Canada Under Terrorist Attack- Breaking

[cigardude]

I believe we need to keep up the bombing of terrorist training camps over seas going, lock our borders to anyone on the "list", give Canadian civilian's their right to bear arms back and don't back down. Terrorists have been around for centuries and will continue to be around (as the saying goes....a haters gotta hate). We need to stick together and stand strong! This isn't just a Canadian thing, it s a good vs bad world wide fight.

[mash]

Post 9/11, AFAIK the increase in "security" in the USA has not stopped 1 single terrorist attack or brought to light any credible threats or foiled plots. But, citizens lost a whole lot of rights and now have drones flying in their airspace, country wide to look forward to.

It's too early in the game for kneejerk reactions. I will be mad and disappointed if this results in the loss of rights or freedoms for Canadians.

There are too many unanswered questions right now to make rash decisions. I for one can't comprehend how people can get "radicalized" over the internet so easily. So far the two perps fit that model. I fear that current thinking on how to handle terrorism achieves nothing.

I'm not a fan of Harper. I always feel there's a hidden agenda under his belt. And events like this make it easier for him to implement.

Couldn't agree more.

[tdlfoto]

here's a very decent read/analysis of "radicalization". worth the time IMHO

http://dougsaunders.net/2013/04/muslim-immigrants-terrorists-jihad-terrorism/

[dowjr1]

Well I disagree that that many are "becoming" radicalized. Has anyone seen the Pew study from a few years ago about commonly held opinions of Muslims in various countries? Over 38,000 interviews in over 80 languages in 39 countries...took years to complete. They asked questions about a variety of topics... honor killings,stoning for adultery, is Osama Bin Laden a good guy or bad, etc. and if these things were ever acceptable or okay. It was NOT tiny minorities in the various countries that was in favor of these things. It was big percentages. For example, 29% of Egyptians, 15% of Jordanians, and 26%'of Bangladeshis think suicide bombing is sometimes or often justified. That should tell, at least the people who want to listen, something.

Here it is:http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

[ChanceSchmerr]

I'm not a fan of Harper. I always feel there's a hidden agenda under his belt. And events like this make it easier for him to implement.

You and i are of the same mind, Frank. My worry is that he somehow spins this to win another election next year

[Puros Y Vino]

You and i are of the same mind, Frank. My worry is that he somehow spins this to win another election next year

Damn straight Chris! When I think of him, this picture comes to mind.

I don't hate him but I can't find it in me to like him either.

[LordAnubis]

I was going to say something earlier, but i didn't as it was going into the political side of things, but since this topic has now drifted i will say it.

We are all humans, all 7 billion of us. When someone sees a person from another country in their country, on their land, in their house, with a gun or bomb and they kill your friends, your family your neighbours, you will react, you will not think, you will jump to conculsions, you will make decisions that in hindsight you will regret. This is true of all humanity, and this is what EVERYONE is going through. The Iraqis feel this way about the americans, the americans feel this way about muslims, the aussie feel this way about indonesians and so on and so on.

It says something terrible of the first world "democracy" when a dicatorial country like Cuba is doing more to help humanity with the assistance of highly trained medical personnel to combat Ebola, than all the western countries combined. And we hold ourselves in high esteem? Our people cry foul and cry about how unfair it is when we give millions in aid to poorer countries, but when we spend trillions on war, it's no worries. And we're the developed ones?!?!?!

At the end of the day what bothers me the most is sensationalist media. I live in Australia and i hear people all the time talk about how terrible muslims are, and the latest craze ofcourse being how bad Russia is. Humans are lazy, they don't want to go and read alternative news sites, or read the other side of the story. We play right into the hands of sensationalist media that is feeding us information to achieve a common end goal. No one wants to read how a certain government blocks Iran from purchasing parts to service their Boeing aircraft, purely to strong arm them due to their revolution and nuclear program. And then you wonder why they don't like us? You are holding them at ransom and holding all of their money, choking them, and then you wonder why they are upset? Why they dont like us? This is where i'm looking forward to this BRICS bank, it's going to be awesome! Anyway back on topic.

What it all ends up coming down to is this. A white guy who is "troubled" goes and shoots 22 people in a cinema and it's a tragedy. Nothing happens as a result of it, people died, what a shame you move on. Then a white guy who is troubled, has a broken family history, and was already on the radar of inteligence agencies goes and kills one soldier and it's a Jihadist Terrorist Attack!! You never hear of "Atheist man goes on shooting rampage in shopping centre". But the second a muslim is involved it's terrorism. There 1.8 billion of us in the world. Some of us are going to have mental issues, some of us are going to be deranged, but most of us a good people. Just like any other group of people, even like Habanos SA if you will.

At the end of the day it's not muslims killing people or christians killing people... its people. People killing people.

