Cuban Cigar Website – a Conversation with Founder Trevor Leask (Part One)

[JohnS]

In my research of cigars last year I stumbled upon Cuban Cigar Website, an invaluable source of information on all things 'habanos'. I had the pleasure to meet the founder of Cuban Cigar Website in February this year, Trevor Leask. It was at a gathering at his home where I also met the current proprietor of the site, Alex Groom. It was a pleasurable Saturday afternoon, especially with such fine company.

In the short time that I have known Trevor I have greatly benefited from his knowledge on cigars, his generosity with his time and I've enjoyed his and his wife Therese's hospitality. I consider Trevor a friend and mentor, not just to myself, but also to my teenage son, George, who has been grateful for Trevor's insight into his professional life, since he has aspirations to embark upon a similar career.

Recently I asked Trevor to provide an insight into how Cuban Cigar Website came about. Last month, we sat down for a cigar (or two) and a chat based on about ten questions. The resultant 50-minute interview is what transpired. I'm sure you'll find it a unique revelation into what has been and is involved in making Cuban Cigar Website a stand-out resource in the world of Habanos.

I want to thank Trevor for his assistance in bringing this about, especially in the time it took to edit the transcription. The next part of the story of Cuban Cigar Website will involve Rob Ayala (Part Two) and Alex Groom (Part Three).

[JohnS]

Cuban Cigar Website – a Conversation with Founder Trevor Leask

The Beginning

John Stivaktas: Trevor, tell me, cigars as a hobby…how did it start?

Trevor Leask: Basically I’ve always smoked an occasional cigar, usually at a wedding or something similar. I never got around to buying full boxes of cigars until about 20 years ago. That is what started me on cigars. It was Non-Cubans (i.e. cigars that are manufactured outside of Cuba) initially, then slowly onto Cubans.

JS: With Non-Cuban cigars, were you like me, in that you initially went through overseas suppliers and then you worked out over time what you liked and what you didn’t like (in regards to palate)?

TL: Yes. I actually bought some on eBay, which was a bit more flexible back then. I was buying packs of aged cigars and eventually buying boxes of cigars from dealers in the US, and paying the import duty when they arrived here.

JS: Did Customs open them?

TL: Yes, some. I got through better than half of my purchases without paying import duties.

JS: I have to know…did you have a favourite Non-Cuban (cigar) that you gravitated to back then?

TL: The Macanudos (JS - Macanudo claim to be the number one premium cigar in the US today. Part of the reason for this, they state, is that they still follow the centuries - old traditional Cuban method of aging it's Connecticut shade grown wrapper, not once but twice) I had a lot of boxes of those and quite a variety of them…I rather enjoyed those.

JS: Any particular vitola (cigar size)?

TL: Back then I didn’t know too much about vitola sizes…they would have been around a 42 ring gauge and typically 5 or 6 inches long. I bought a few from a dealer in Queensland (it wasn’t Rob Ayala because I didn’t find out about him at the time). That dealer’s attitude was “these Cubans are too dear, you wouldn’t want to worry about them!” but eventually I did!

JS: And then your eyes ‘opened up’, I had a similar experience too. I must ask…once you got into Cuban cigars, like most of us, you probably smoked them straight away to taste (or profile) them and then you would have got into resting them and seeing how they develop once they rest?

TL: Yes, that’s when I decided to put them in with my wine cellar and started buying whole boxes from Rob. This started around March 2006.

[JohnS]

Cuban Cigars and Collecting Information

JS: Prior to your retirement you worked as a (Civil) Engineer. While you were going through your Non-Cuban phase (of cigar smoking) were you working then (or did it come after)?

TL: I was buying boxes of Non-Cuban while working. I retired in 2003 and between then and 2006 is when I moved to Cubans. The basis of the Cuban Cigar Website stated during this period.

JS: What came first… was it a case of classifying Cuban cigars and putting a database together and then the website came…is that how Cuban Cigar Website first started?

