I'm getting the idea that the different factories would now have some guidance of what the taste profile should be for a marca and vitola, but then source it and manufacture it differently than other factories, making each "version" of the vitola/marca really a distinct entity.

My conclusion, and I could be way off here, is that that explains why there are sometimes dramatically different taste profiles from different factories, though it is the same year and marca/vitola. The difference in profile seems to exceed the difference one would expect from just different levels of craftsmanship.

Obviously, sometimes the blenders do a good job, wherein the uniqueness of a marca/vitola is consistent through different factories. But sometimes that integral quality that defines the marca/vitola is missing, imho.

[NSXCIGAR]

So I guess this means that each factory may well improvise on a given marca/vitola on a regular basis. It isn't just craftsmanship that differentiates one factory from another, but also the component parts. If I understand then a Monte 2 for instance from one factory won't be the same one you'd get from another factory.

How about different tobaccos in different vitolas within a line? I guess they're as unpredictable as the other aspects of production.

I'm not sure if you'd call it improvisation or who ultimately makes the call, either within or outside of the factories, to deviate from the known formulas and QC standards but I'm certain it is done from time to time.

Demand outstripping supply for nearly 20 years and has resulted, at times, in an attitude of "just get product out the door". HSA's not above changing entire flavor profiles in entire brands to please changing tastes and stretch supply (milder Partagas & Bolivar post-1995) or roll up plugged donkey poop from 98-02 just to ship units. HSA learned then that, for the most part, Habanos can sell regardless of quality. Putting a Habanos sticker on any box gives it a magical credibility.

There's always going to be variation among factories and rollers but that isn't what we're talking about here. Habanos is notorious for doing odd things--"cheating" as others have put it--up to and including putting two different bands on the same cigars. I have no doubt in my mind they're capable of using extra VR Unicos as Monte 2 if necessary. And while I ultimately don't believe they are the same cigar or even intended to be the same (most of the time) it can be difficult to argue against it at times by taste alone these days.

As far as the "recipe" question, yes, there should be a recipe or specific blend and tobacco origin for every vitola in every brand produced. But I think there's enough anecdotal evidence and personal experience here to strongly suggest that HSA plays fast & loose with that concept when they feel it necessary to suit their needs at a given time.

[Smallclub]

The difference in profile seems to exceed the difference one would expect from just different levels of craftsmanship.

Obviously, sometimes the blenders do a good job, wherein the uniqueness of a marca/vitola is consistent through different factories. But sometimes that integral quality that defines the marca/vitola is missing, imho.

I disagree totally. In my experience the blenders do a great job, specially in a context of disorganisation, corruption, carelessness, lack of motivation, etc.

[Colt45]

I disagree totally. In my experience the blenders do a great job, specially in a context of disorganisation, corruption, carelessness, lack of motivation, etc.

Yes, it's unfortunate that everyone who gets up and goes to work every day in the Cuban cigar industry is seemingly painted with the same broad brush......

[NSXCIGAR]

I disagree totally. In my experience the blenders do a great job, specially in a context of disorganisation, corruption, carelessness, lack of motivation, etc.

I have to concur. Considering the conditions, facilities and incentive issues the industry and its workers face in Cuba it's actually quite remarkable how well things turn out on the whole. The industry has faced quite a bit of change in 20 years. I do think involving a private entity like Altadis/Imperial has been critical but there are still enormous hurdles to overcome from tilling the fields to shipping the boxes that you have to acknowledge and respect.

[cigarbigboy]

I have to concur. Considering the conditions, facilities and incentive issues the industry and its workers face in Cuba it's actually quite remarkable how well things turn out on the whole. The industry has faced quite a bit of change in 20 years. I do think involving a private entity like Altadis/Imperial has been critical but there are still enormous hurdles to overcome from tilling the fields to shipping the boxes that you have to acknowledge and respect.

I'm not blaming bad blenders. In fact I concur that they do a remarkable job. However they are only as good as their supply of raw materials. If they don't have the ingredients of the recipe so to speak, no matter how good their craftsmanship, their product will not be consistent.

[Scrubber]

I watched James Suckling's doco "Cigars: The Heart and Soul of Cuba" a couple weeks back and I think it had answers for some of your questions. It details the journey of the tobacco from seed to finished product. Very informative.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cigarbigboy]

I watched James Suckling's doco "Cigars: The Heart and Soul of Cuba" a couple weeks back and I think it had answers for some of your questions. It details the journey of the tobacco from seed to finished product. Very informative.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

great documentary. very informative.