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Posted

I have to chuckle at the box code chasers. There isn't even any consistency within a single box - how should it then be over an entire factory.

  • Like 1
Posted

I have to chuckle at the box code chasers. There isn't even any consistency within a single box - how should it then be over an entire factory.

I agree with you! Let me know if you want to sell more of your LGC Gloriosos. Who needs Gloriosos when you can smoke Quinteros?

Posted

I agree with you! Let me know if you want to sell more of your LGC Gloriosos. Who needs Gloriosos when you can smoke Quinteros?

Only had that one partial box - sorry, bro. My Quinteros auction didn't go so well :innocent:

  • Like 1
Posted

I have to chuckle at the box code chasers. There isn't even any consistency within a single box - how should it then be over an entire factory.

Come on Claus! If you were buying Cohiba would you go with the ones rolled at a regional factory or El Laguito if you had a choice? I don't normally chase box codes, but if I'm going to spend the money on Cohiba I'm damn well going to wait and see which box codes are producing more satisfied customers. I could see the point of discounting box codes completely if we didn't have a resource like Rob posting the best stock every single day because there would be no reference point. But if you know HSA places their top rollers at certain factories to roll certain cigars, then figuring out which box codes represent those factories etc., is not only a challenge/fun, but might just be a valid pursuit.

Posted

Let's say there are 10 box codes per cigar per year, are there actually people who smoke each and every single box code to determine which is/are best? If so, what are the parameters, the variables? Since taste is subjective (no quantification), the research should be considered invalid, nul.

Yes, when Montecristo Double Edmundo came out, I believe we tried from 6 different codes - all blind - and chose one that was head and shoulders better than the field. It was UPE13. When JL#2 was rolled at BMU12 and PSM12, I tried several boxes of each until I chose PSM, because I liked it best. When 2013 came around and Cohiba was good...I smoked everything until I found cigars that I believed were worth hoarding.

I heard stories where people in Cuban factories passed along information on box codes to outsiders who were willing to pay for it. That would imply that some box code(s) represent cigars: better tobacco leaves (better crops, region, attention/care, etc), better rollers (more experience, skill, know-how, etc), better this, better that. A certain, even if indirect, quantification appears - which would imply that yes, cigar boxes do matter?

A long time ago before box codes, all cigar smokers bought without any worries, because cigars were rolled at their casa matriz. As codes were introduced in '85, the aficionados discovered while in Cuba that some would be rolled at provincials or other factories, and not taste as good as the ones from the correct factory. That isn't to say those provincially rolled cigars were horrible, it's because people were used to the taste from one factory over time. It's like drinking Terroir coffee for 8 years and then being shoved a gas station drip coffee in your face. It's noticeable after a while. This is why I say no one knows what a D4 tastes like when you smoke it from 10 different factories over 10 years.

I was fortunate enough to be introduced to several old timers who took the time to tell me what it was like to buy cigars in the '80s-'90s, that everyone in Europe and Asia went to Cuba and selected by codes to ensure quality. Did I believe it at first? No, I thought it was a bunch of bullcrap. Then over the years, they showed me the difference by having me try the cigars. Long story short, I saw how much information and wisdom was lost. Generally, most of the current generation of smokers have no clue what is going on, no historical context, or what taste is. Be advised that we, here as online folk, may have some grasp of historical context, we are still less than 1% of global smoking population - a severe minority. So I am talking in general here.

Posted

Come on Claus! If you were buying Cohiba would you go with the ones rolled at a regional factory or El Laguito if you had a choice? I don't normally chase box codes, but if I'm going to spend the money on Cohiba I'm damn well going to wait and see which box codes are producing more satisfied customers. I could see the point of discounting box codes completely if we didn't have a resource like Rob posting the best stock every single day because there would be no reference point. But if you know HSA places their top rollers at certain factories to roll certain cigars, then figuring out which box codes represent those factories etc., is not only a challenge/fun, but might just be a valid pursuit.