TL: No, initially it was just a collection of information for my own purposes. Back then on the internet, there was so much misinformation… a lot of it was because of changes that were going on. Around 2003 a lot of the cigars that are now handmade were then machine-made and up until 2006 when I started putting the website together, people were still convinced that cigars were still being machine-made. When I first started putting data up on the website there were people that would argue against this. And verifying with Cuban authorities (about this) via e-mail proved fruitless. They have never responded to any request of mine.

I got in touch with Simon Chase in the UK; he was with ‘Frankies’ for a while (marketing director of cigar importers Hunters & Frankau). He confirmed that the cigars (in question) were no longer handmade. MRN’s book (An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Post Revolution Havana Cigars by Min Ron Nee – First Edition 2003, reprinted 2005) was published at the time of that interim stage (when they were getting rid of machine-made cigars).

Another example of contention was the packaging codes that Habanos S.A. used. People were convinced at the time that (for example) the ‘N’ stood for the number of cigars and people were making up these (type of) stories to fit the box they had and when you applied that (logic) to other boxes it didn’t work. Eventually, I got a copy of an official document from Cuba via about three people and that’s when the system was finally resolved.

JS: When you started gathering information you started contacting different people. I guess you found some people were very keen to help you, but I know you contacted Habanos S.A. but…

TL: They never responded. Mitchell Orchant provided some information. He also provided me with a few UK Regional Edition samples over the years. Christopher Wolters (LCDH Germany) also sent some German Regional Editions. A couple of the distributors sent me boxes of Regional Edition cigars but that was minor in comparison to what I was putting into the website. I was buying cigars ‘left, right and centre’ to photograph for the website and basically every cigar on the website (up until around 2012/2013) was one that I owned and photographed. I had a photography set-up with a camera on a stand, floodlights and then I’d do photo-editing to ‘clean up’ the images to present them in a uniform manner.

JS: You’ve mentioned photos… was at this point that Min Ron Nee came into it, with his passion for Post-Revolution Havana cigars, and obviously having photographed cigars, did he contact you?

TL: I forget how all that actually started, to be honest! I forget who contacted who. We probably got in contact through the ICC forum where he was a regular contributor there, and then he must have contacted me directly and we have had many subsequent discussions via e-mails.

He was always happy to answer questions, and he always did; but he couldn’t send me any information that Habanos S.A. had given him because it had been done on a confidential basis and he maliciously complied with that. I’m pretty sure it was his suggestion that I could use the photographs from his book on the website.

JS: That must have ‘made your day’!

TL: Oh yeah! He formalised this in a letter. I had the right to use his photographs with a few conditions, which I was happy to comply with. These included keeping the website access free and non-commercial. I never wanted to have ads ‘all over the place’ and it wasn’t until I realised that I would be giving the website over to someone else that I set up a cash donations system toward the cost of running the website. When I handed it over to Alex I had already registered the domain name up until 2009, so that was in place and it has now been transferred to him and he has full control now.

MRN (Min Ron Nee) has also indicated we could use photographs of his Second Edition when it is finally released.

JS: That is very good to hear, it’s very exciting!

TL: Yes. How we’ll do it…I don’t know, but he’s quite happy to do that and in fact he’s told me that he makes regular reference to our website because the information is all in one spot.

[JohnS]

Cuban Cigar Website and Research

JS: Many people do use the website. I go there quite often, as do other member of FoH (Friends of Habanos forum) to get information about ring gauges, vitolas or what year some marca came out. I found even the information on cigar storage, beetles or cigar history on marcas really great. You must have at some point researched that too and put that into the website.

TL: The amount of research I’ve done is phenomenal and it has been done over a number of years. It was only possible because I was retired.

JS: Was it like a 6 to 8 hour a day commitment, 5 days a week; was that how it worked out?

TL: Pretty much. I was regularly in front of the computer. When I started out all the webpages were “static” so if you put data into the main section, then into a list, then into the new release section, you had to enter it three times. If you had to change something you had to go back and edit it three times and this is where it took time and where errors could creep in. It wasn’t until Alex came along and offered to make a database so that information could be put in just.

JS: Was that around 2008?

