UK Tobacco Plain Packaging passed.

[El Presidente]

I have been in the warehouse today so have missed the detail (and your PM's e-mails...but I will get to those in the AM).

I heard that Plain Packaging has was passed in the UK Parliament.

Were there any exclusions made to cigars in any way?

Catch up with you tomorrow

[spirit]

There's actually been very little in the regular media about this. Minimal detail coming out for mass digestion. The most info I have seen was on one of the UK Cigar Forums from a H&F employee which essentially said that as long as UK B&M's did not display cigars/tobacco in their shop window displays that they would be OK. But that element is more to do with the display of tobacco products for sale.

I've seen cigarette packet designs but nothing at all to do with premium cigars.

[Tino]

It's been voted through parliament but still has to be approved by the house of lords. Only a matter of time. Specialist tobacco (defined as pipes and cigars) were excluded from the proposals but there was provision in there that 'it could be included in the future.' Difficult to get a clear picture at the moment.

[JoeyGunz]

They did state "cigarettes" and not tobacco. we'll see.

[LordAnubis]

Apparently certain large tobacco companies are calling around asking people "what's the definition of a cigar" ... f#$%ing big tobacco... they will ruin it for the rest of us those greedy bastards.

[CaptainQuintero]

Yes we vote for gutless simpletons with no sense of the real world too.

[Pixa]

Pretty pointless as the EU TPD which comes into force may 2016 mandates a minimum 65% warning labels anyway. So not much room left anyway

[CatchNRelease]

Apparently certain large tobacco companies are calling around asking people "what's the definition of a cigar" ... f#$%ing big tobacco... they will ruin it for the rest of us those greedy bastards.

they may change their "cigarettes" to suddenly be "ultra mini petite coronas" and not have to abide by any of it.

[Vortigan]

Oh Hallelujah!! Thank God! It's all for the good of the kids,you know....somebody has to save them(!!!)

[MostlyHarmless]

Pretty pointless as the EU TPD which comes into force may 2016 mandates a minimum 65% warning labels anyway. So not much room left anyway

i think, that cigars are excluded es well.

[Pixa]

i think, that cigars are excluded es well.

It is allowed for the eu countries to exempt them and pipe tobacco but does not mean they will, still to be seen what each country will do when they enact it

[Guinness70]

EU bike shed effect... completely. So they can pat themselves on the back in congratulations for fat pay well earned.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_law_of_triviality

•●》it is better to be full of whisky then to be full of shit《●•

[Ryan]

I'm not sure about the UK. I heard rumours that the legislation has been delayed due to an injunction brought by a cigarette manufacturer stating discrimination, as cigars and pipe tobacco had been exempted in that version of the UK legislation.

However, plain packaging has been enacted in this country (Ireland), and due to come into effect in May 2017.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/plain-packaging-for-cigarettes-signed-into-law-in-ireland-1.2134138

There are no exemptions here for cigars or pipe tobacco. The law, as it stands, if it goes into effect, will mean the end of cigar sales in this country.

There will be lawsuits from tobacco producers but we'll have to see how that goes.

There is a possibility that specialist tobacconists might get an exemption, there are only 4 shops in the country with that designation, the 3 cigar shops in Dublin being 3 of them. They can't even sell cigarettes currently, in order to be exempted from the existing display ban.

Without an exemption, I can't see any cigar shop in this country remaining open after 2017.

[wabashcr]

The law, as it stands, if it goes into effect, will mean the end of cigar sales in this country.

Just curious why this is the case? I understand it will make things difficult, but can cigars not still be sold in plain packaging? Is it the cost of repackaging that would be prohibitive? I'm admittedly ignorant of all of the ramifications of this type of legislation.

[Ryan]

Just curious why this is the case? I understand it will make things difficult, but can cigars not still be sold in plain packaging? Is it the cost of repackaging that would be prohibitive? I'm admittedly ignorant of all of the ramifications of this type of legislation.

All cigars entering Ireland for retail, officially, come from Hunters and Frankau, the UK distributer for UK, Ireland, channel Islands, Isle of Man and Gibraltar.

Ireland is a small market, we make up about 6%-8% of Hunter's market.

Neither Habanos nor Hunters is going to go to the expense of repackaging cigars just for Ireland. It's not worth it for them.

The law, as it stands, in Ireland is that all cigars have to be removed from their original packaging and repackaged into plain packs with health warnings. Stickers over the original won't do.

The local distributer here, who receives the cigars from Hunters in the UK, would have to produce about 200 different sized packages for the different SKUs (package sizes that Cuban cigars and everything else come in) for every cigar.

Plus hire two people to repackage them all and remove all the cigar bands, also banned under the current law due to come into effect.

Removing bands alone could damage up to half the cigars in a box. Placing new bands over the old will also not be allowed.

Hiring two people could very well drive the margin down to where premium cigars are no longer profitable.

Especially since sales will be down due to that fact that the shops cannot let anyone know that they sell cuban cigars.

