Mongrel

[Fugu]

This might have been asked before, but can somebody please define the expression "mongrel" for me, with regard to cigars?

Rob and in particular the Aussie members (am I right?) appear to use it a lot, and from my current understanding it seems to be somehow related to younger cigars. But as I take it, not in a negative way. Is it perhaps a pleasant roughness? Liveliness? Peppery/spicy youthfulness?

I do not quite get it. From the way it is used I got the impression this is meaning something very specific, which can't be easily expressed with another single term. But perhaps you can describe it for me.

Thanks

Paul

[LordAnubis]

For me mongrel in a cigar is "roughness" or strength ever now and then but not consistently. When it hits you in the face, yet you quite like it. It's not mild and mellow and completely expected and boring. It's in your face, throws a left jab when you've already tapped out... that's a mongrel.

[Smallclub]

But as I take it, not in a negative way. Is it perhaps a pleasant roughness? Liveliness? Peppery/spicy youthfulness?

No and yes.

No because for my taste it's ok in a Piedra, Partagas Short/pce/super partagas but it's not pleasant in a Regios or a PLPC or a JL2...

Yes because to my understanding it is what we often name "rough edges". I've never encountered the word before Rob made it popular here

[NSXCIGAR]

"Unrefined" would be my description. No subtlety, no complexity. Just a straight hit. Not necessarily strong or harsh--just present, but difficult to break down in terms of nuanced flavors.

[Guest rob]

I use it to describe a cigar which is marginally 'aggressive'. An RyJ Cazadores is a good example of a consistent mongrel.

A PLPC has a similar, yet more subtle mongrel attributes.

[foursite12]

Feral streaks. The impudence of youth. Often a portent of the refinement that is to come. Mongrel can be delightful in a cigar that you know will mature gracefully as you work your way through the box over time. Mongrel does not describe the strength of a cigar; it is more aligned with 'rough around the edges here and there'.

[luv2fly]

Unrefined and in your face is what I would call it. I like it at times and expect/ appreciate it in some cigars.

[aushy]

I always thought it meant a cigar that had been rolled in that area kind of between China and the USSR. You

know, where Genghis Khan lived. Maybe I'm wrong on that.....

Gotta love a good Mongrolian cigar!

[El Presidente]

Mongrel = strength+ in your face upront flavour which is often unfrefined/one or two dimensional.

[Ken Gargett]

i'm not so much with the "strength" and "in your face" aspects. for me, more about a cigar being unrefined, rough edges. but it can be lovable.

[mk05]

Monsdales are mongrel cigars.

[Ken Gargett]

Monsdales are mongrel cigars.

seriously? i had a monsdale last week. for me, could not have been less like a mongrel smoke. was exquisite and subtle and refined.

[Colt45]

Distinctive, raw character / personality

[MPS]

Fresh Partagas 898

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[mk05]

seriously? i had a monsdale last week. for me, could not have been less like a mongrel smoke. was exquisite and subtle and refined.

Hi Ken, the only Monsdales I had were the strongest, richest, and most intense cigars that I have ever smoked - without any edges. However, they are such mongrels that I can rarely smoke more than an inch.

I have also had other "Monsdales" by name which tasted like Vegueros.

[Ken Gargett]

Hi Ken, the only Monsdales I had were the strongest, richest, and most intense cigars that I have ever smoked - without any edges. However, they are such mongrels that I can rarely smoke more than an inch.

I have also had other "Monsdales" by name which tasted like Vegueros.

i think what we have established is that we all think slightly differently when it comes to mongrel.

mere strength is not enough for me, though it is part of it.

oxford dictionary goes with a dog of no definable type or breed. if we translate that across, presumably if we know provenance then it cannot be a mongrel but i'm uncomfortable with that.

i think of a mongrel dog and it is a lovable, scruffy mutt. so if we get a cigar that lacks grace and refinement but which provides pleasure even though it does have rough edges, and quite possibly personality as per colt, then we are in the ballpark.

the monsdale i had last week - and happy christmas to rob because it was so good i am even thinking of doing a review of it - was refined, lots of power but very much underlying and in an odd way, subtle. the iron fist in a velvet glove, if you like. it was the day after he and i discussed best of the year for the next video and this one leapfrogged all contenders. it was my best of the year. 99 on its head. stunning and completely unexpected.

but i would argue that does not mean other monsdales can't fall into the mongrel category. i would argue you could have any cigar where the occasional one falls into the mongrel class. it may not be intended, and may be out of character for that cigar but no matter.

happy chrissy to all.