TL: Yes, that was around 2008. Actually, this started with one of Rob’s ‘Mystery’ cigar competition on the FoH forum. Alex emailed me lamenting the absence of a searchable database. Alex (being a Computer Programmer) offered to setup a database so information could be easily accessible. That of course meant that everything had to be manually re-entered, unfortunately.

JS: It’s like you start off and you come to a certain point, branch out, but you can’t continue on from there…it’s easier to start again…

TL: Yes…everything required a ‘workaround’ so that when we got the cigars on a database it had to be all re-entered. The same thing happened when we decided to do packaging types. These were put in manually and Alex suggested we improve this. This took months to fine tune and check every packing code, but it was well worthwhile.

JS: I like how the website is now set out. Under brands for example, I can easily research current production cigars, discontinued cigars and special releases…it follows an order and you know where you need to go to access information you are looking for…

TL: I wanted to do it that way rather than an ‘A-Z’ (categorisation), which is what MRN’s book does, which is fine, but I wanted the website to be a ‘go-look-see’ (visual thing), it was never meant to be a book. I see books as providing a snapshot of what was current or available at the time on the date the book was issued. This is where the research comes into it…in tracking cigars back and going back to the original sources (to verify information).

For example, one of the things I rationalised was the cigar’s common names.

JS: You mean the difference between common names and factory names (of cigars)?

TL: Not so much factory names, which was related, but more specifically the common names and the sizes. What was a Corona? A Petit Corona? A Double Corona?

US publications by Richard Perelman around circa 2000 appeared to be the standard on common names. This was acknowledged as being adapted from a 1990 publication by Paul Garmirian, which was in imperial measurements and catered for the then trend towards smaller cigars. Robustos for example, only had a single size classification.

I classified Robustos as Petit Robusto, Robusto, Robusto Extra, Double Robusto, & Giant Robusto (five classifications). This gave the sizing some logic. The table was related it back to Cuban cigars, using metric lengths and got rid of the American terms, such as ‘Toro’.

JS: Yes, this is still used to term a Non-Cuban 6-inch by 50 (and 52) ring gauge cigar…

TL: Yes,

JS: So, that has me thinking. I know from my reading that one of the more popular vitolas among cigar enthusiasts is the Corona Gorda, a 46 ring gauge by 143 mm cigar. I can name among marcas the Punch Punch, San Luis Rey Serie A or H.Upmann Magnum 46, for example, as Corona Gorda cigars. Were these termed that way around then?

TL: Yes. The official factory names were all known, although not necessarily known that well to the public. The factory vitola name does not occur on any packaging.

JS: That’s right!

TL: You have the commercial name and then you’ve got the common name which people call them. As an example, Cohiba make a Robusto, which is its Commercial name. Its factory name is also Robusto and its common name is Robusto, so you need to be clear about which term you are using if you call something a Robusto.

JS: When you say Piramide I understand that it’s a cigar that has a 52 ring gauge by 5 inches or 156mm long, like a Montecristo No.2…

TL: Yes, well that is the classic definition of a Piramide, the Montecristo No.2. There are several cigars which have classic sizes. I had to make sure that existing common names were maintained.

[JohnS]

Rob Ayala and Chuck Vaughan-Lloyd

JS: I've read how no-one has criticised your work on the site, although they may have e-mailed you over time in regards to errors. I want to know that at the time you were sorting out classifying vitolas was Rob Ayala 'in the picture' in regards to the website?

TL: He was probably after this point. I sorted most of this before I put it on a website and approached Rob. I don't think I had actually talked to him before. I basically introduced myself, by e-mail, and told him I created what I cleverly called a Cuban Cigar Website (both JS and TL laugh).

JS: (Still laughing) Well that's what it is!

TL: Yes very inventive but that's what it was. I gave him a link and asked him if I could publicise it on the forum. Apparently he had a look at it and said, "Absolutely".

JS: Was that around 2009 or 2010?

TL: No, that was well before Alex got involved (in 2008).

JS: 2007?