What needs to happen is a show of spirit, human spirit. You fix a roof of a person home and i guarantee you they wont blow you up. But if you shoot someone neighbour, even if they were a terrible human being, all you are doing is showing other people that you kill people... and that brings us to where we are today.

[Hubba]

Moving cartoon by Bruce MacKinnon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[headstand]

Moving cartoon by Bruce MacKinnon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Moving yes. Thanks for sharing.

[Habanos2000]

We are all humans, all 7 billion of us. When someone sees a person from another country in their country, on their land, in their house, with a gun or bomb and they kill your friends, your family your neighbours, you will react, you will not think, you will jump to conculsions, you will make decisions that in hindsight you will regret. This is true of all humanity, and this is what EVERYONE is going through. The Iraqis feel this way about the americans, the americans feel this way about muslims, the aussie feel this way about indonesians and so on and so on.

It says something terrible of the first world "democracy" when a dicatorial country like Cuba is doing more to help humanity with the assistance of highly trained medical personnel to combat Ebola, than all the western countries combined. And we hold ourselves in high esteem? Our people cry foul and cry about how unfair it is when we give millions in aid to poorer countries, but when we spend trillions on war, it's no worries. And we're the developed ones?!?!?!

At the end of the day what bothers me the most is sensationalist media. I live in Australia and i hear people all the time talk about how terrible muslims are, and the latest craze ofcourse being how bad Russia is. Humans are lazy, they don't want to go and read alternative news sites, or read the other side of the story. We play right into the hands of sensationalist media that is feeding us information to achieve a common end goal. No one wants to read how a certain government blocks Iran from purchasing parts to service their Boeing aircraft, purely to strong arm them due to their revolution and nuclear program. And then you wonder why they don't like us? You are holding them at ransom and holding all of their money, choking them, and then you wonder why they are upset? Why they dont like us? This is where i'm looking forward to this BRICS bank, it's going to be awesome! Anyway back on topic.

What it all ends up coming down to is this. A white guy who is "troubled" goes and shoots 22 people in a cinema and it's a tragedy. Nothing happens as a result of it, people died, what a shame you move on. Then a white guy who is troubled, has a broken family history, and was already on the radar of inteligence agencies goes and kills one soldier and it's a Jihadist Terrorist Attack!! You never hear of "Atheist man goes on shooting rampage in shopping centre". But the second a muslim is involved it's terrorism. There 1.8 billion of us in the world. Some of us are going to have mental issues, some of us are going to be deranged, but most of us a good people. Just like any other group of people, even like Habanos SA if you will.

At the end of the day it's not muslims killing people or christians killing people... its people. People killing people.

What needs to happen is a show of spirit, human spirit. You fix a roof of a person home and i guarantee you they wont blow you up. But if you shoot someone neighbour, even if they were a terrible human being, all you are doing is showing other people that you kill people... and that brings us to where we are today.

Many interesting points. From my point of view I don't believe Americans hate Muslims, but probably fair to say they hate radicalized Muslims. I'd have to say for good reason as they have directly targeted US citizens often.

As far as Iran being denied airplane parts, I'm not familiar with those details but would have to say their government is not friendly with the U.S., and quite a threat to U.S.interests in the region, so no airplane parts for you!

Comparing terrorist attacks to those of mentally sick people isn't a fair comparison in my opinion. The fact is that ISIS, Al Qaida, and plenty others are carrying out their attacks and recruiting others in the name of Islam. They are sick, twisted perverts, but "Islam" is the commonality between them. I understand people are becoming radicalized at their local mosques in the states, Europe, and elsewhere. Can't the real Muslims, for lack of a better term, speak out louder and maybe turn some of these bad guys in?

I don't judge books by their cover and don't think all Muslims are threats, but I sure wish there was more involvement from the Muslim community in outing the radical elements that are hijacking their religion.

[Ken Gargett]

I sure wish there was more involvement from the Muslim community in outing the radical elements that are hijacking their religion.

will try and post in more depth re some of these recent posts as they are really interesting but i do think that the very last point is key - have some deadlines i need to deal with first.

fair or not, and i am speaking from an aussie perspective obviously but it seems widespread, i think a great many people believe that because they do not often see muslims criticising these actions, it means all muslims support them. obviously not true but perception is everything. i don't know why we don't see more criticism (it may be as simple as the garbage media don't report it because they'll sell more papers/time etc if they can create a situation of antagonism rather than deal with the truth) but it would go a long way preventing the 'hate all muslims' attitude we so often see.

i'm sure it is not easy but i'd love to hear from any of our muslim brothers/sisters on this.

will try and post more tonight or tomorrow.

[MrGTO]

What bothers me is I don't see any "good"muslims coming out and speaking out against this radicalization/terrorism going on all over the world......

Probably because they will get their head chopped or shot off just like us infidels.

Just ask Malala Yousafzai.....