Not commenting on "best stock" - that means very different things to different people.

I don't buy much Cohiba, period - but if I was, I would pick up a box that I inspected MYSELF in a LCDH (luckily, I do have that option with my trips to Europe). If I didn't have that option, I wouldn't be buying Cohiba at all.

Posted

So do box codes matter or not? Some say they do. Other say they don't.

But then you have a thread like this one where there seem to be a magical box code for a certain year.

Like 2013 BTO and MUO 2013-2014.

No. 99 out of 100 guys on this forum would not know the difference from a Siglo VI rolled at El Laguito or on the thighs of a virgin.

  • Like 1
Posted

No. 99 out of 100 guys on this forum would not know the difference from a Siglo VI rolled at El Laguito or on the thighs of a virgin.

I'd wager 100 out of 100.

  • Like 1
Posted

No. 99 out of 100 guys on this forum would not know the difference from a Siglo VI rolled at El Laguito or on the thighs of a virgin.

I wager you both couldn't either. wink.png

And I will throw my hat into that ring as well.

We had the ARG and MUO Esplendido recently. Both supurb mastercases. Not a split difference between either in terms of wrapper and construction. The smoking? For young Esplendidos ...excellent.

If i were asked to pick which one was El Laguito (and I have no idea where ARG is from), i would struggle to do so on a side by side comparison. I would take a guess based on a slightly lighter wrapper. Same sheen on both. maybe one grade colour difference.

  • Like 4
Posted

I've never done a blind side by side test of two cigars from different factories, same cigar and date, much less with any kind of tasting panel.

Personally, the only evidence I have regarding quality of the same cigar between different factories is anecdotal. What I do know is that the differences between factories are not what they were 15 years ago. Draw machines, to use just one example, have been somewhat of a leveler.

Using the Siglo VI as an example. One from Laguito and one from Partagas. What is it that would make a difference? The rollers, the tobacco, the quality control, a mixture of everything?

For those who believe there are differences, and I'm not saying you're wrong, do theories exist regarding the cause?

  • Like 2
Posted

I wager you both couldn't either. wink.png

And I will throw my hat into that ring as well.

We had the ARG and MUO Esplendido recently. Both supurb mastercases. Not a split difference between either in terms of wrapper and construction. The smoking? For young Esplendidos ...excellent.

If i were asked to pick which one was El Laguito (and I have no idea where ARG is from), i would struggle to do so on a side by side comparison. I would take a guess based on a slightly lighter wrapper. Same sheen on both. maybe one grade colour difference.

I have actually smoked codes and prefer ARG. Coincidentally that was the code for some sir winstons last year. However, I do prefer MUO ryj churchills over other ryj.

Posted

I've never done a blind side by side test of two cigars from different factories, same cigar and date, much less with any kind of tasting panel.

Personally, the only evidence I have regarding quality of the same cigar between different factories is anecdotal. What I do know is that the differences between factories are not what they were 15 years ago. Draw machines, to use just one example, have been somewhat of a leveler.

Using the Siglo VI as an example. One from Laguito and one from Partagas. What is it that would make a difference? The rollers, the tobacco, the quality control, a mixture of everything?

For those who believe there are differences, and I'm not saying you're wrong, do theories exist regarding the cause?

I have 2 boxes of Sig VI from 2013 one is BTO and the other I believe is MUR. Obviously they are only two boxes, but they couldn't be more different. If smoked side by side you would think they are different cigars. The BTO box are perfectly constructed with superb wrappers. They have smoked so well it would be a waste to let them age and possibly lose the perfection. The MUR box, while good, has rougher wrappers and the blend is on the harsh side. It has Cohiba DNA, but I won't smoke them right now.