TL: 2006. The first version of the website was only around for three or four months before I made major changes. This charge mainly came from suggestions from Chuck, one of the moderators who has since passed away

JS: Chuck (Vaughan-Lloyd, known on FoH as Tampa1257)

TL: Chuck was quite interested in the website. He gave me a lot of information and constructive criticism which was excellent because it all made sense, he'd been around that long and had fantastic experience. The advantage of a website (as distinct from a book) is that I could make instant corrections and improvements.

JS: Yes, you (find) you're open to new ideas or knowledge, you're not confined to certain agendas

TL: I had my idea of what worked for me but if other peoples suggestions were better I adopted them. And virtually everything we've developed (for the site) has come out of peoples requests. Again, that's why its been so successful, because people wanted information that suited the way they wanted to use it and that is what Alex is doing now. He's taking that next step and doing something that I've never visualised of...putting the inventory section in.

[JohnS]

The Inventory and Sampling and Enjoying Cigars

JS: That’s what I’ve done. You can logon to the website and use it to list all your cigars.

TL: That’s totally Alex’s idea. It’s excellent; it represents the next stage of development for the site. I never had much of an idea of what I wanted to do (with the progression of the site), it sort of developed. I knew the things I didn’t want to do. I didn’t want to put reviews on because there are forums everywhere that do reviews and there’s already a Cigar Review site which just does cigar reviews. I personally don’t make use of reviews if I’m going to buy a cigar.

JS: I agree. From my point of view, from the relatively short time that I’ve been smoking cigars, I’ve smoked a range of cigars across a number of marcas with various flavour profiles and some of these might be considered slightly sweet or slightly spicy and I don’t mind either one but my palate gravitates towards the ‘cream’ or the ‘cocoa’. I started off with (smoking) Cohiba and Montecristos, and I don’t know why, I’ve gone through various marcas but Cohiba still remains my favourite, and I like Montecristos…in fact, I don’t mind ‘floral’ ones but I know what you are saying. If you go to cigar review sites you’ve got people who have their palate preferences and they might favour certain marcas while others they don’t. I know of people, who for whatever reason, don’t like Bolivars. Now Bolivar is very popular, whether it’s because they are full-bodied or whatever…

TL: They may not be market leaders but they’ve got their followers and they’ve got a taste that obviously some people like. I equate it to saying there’s no point in being adamant in what you like to eat and then eating the same thing every day of the year!

JS: Yes, I’m with you…always be open to try something (in a cigar)…

TL: Yes that is why I like to smoke a bit of everything, because cigars are different and while I may enjoy one more than the other. The difference is that I only will buy boxes of one I like.

JS: I’ve been getting samplers, getting this…getting that. (At the moment) I’m not getting boxes but I think eventually I’ll get to where you’ve been by getting certain cigars I like and going through the box.

TL: Sometimes you’d get ‘newbies’ on the forum and they’d post asking what they should get. Unfortunately you would always get someone who’d say, “You should get so or so because “so & so” is crap!” That’s something that annoys me. It’s alright to say to someone new to cigars that you might like so or so, but that doesn’t help them at all. The best advice is to definitely buy a sampler and try them all, see what you like. Try some Robustos; try some shorter or longer ones. Some of the nicer cigars I’ve smoked are the longer, thin ones…

JS: The panatelas (A long thin cigar that is typically 6.5-7 inches or 165 to 178mm by 28-38 ring gauge)…

TL: Yes, they’re fine, but they’re not the current trend. The trend is ‘gob smackers’ (like large lollypops)…

JS: Yes, cigars with ring gauges over 50/64ths of an inch. Experienced Cigar enthusiasts roll their eyes, because we were talking about it before, a cigar smokes well with an ash a certain length (about an inch) which allows it to cool. A ring gauge of 42 or under, as Chuck (Tampa1257) used to say, long and skinnies…

TL: Yes and the thing with those is you should smoke them a bit slower. If people get on them and smoke them like a 55 ring gauge cigar, they’re going to get too hot and they’re going to get a bit ‘tarry’.

JS: Yes, you’re right.