Or the young woman accused of adultery and stoned to death by her own father and ISIS terrorists..

[dvickery]

Moving cartoon by Bruce MacKinnon.

thanks @hubba ... moving enough i posted it on ccf .

sniff

derrek

[Ken Gargett]

What bothers me is I don't see any "good"muslims coming out and speaking out against this radicalization/terrorism going on all over the world......

Probably because they will get their head chopped or shot off just like us infidels.

Just ask Malala Yousafzai.....

Or the young woman accused of adultery and stoned to death by her own father and ISIS terrorists..

malala is the exact opposite, surely? she is speaking out, every chance she gets. a truly amazing kid. and being shot has not stopped her. i suspect that what she has done for islam is more than we could ever calculate.

but surely if no one speaks out or opposes this "radicalization/terrorism going on all over the world", then it has won?

[ebhead]

my question would be that why do "good" muslims have to speak out against it? Why is the responsiblity of the few foisted on people who have nothing to do with these actions?

Muslims are not their brothers keepers...

e

[MrGTO]

malala is the exact opposite, surely? she is speaking out, every chance she gets. a truly amazing kid. and being shot has not stopped her. i suspect that what she has done for islam is more than we could ever calculate.

but surely if no one speaks out or opposes this "radicalization/terrorism going on all over the world", then it has won?

No, but you see the problem is if you or I speak out about our governments or specific belief/beliefs we dont get shot, beheaded, or stoned for doing so. We all talk about be tolerant and civilized to one and all no matter what WE believe. I believe this is 2014 and it is not ok for this to go on anymore.

[Paul3]

Muslims are not their brothers keepers...

e

And maybe that is part of the problem. A measure of responsibility, or perhaps expectation, has been dumped in the laps of non-radicalized Muslims to become their brothers keepers. Right or wrong, fair or unfair I think it's a reality. I, and I'd guess that most if not all members on the board, did not go out and impose any repressive rules, behaviors or sanctions on Muslims, but we now have all suffered at the anger and violence stemming from radicalized Muslims actions. Again fair or unfair it has become a reality.

None of this, unfortunately, moves us any closer to a solution.

[MrGTO]

my question would be that why do "good" muslims have to speak out against it? Why is the responsiblity of the few foisted on people who have nothing to do with these actions?

Muslims are not their brothers keepers...

e

Who are their keepers?

[Habanos2000]

my question would be that why do "good" muslims have to speak out against it? Why is the responsiblity of the few foisted on people who have nothing to do with these actions?

Muslims are not their brothers keepers...

e

If I was aware of a "brother" that was plotting a shooting, bombing, or beheading you bet your ass I'd notify the police. It's my duty as a human being.

[Ken Gargett]

No, but you see the problem is if you or I speak out about our governments or specific belief/beliefs we dont get shot, beheaded, or stoned for doing so. We all talk about be tolerant and civilized to one and all no matter what WE believe. I believe this is 2014 and it is not ok for this to go on anymore.

sorry, not trying to be obtuse but i'm not sure i follow. 'no', you don't agree re malala or 'no', you don't agree that if people keep silent then the terrorists have won?

something about edmund burke and "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." springs to mind.

again, not trying to be difficult but i don't really follow what you think is "not ok for this to go on anymore". if you mean the killings, beheadings etc, then i could not agree more and i suspect the vast majority of us feel the same. but sadly they are rather unlikely to stop if no one does or says anything.

[Ken Gargett]

without wishing to inflame or sidetrack, sadly, the issue of religion has always been divisive and dangerous, ever since it was invented. my thoughts on religion are hardly a secret on this forum (i think it has been greatest long term disaster humanity has ever concocted). that said, i have absolutely no problem with anyone believing in whatever religion they choose as long as they don't bother me or cause harm in any way to others (something it does seem is core to pretty much every religion i can think of, yet so often ignored).

rob often has a crack at me for being anti-catholic. i am no more anti-catholic than i am anti any religion. but what incenses me about "catholicism" is the way that the church has protected and enabled child molesters. i think that makes them some of the most evil, vile garbage on the planet. but i do not believe that in any way, it is what genuine catholicism intends.

my limited experience of muslims largely comes through travelling through the middle east and iran/pakistan etc, years ago. the vast majority were incredibly decent, hospitable people. i loved my time there. i always think that if those who detest all muslims could experience something similar, they would very quickly change their views.

unfortunately, so many people now hate anything to do with islam, because of the actions of a small minority. i would get several emails a day with muslim jokes or anti-islamic messages (yes, those people go directly to junk). mostly from 'mates', who are otherwise decent people. i've tried engaging them in debate to suggest they may be over the top but most re not interested. change is going to have to come from actions by the islamic community, like it or not. one good mate, one of the kindest and most generous blokes i've ever known, so blindly hates islam - because of the actions of the tiny minority - that he recently said to me that there was a young lad in his office who was a muslim. he really likes the guy. says he is a lovely bloke and does his job well. but he will get rid of him when he can because he can't see past the bloke being a muslim. it fires him up so much. he knows it is wrong but he can't help himself. nothing i say will change that. the only thing i can think of is that when he sees muslims acting and speaking out, he might understand. so if they keep quiet, fair or not, things will only get worse. he is hardly alone in his views.