My point in my last comment was if Rob finds a super. Master Case of XYZ cigars and you aren't able to jump on them here using his box code data may help you track down a similar box. I know I've done it before when missing out on the 24:24 or the LITH in the past. But I agree with Rob, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between BTO and ARG blind. But personal preference would be to own El Laguito Cohiba vs a random factory. Right now I know that mainly means buying BHK.

Posted

I have 2 boxes of Sig VI from 2013 one is BTO and the other I believe is MUR. Obviously they are only two boxes, but they couldn't be more different. If smoked side by side you would think they are different cigars. The BTO box are perfectly constructed with superb wrappers. They have smoked so well it would be a waste to let them age and possibly lose the perfection. The MUR box, while good, has rougher wrappers and the blend is on the harsh side. It has Cohiba DNA, but I won't smoke them right now.

My point in my last comment was if Rob finds a super. Master Case of XYZ cigars and you aren't able to jump on them here using his box code data may help you track down a similar box. I know I've done it before when missing out on the 24:24 or the LITH in the past. But I agree with Rob, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between BTO and ARG blind. But personal preference would be to own El Laguito Cohiba vs a random factory. Right now I know that mainly means buying BHK.

That's a fair point. To be devil's advocate though (and that's all I'm being here), it could be possible you got one of the better boxes from Laguito and one of the poorer boxes from Partagas, rather than the quality being consistently different.

Personally I think it's possible that Laguito might have better quality control than Partagas but that's not much more than a guess. Plus I'm biased.

I think a blind taste test could be an interesting thing. 3 cigars of the one kind, say Siglo VI. Precut, to try to remove visual clues, which could cause bias (eg there might be a difference between the factories in how the cap is finished). All that should matter really is flavour and performance of the cigar.

All the same year but from three different boxes, so different wrapper colours. Two cigars from one factory and one from the other, with no indication which factory supplied two and which, one.

4 - 10 tasters, regular smokers, preferably smokers who say there is a difference between the factories.

The tasters would have to rate the cigars and give an answer on which cigars were from which factory.

It's not at all perfect but it could go some way in determining if one factory produces better cigars than another.

  • Like 1
Posted

For a 10 ct box of Sig VI you can only age them so much. I started with a 10ct as well and it ended up lasting me maybe 2 years max because I kept smoking them. I would buy a 25 ct box to age while you sample from the 10 ct box every 6 months or so.

They are great cigars ROTT, just make sure they're not over humidified. I can't tell you how they smoke with 5 years as I'm still aging them myself, but I do agree with the others, the BTO 13's are amazing. I have a box stashed away as well as BTO 13 lanceros so I'll see how they smoke after 5 years.

  • Like 1
Posted

I have 2 boxes of Sig VI from 2013 one is BTO and the other I believe is MUR. Obviously they are only two boxes, but they couldn't be more different. If smoked side by side you would think they are different cigars. The BTO box are perfectly constructed with superb wrappers. They have smoked so well it would be a waste to let them age and possibly lose the perfection. The MUR box, while good, has rougher wrappers and the blend is on the harsh side. It has Cohiba DNA, but I won't smoke them right now.

My point in my last comment was if Rob finds a super. Master Case of XYZ cigars and you aren't able to jump on them here using his box code data may help you track down a similar box. I know I've done it before when missing out on the 24:24 or the LITH in the past. But I agree with Rob, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between BTO and ARG blind. But personal preference would be to own El Laguito Cohiba vs a random factory. Right now I know that mainly means buying BHK.

I would rather a great box of ARG than an average box of BTO or MUO. All things being equal I would go for El Laguito. I like the factorry, the people. I have very few fails in a mastercase (but there are fails). It is a factory that has put it's heart and soul into its product.

Posted

I wager you both couldn't either. wink.png

Oh, I know for a fact that I couldn't. :)

Posted

No. 99 out of 100 guys on this forum would not know the difference from a Siglo VI rolled at El Laguito or on the thighs of a virgin.

Option 2 probably comes in a glass top box !

  • Like 1

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