TL: Again, try different things, there’s nothing wrong with it. There’s no such thing as the best Cuban cigar. There might be one that you prefer the most. It’s something you learn.

JS: I must say that the cigar we are smoking today, the Montecristo Churchill Anejados, has had mixed reviews on our forum but we must have hit upon a good batch (LSM Feb 08). The other special Aged release, the Romeo y Julieta Piramides Anejados has been similarly mixed. Rob (Ayala) and Ken (Gargett) did a video review on the RyJ Piramides and while they were smoking it they were saying how it smoked wonderfully then it was ordinary and similarly it would be wonderful, and then ordinary, it was quite a unique assessment…I’m not making this up, I couldn’t believe it!

Now, with this Montecristo Churchill, because I’m more new to cigars I haven’t had experience with aged cigars, although through you I have, and what I’ve learnt through smoking aged (or rested) cigars is the harshness in the last third is not really there. The last third exemplifies the smoothness of a good cigar all the way.

TL: I think that’s one of the best ways to judge a cigar. If you’re smoking it down to the nub and burning it to your fingers…that’s a good cigar! (Both JS and TL laugh). If you’re throwing away nearly 40 percent of the cigar then you didn’t enjoy it.

There’ll be times when you won’t enjoy a cigar, for whatever reason, and I’ve always thought good company induces a good cigar. It’s the enjoyment (factor) isn’t it?

JS: It’s true isn’t it? There was recent topic on FoH about the (best) environment for smoking a cigar and there were about ten replies and about seven of them mentioned the subjective experience…they were in a certain place or they were with certain person, that’s what counted the most.

I’ve been thinking about this lately. There are guys on our forum are passionate about the water content in their cigars (9% to 12% is ideal), that’s one aspect of their cigar smoking. Then there’s Rob (El Presidente) who talks about aging, which MRN similarly talks about cigars fermenting and settling over time and it eventually smokes better (or optimally). Well that’s the second thing and the third thing is when people talk about cigars with wrappers, they might be a bit oily, so you let them settle and the oil dissipates out of the wrapper…so that’s another thing (or dimension) and the other dimension I look at is perhaps at our North American brothers (of the leaf) that talk about how much they look forward to winter finishing because they haven’t smoked a cigar in three months. My understanding is that a cigar is quite like a sponge. You might have settled it really beautifully (in your humidor), in a stabilised environment and aged it but if you get a really cold day you aren’t going to enjoy it as much, whereas there are other days where the humidity, the temperature is much better.

Those a four aspects of cigar smoking, but the fifth aspect, the subjective one, with what we are doing now, being social and chatting I enjoy too…very much!

TL: It’s like…well, what do you enjoy more? Drinking by yourself or drinking with some friends? It’s the same thing. Whenever I have a cigar I might sit out the front (of my house), Therese (my wife) always sits with me and we might have a wine, coffee or a liqueur and we chat.....it makes all the difference. She actually likes the smell of cigars. She had a draw on one once and found it dreadful (both JS and TL laugh), but the smell of a cigar, to a lot of people, is better than the taste of a cigar (Perhaps they should try a Cohiba 1966 LE – JS ‘wink, wink’).

[JohnS]

Alex Groom and the future of Cuban Cigar Website

JS: I’ve only got one more thing to discuss today about Cuban Cigar Website and that is in regards to Alex’s involvement. I guess when you started the site you couldn’t foretell where it is now could you? We’ve talked about the collection side of things, where you can put in your cigar inventory…

TL: It’s particularly good because it ties into the website. They were other cigar inventory systems around and apparently some of the good ones have dropped out because no-one has kept up with updating the database. With Alex’s, if you’ve got the cigar and you’ve looked it up then you’re signed in you’ve got options to click, rather than typing in details.

JS: Yes, I like how he’s done it because he has sixteen flavours profiled, I don’t know exactly what it is (It is actually sixteen – JS) and I smoked two or three cigars this week and I had to think… ”Is that leather?”” Is that Oak?”” Is that Earth?”” What type of Spice is it? ”What type of Pepper?” You put in two or three flavour profiles and there were six other different areas to rate. Elegance was one, balance another…it was easy, you just click through options. I’ll get in contact with Alex and I’ll get his opinion on it but I can see the website growing.