but it has long been this way - with other races and religions. i remember as a young kid at school, the japanese were seen as evil (we are talking the 60s) by so many. simply a hangover from the war (strangely, the germans were seen more as a nation that had temporarily lost its way due to hitler - always suspected this was simply because they were 'european' and the japanese were 'asian', sad as that is. yet by the time i was in senior school, this had greatly changed. i even attended japanese language classes (can still count to ten). the japanese were welcomed as investors and visitors. things can change.

i remember my grandmother, when i was about ten, coming into a room where i was watching a footy game. valleys v brothers. i was a valleys fan. she asked who was playing. i told her. she immediately left the room. she could not bear to stay in the same room as a tv showing a catholic footy team. made no difference that her husband, my grandfather, who had played against the poms in his youth and would have played with and against any number of catholics. i didn't even know what a catholic was back then (still, i hated brothers but only because they were strong opposition for valleys). i found out the reason some years later. it dated back to the first world war. my grandfather spent the best part of four years in the trenches and she never forgave the irish for the collaboration with the germans (yes, understand not so simple). she, and i gather quite a lot of australians, hated the catholics in the same manner we see many people hating muslims.

i know all of this is very simplistic but i do think that while appropriate military action is necessary, in the long haul, the only way to defeat the radicals, if it is even possible, and reverse the prejudices against the muslim community as a whole, is for them to speak up. and to act.

as clint says, "silence from the good is at their own peril ".

[Fosgate]

What scares me is some of this

And the topics this woman brings up.

[Ken Gargett]

What scares me is some of this

And the topics this woman brings up.

25% of 1.8 billion muslims are radicals and terrorists? i don't believe that for a second.

the japanese raged across asia with most of their victims killed by shovels? spare me.

but idiots like this sprout rubbish and dills go home believing it.

it really doesn't help.

[Fosgate]

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/010556.html

Bill Mauer is also a liberal left political commentator who has normally defended Islam and mocked conservatives views and concerns. You can see if he is concerned. Even if it is 1% of a billion that's 10,000,000 radicals that support the collapse of western civilization and the destruction of it's people.

[LordAnubis]

Many interesting points. From my point of view I don't believe Americans hate Muslims, but probably fair to say they hate radicalized Muslims. I'd have to say for good reason as they have directly targeted US citizens often. Same works for who is killing innocent civilians in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria and so on... Do you think in the news in Iraq they praise the "allies". No. They call the americans terrorists, they call Nato terrorists.

As far as Iran being denied airplane parts, I'm not familiar with those details but would have to say their government is not friendly with the U.S., and quite a threat to U.S.interests in the region, so no airplane parts for you! And that is exactly the attitude that doesn't help anything. Put the shoes on your foot. If you couldn't get oil from the arabs, and you couldn't fly a plane to go somewhere or drive your car to a hospital for treatment, would you cop it on the chin and say how nice it is of the arabs to hold back oil form you? Yet you are perfectly happy to let them fly around in potentially unsafe planes.

Comparing terrorist attacks to those of mentally sick people isn't a fair comparison in my opinion. The fact is that ISIS, Al Qaida, and plenty others are carrying out their attacks and recruiting others in the name of Islam. They are sick, twisted perverts, but "Islam" is the commonality between them. I understand people are becoming radicalized at their local mosques in the states, Europe, and elsewhere. Can't the real Muslims, for lack of a better term, speak out louder and maybe turn some of these bad guys in? That was not my point. I was saying how can two people with mental problems be reported differently? You could report "Mentally disturbed man shoots soldier at war memorial" and then once oyu have gathered legitimate evidence show that he was influenced by fundamentalists. But no, the sensationalist media jumps to conclusions, then doesn't bother to go back and correct facts. How's the WMD search in Iraq going by the way?

I don't judge books by their cover and don't think all Muslims are threats, but I sure wish there was more involvement from the Muslim community in outing the radical elements that are hijacking their religion. It's hard to get involvement when the only thing the news is willing to show is the radical side, and the side that best suits you. Don't see any news reports in western media about civilian deaths in Iraq, or destruction of homes there or robbery of their national treasures. There is no objective reporting by the news. I'vehad it myself. Spoke to a newspaper about a fundamentalism for 10 minutes, and then the only thing the news paper reported was 10 words out of sequence in which I said it that potrayed something totally different to what was said. It's like the age old "why doesn't that homeless man just get a job" because it's so easy, because everyone is just willing to hire a homeless man.