A large proportion of cigar sales here are to tourists. Will a tourist want to buy a plain packaged cigar here or wait until he goes to another country/online to buy the cigars with bands as originally packaged.

The last hope here really is to get an exemption for specialist tobacconists, as happened before when the display ban came in.

[LordAnubis]

Geebus... good luck Irish folks.. if you need a lung care package, it can be arranged

[wabashcr]

Thanks for the explanation. Definitely makes sense. What an awful scenario. Hope they stick with the exemptions you mentioned. Barring that, maybe an EU-wide move to similar restrictions would be a blessing for Ireland then? At least then Ireland wouldn't bear the full cost of the plain packaging.

[Strada]

All cigars entering Ireland for retail, officially, come from Hunters and Frankau, the UK distributer for UK, Ireland, channel Islands, Isle of Man and Gibraltar.

Ireland is a small market, we make up about 6%-8% of Hunter's market.

Neither Habanos nor Hunters is going to go to the expense of repackaging cigars just for Ireland. It's not worth it for them.

The law, as it stands, in Ireland is that all cigars have to be removed from their original packaging and repackaged into plain packs with health warnings. Stickers over the original won't do.

The local distributer here, who receives the cigars from Hunters in the UK, would have to produce about 200 different sized packages for the the different SKUs (package sizes that Cuban cigars and everything else come in) for every cigar.

Plus hire two people to repackage them all and remove all the cigar bands, also banned under the current under due to come into effect.

Removing bands alone could damage up to half the cigars in a box. Placing new bands over the old will also not be allowed.

Hiring two people could very well drive the margin down to where premium cigars are no longer profitable.

Especially since sales will be down due to that fact that the shops cannot let anyone know that they sell cuban cigars.

A large proportion of cigar sales here are to tourists. Will a tourist want to but a plain packaged cigar here or wait til he goes to another country/online to buy the cigars with bands and as originally packaged.

The last hope here really is to get an exemption for specialist tobacconists, as happened before when the display ban came in.

Thanks for the in-depth description, that's a pain. Good luck all with this

[OZCUBAN]

It's been voted through parliament but still has to be approved by the house of lords. Only a matter of time. Specialist tobacco (defined as pipes and cigars) were excluded from the proposals but there was provision in there that 'it could be included in the future.' Difficult to get a clear picture at the moment.

Well your still doing better than us to smoke tobacco in this country now is akin to being a pedophile

[Pixa]

Well your still doing better than us to smoke tobacco in this country now is akin to being a pedophile

Oh jimmy saville you have a lot to answer for

[Maplepie]

.

Andy, what's to be of JJ Fox and their dungeon of treasures?

Btw. Very well put breakdown of the worst case scenario in Ireland. Shame it's gotten to this point, though.

Sent from the Enigma via Tapatalk for BlackBerry.

[MostlyHarmless]

All cigars entering Ireland for retail,...

The last hope here really is to get an exemption for specialist tobacconists, as happened before when the display ban came in.

Thank you for this insightful post. Those are some points, that i haven't thought of, while thinking about plain packaging.

Besides that, i find it very hard to get informations about this topic. From time to time you can read some sensational headlines, but it's almost impossible to then get into details about what is really going to happen.

[Ryan]

Andy, what's to be of JJ Fox and their dungeon of treasures?

Btw. Very well put breakdown of the worst case scenario in Ireland. Shame it's gotten to this point, though.

Sent from the Enigma via Tapatalk for BlackBerry.

As far as I know there would be no exemption for cigars produced before the ban, it is simply not something on the radar of the legislators, I suppose understandably. Lawmakers only really care about cigarettes, cigars are collateral damage. Lawmakers here don't want an exemption for cigars as cigarette makers will see that as a loophole and do whatever they can to produce a cigarette that falls under the legal definition of 'cigar'. As they have done in other markets (Polish 'party cigars') and would try to do here. So to answer your question, those old cigars in Fox would be illegal to sell in retail in Ireland as they are and as the law stands.

[Maplepie]

At least those won't be affected in any way shape or form! Maybe the location, but that's not too bad, I guess.

Lawmakers here don't want an exemption for cigars as cigarette makers will see that as a loophole and do whatever they can to produce a cigarette that falls under the legal definition of 'cigar'. As they have done in other markets (Polish 'party cigars')

That's just silly. Perhaps putting something like "handmade cigar" would be too logical? (much like they do for English lounges, I believe? that's how I think they get around the smoking lounges there)

[LordAnubis]

At least those won't be affected in any way shape or form! Maybe the location, but that's not too bad, I guess.

That's just silly. Perhaps putting something like "handmade cigar" would be too logical? (much like they do for English lounges, I believe? that's how I think they get around the smoking lounges there)

In the UK they have a "sampling" law. You can smoke inside a shop as long as you purchase the cigar from there. Any enclosed lounge is the same, if it's indoors you can smoke what you buy from them. If the "terrace" is outdoors you can bring your own.