TL: He’s the right person to carry it on because he has the technical knowledge, he has an interest in cigars and he has the flair in knowing what other people want and again a lot of the things he’s developed have come from requests from people saying, “Can we have this?” and a week later Alex will post, “Okay, I got that up now, give it a try, let me know if it works!” He’s very reactive to everything and he’s always been the same with me in that whenever we’ve wanted to do something I’ll shoot him off an e-mail and he’d then suggest what we could do. He always came up with a solution. That’s why he’s the only person I ever thought could carry on the website.

JS: Thank you Trevor.

TL: Thank you.

[Colt45]

[Strada]

Great read gents and again thank you Trevor and Alex!

[cottierm]

Thank you John for putting this together and thank you Trevor for all these stories.

[LordAnubis]

Wholy jeebus batman! I have read about three lines but i will certainly read it all at a later time !!

Great stuff folks !!

[Shikar]

Excellent. Thanks for your effort

Regards

[saintsmokealot]

Fantastic read. I look forward to sessions 2 and 3!

[RockemSockem]

[Tino]

Great work!

[Hunter1974]

I can say I am a proud member of The Cuban cigar website. Thanks Trevor and Alex for all your hard work and thank you John for doing this well organized interview that has showed many of us the roots,the men who made this dream come true and the humble beginings of this wonderful website that has helped educate alot of us !

[Jay Hemingway]

This was a wonderful idea and Kudos to all involved.

I am very fortunate to have a Gallery on CCW that Trevor set up for me many years back. I had started to dabble in "Cigar Photography" and started to receive amazing feedback almost right away. So what turned into a little hobby of mine became something I started to have passion for. I had friends who were suggesting I create my own website with my pictures and sell larger prints or posters. I did like the idea of creating my own site for my pictures, however I was never really into the idea of "selling" or

"charging" for these pic's. I only wanted to do this for fun. I always noticed on many of the Cigar Forums I was a member of, the threads that had the most action were the "Cigar Porn" threads, or the "Show us your latest Purchase" threads. So I , like most other Habanophiles , just love taking pic's of cigars and looking at pic's of cigars. If you start charging $$, you then have to create "Perfection" always...An extra headache.

There was always the option of creating the site and earning $$ from ad space, so I would not technically be "selling" the prints, just making $ from people visiting the site. I was not a fan of that either.

I was very fond of what Trevor was doing with CCW. You can tell within a matter of minutes that this site was done from PASSION. There were no ads, nothing for sale, just the best and most accurate information on Cuban Cigars online. Period.

I reached out to Trevor one day and showed him some of these pic's I was taking and asked him if he could find any use for them. He not only found use for them, he created an entire page or "Gallery" for my pictures and named it "Jay's Gallery". It has been there ever since and I could not be prouder.

This thread is about Trevor and CCW, so my point is to say thank you. Trevor is a Great man who had a passion and an idea and hit a home run all the way! He is always extremely loyal and I could never thank him enough for the platform he has given me. With Alex at the wheel, I am sure CCW will continue to be the best site out there for CUban Cigar information that we all will use for years to come!

I can say everyday I am honored to know Trevor and I am honored to have my gallery on CubanCigarWebsite.com. Thank you for everything BROTHER!

[topdiesel]

So cool to learn about this history and the minds behind it.

Thanks

[cardinalfan85]

Good stuff! That website is a wealth of knowledge.

[Fumadoro]

Awesome post! I'll be looking forward to the next 2 interviews!

[Lasabar]

Fantastic post!

Excellent read!

[Dimmers]

Great interview John!

Trevor you are a deadset legend!

[khamy]

John that was a great article, thanks for the time you have put in to get this together, it highlights very well, the depth and passion that Trevor has invested in CCW.

[soutso]

Fantastic. Well done gents, a terrific read.

[golfdude888]

I am full of cigar knowledge that I never knew about - Thankyou John and Trevor sharing and giving up your time to produce this.