[mk05]

mere strength is not enough for me, though it is part of it.

...refined, lots of power but very much underlying and in an odd way, subtle. the iron fist in a velvet glove, if you like.

You have a way with words Ken. That is how I was trying to describe the Monsdale. Thank you.

[Ken Gargett]

what was interesting about this one was (i really will try and do a full review but the christmas panic in full swing) that i have had a few from the bundle i got recently (think i got 15 or so?) and i have enjoyed every one but nothing to give any indication that this was coming. they were good, decent though not overly memorable cigars.

fired this up at home with a movie. was not looking for anything stellar, just a nice smoke.

from the very first puff, i knew this was something out of the box. magic.

i might try another after chrissy lunch tomorrow.

[mk05]

what was interesting about this one was (i really will try and do a full review but the christmas panic in full swing) that i have had a few from the bundle i got recently (think i got 15 or so?) and i have enjoyed every one but nothing to give any indication that this was coming. they were good, decent though not overly memorable cigars.

fired this up at home with a movie. was not looking for anything stellar, just a nice smoke.

from the very first puff, i knew this was something out of the box. magic.

i might try another after chrissy lunch tomorrow.

Ken, I would cherish your remaining cigars. The man has passed on, and there are no more of these treasures. All that remains are counterfeits of similarly sized cigars that taste like Vegueros. While I personally cannot smoke more than a quarter in a sitting, I can attest to how truly special these cigars are.

I think these cigars are purposefully rolled overtly strong, as if to show off the skill of Mons - a testament to the blend. As the smoke initially passes over the palate, I notice the incredible density and intensity of the smoke. It feels like ink and I realize the profound weight of the blend; It behaves like a well-made highly alcoholic wine. As I begin to retrohale nervously, I am confused that there is no ammonia and no pain - the smoke is just a voluptuous, smooth, and silky smoke that plays a video in my mind of rich, golden barley fields and warm, toasted tobacco. Then as I smile, I realize that the cigar is going to kill me. The flavors of each puff is more wonderful than the last, but the body starts to chip away at my tolerance, and eventually I start to keel over. By about two inches in, I am usually found in the shape of a puddle next to a couch.

[Ken Gargett]

Ken, I would cherish your remaining cigars. The man has passed on, and there are no more of these treasures. All that remains are counterfeits of similarly sized cigars that taste like Vegueros. While I personally cannot smoke more than a quarter in a sitting, I can attest to how truly special these cigars are.

I think these cigars are purposefully rolled overtly strong, as if to show off the skill of Mons - a testament to the blend. As the smoke initially passes over the palate, I notice the incredible density and intensity of the smoke. It feels like ink and I realize the profound weight of the blend; It behaves like a well-made highly alcoholic wine. As I begin to retrohale nervously, I am confused that there is no ammonia and no pain - the smoke is just a voluptuous, smooth, and silky smoke that plays a video in my mind of rich, golden barley fields and warm, toasted tobacco. Then as I smile, I realize that the cigar is going to kill me. The flavors of each puff is more wonderful than the last, but the body starts to chip away at my tolerance, and eventually I start to keel over. By about two inches in, I am usually found in the shape of a puddle next to a couch.

great description. about half way, i'm thinking whacko, this is so good i am going to immediately smoke another two straight away. another inch or two and i'm thinking i need to hold on because the room is in motion. i might finish this one but no way will i smoke any other cigar for a month.

[LLC]

Ken, I would cherish your remaining cigars. The man has passed on, and there are no more of these treasures. All that remains are counterfeits of similarly sized cigars that taste like Vegueros.

I still have some monsdales rolled by Mons but also newer monsdales rolled by Jorgito at Club Habana and both are excellent. Of course the one rolled by Mons are special but Jorgito definitely knows how to blend and roll a consistently great cigar.

[MPS]

Ken, I would cherish your remaining cigars. The man has passed on, and there are no more of these treasures. All that remains are counterfeits of similarly sized cigars that taste like Vegueros.

I still have some monsdales rolled by Mons but also newer monsdales rolled by Jorgito at Club Habana and both are excellent. Of course the one rolled by Mons are special but Jorgito definitely knows how to blend and roll a consistently great cigar.

Jorgito is certainly a fantastic roller and probably the best one in the many Havana shops. He has been rolling for LCDHCH for many years already along with another gentlemen because Jorgito has so many health issues bless his soul. In fact it's rare to get a cigar that Jorgito himself has rolled the past two years but people will say anything to sell a cigar. Mons hadn't rolled himself publicly for over a decade before he passed away may he rest in peace. He rolled his own cigars and I was lucky enough to smoke some with him because he became family to me for some years before he passed on. The tobacco selected by Mons for the shop is long gone for public consumption and he had connections like no other in the industry to get what he wanted.

Be careful with these cigars going forward. Just fair warning. I don't recommend them unless you picked them up yourself or your friend does directly for you. Those that have the real ones do not sell them for any price whatsoever because they are irreplaceable, discontinued and pure treasures. JMHO.

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[Ken Gargett]

ame="LLC" post="655600" timestamp="1450948168"]

Jorgito is certainly a fantastic roller and probably the best one in the many Havana shops. He has been rolling for LCDHCH for many years already along with another gentlemen because Jorgito has so many health issues bless his soul. In fact it's rare to get a cigar that Jorgito himself has rolled the past two years but people will say anything to sell a cigar. Mons hadn't rolled himself publicly for over a decade before he passed away may he rest in peace. He rolled his own cigars and I was lucky enough to smoke some with him because he became family to me for some years before he passed on. The tobacco selected by Mons for the shop is long gone for public consumption and he had connections like no other in the industry to get what he wanted.

Be careful with these cigars going forward. Just fair warning. I don't recommend them unless you picked them up yourself or your friend does directly for you. Those that have the real ones do not sell them for any price whatsoever because they are irreplaceable, discontinued and pure treasures. JMHO.

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i believe that mine are "monsdales" but rolled by jorgito. got them on site and was with a mate from havana who is well known to many of us and knows jorgito. that said, i've no intention of selling them (not many left) and whoever rolled them did a fantastic job. so in a sense, it matters not. thanks for the info. much appreciated.

[Fugu]

Thanks gents for a lot of excellent answers. I think I got the hang of it!

No and yes.

No because for my taste it's ok in a Piedra, Partagas Short/pce/super partagas but it's not pleasant in a Regios or a PLPC or a JL2...

Yes because to my understanding it is what we often name "rough edges". I've never encountered the word before Rob made it popular here

Thanks Smallclub, so if I get that right and follow up your example for a single marca, like Upmann, would be ok and very frequently found in a young Mag 46 but much less so in a Mag 50 (or perhaps even more so Mag 48 LE, so to speak)? Could we say so?

i think what we have established is that we all think slightly differently when it comes to mongrel.

mere strength is not enough for me, though it is part of it.

oxford dictionary goes with a dog of no definable type or breed. if we translate that across, presumably if we know provenance then it cannot be a mongrel but i'm uncomfortable with that.

i think of a mongrel dog and it is a lovable, scruffy mutt. so if we get a cigar that lacks grace and refinement but which provides pleasure even though it does have rough edges, and quite possibly personality as per colt, then we are in the ballpark.

Ken, that’s truly a wonderful description, taking into account the original meaning of the word. That was exactly what I was wondering all the time, how at all could this be related to “dog-interbreeding”.

Your answer made it very clear! I think, I will go with that concept, and should I once use it, will certainly think it in that way.

You have a way with words Ken.

I second that!

[RijkdeGooier]

For me 'mongrel' as a marca would mostly be present in younger RA or some P regular production (RASS, RASCC, PSD4, Shorts, Aristicrats).

Strong and straight tobacco taste. A portent of things to

come.

Sometimes found in RyJ #1 and #2 tubos too.