Scottish Independence - How would you vote?

[CaptainQuintero]

If the new Scottish government decides to increase tax on whisky then it would. I don't see why they wouldn't if they are trying to raise more cash.

[...]

Land ownership and patriotism have always struck many questions and some confusion in my mind.

I remember listening to an interview with an Austalian aboriginal elder who was explaining his culture and how the aboriginals relate to the land.

So interesting and so different than what we are used to hearing, definitely something to think about and consider. Would make states, governments and laws as we know them kind of moot...

[Maplepie]

If the new Scottish government decides to increase tax on whisky then it would. I don't see why they wouldn't if they are trying to raise more cash.

I would love a nationalism of the distilleries.

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

[Rye]

I would love a nationalism of the distilleries.

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

You mean like HSA and Cuban cigars?

Wouldn't be so interested in one big vat of swill, packaged in shiny Lalique bottles, all claiming to be "exclusive"

[Maplepie]

You mean like HSA and Cuban cigars?

Wouldn't be so interested in one big vat of swill, packaged in shiny Lalique bottles, all claiming to be "exclusive"

My mistake. I misused the word 'nationalise'

The Scotch distilleries are all under a giant Indian conglomerate right now.

It'd just be nice to see Scottish distilleries working for the average Scotsman. Perhaps no regulation from any government besides health regulations (no methanol or ethers in my scotch!)

that way, they won't need to pay up to their masters. And Dalmore won't churn out any Constellation series

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

[CanuckSARTech]

I can't help but see similarities with Quebec wanting to be separate from Canada.

Will Scotland still want to use British infrastructure and currency? What about health systems and military? We have heard a little on the situation here, but not enough of both sides for me to pick either way.

It does piss me off when a state wants a pampered version of "sovereignty". If you really want to makes go at it, fine, piss off then, you get nothing that isn't within your borders already.

BIG difference, IMO.

Scotland was it's own country, conquered, and then co-erced into a "union".

Quebec is and was a province, always was a part of Canada (first nations treaty issues aside) when Canada was first a colony, and then made into a country.

Scotland is like when a giant company moves in next door to you, starts building on your property and running the roost, and tells you how it's gonna be (but also pays for things like snow removal and cutting the grass and such). Easy to see how it's an agreement that could go either way, stay or leave.

Quebec (aside from some FOH members here, whom are like brothers), and usually what appears to exclude the majority of Montrealers in polls (it only seems to be the rural Quebeckers) is sometimes appearing to be like the bratty 29-year-old that just won't move out of mommy and daddy's basement. He wants to move out, but still demands to have an allowance, use the family credit card, stay on the family health care plan, and be given a new or nearly-new car on the way out the door (even though Mom and Dad already fully paid for his two relatively-useless-unless-becoming-a-teacher-but-good-luck-with-that-anymore university bachelor degrees in sociology and philosophy). And if mom and dad were to even consider turning his room into a home office or games room, he would raise a hissy fit and say mom and dad were not respecting his individuality, and that the whole world is against him, and he needs that safety net to come home to 'cause everyone might pick on him.

Sorry. LOL. I do actually love my Quebec brethren (work with a lot of them). Just taking the piss!

[....Simon's gonna send me hate mail now.... ]

[CaptainQuintero]

My mistake. I misused the word 'nationalise'

The Scotch distilleries are all under a giant Indian conglomerate right now.

It'd just be nice to see Scottish distilleries working for the average Scotsman. Perhaps no regulation from any government besides health regulations (no methanol or ethers in my scotch!)

that way, they won't need to pay up to their masters. And Dalmore won't churn out any Constellation series

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

What? Not even half the distilleries in Scotland are foreign owned, and out of those foreign owned ones, Indian owners are not even the largest. French, Brazilian and others run the most.

With the US, then French then Spanish being the biggest markets for Scotch if the distilleries started making their business strategies based on what the average Scot drinks they would quickly go out of business.

[perkinke]

One of the things that I find troubling, and it may be only because I have only a shallow knowledge of the topic, is that there has been little or no discussion or plan of how to transition to an independent country. Certainly they already have many systems in place, but how to separate the finances, the currency to be used, what that currency would be pegged to, would it be admitted to the EU, will it honor treaties entered into while part of the UK, will other countries be willing to honor similar agreements for trade and travel, will new elections be held wholesale after independence. Setting up a new city government is horrendously complex, re-establishing a country.... (but on the upside, it would make Scotland having it's own national football team a little more rational to those of us outside the Isles).

It's a problem that folks here in the US who want to form their own states never seem to grasp, the extreme complexity and cost of setting up a new government, and that is WITHIN a national boundary and system. The policy wonk in me wants the vote to be "yes" so I can watch how a country is re-established in peaceful conditions. But realistically, I think overall it would be bad for the average Scot.

[Pixa]

My mistake. I misused the word 'nationalise'

The Scotch distilleries are all under a giant Indian conglomerate right now.

It'd just be nice to see Scottish distilleries working for the average Scotsman. Perhaps no regulation from any government besides health regulations (no methanol or ethers in my scotch!)

that way, they won't need to pay up to their masters. And Dalmore won't churn out any Constellation series

Sent by the Enigma on BlackBerry.

Stop drinking the meths in your chemistry class there is plenty of uk owned and ran distilleries but you want find there produce in the supermarket

One of the things that I find troubling, and it may be only because I have only a shallow knowledge of the topic, is that there has been little or no discussion or plan of how to transition to an independent country. Certainly they already have many systems in place, but how to separate the finances, the currency to be used, what that currency would be pegged to, would it be admitted to the EU, will it honor treaties entered into while part of the UK, will other countries be willing to honor similar agreements for trade and travel, will new elections be held wholesale after independence. Setting up a new city government is horrendously complex, re-establishing a country.... (but on the upside, it would make Scotland having it's own national football team a little more rational to those of us outside the Isles).

It's a problem that folks here in the US who want to form their own states never seem to grasp, the extreme complexity and cost of setting up a new government, and that is WITHIN a national boundary and system. The policy wonk in me wants the vote to be "yes" so I can watch how a country is re-established in peaceful conditions. But realistically, I think overall it would be bad for the average Scot.

There ins and outs of who gets what will discussed after the vote and the uk government refuse to discuss it before it's a yes. There is all ready a Scottish parliament and Scottish tax office health care and a lot of other services are separate as well.

Also there will be a new election in Scotland if there's a split

As it stands just now even the whole basis of the legal system is different with different laws.

[Smallclub]

The Scotch distilleries are all under a giant Indian conglomerate right now.

Are you serious? The companies that own the largest numbers of scottish distilleries are the english Diageo (±25) and the french Pernod-Ricard (±15)…

[headstand]

You mean like HSA and Cuban cigars?

Wouldn't be so interested in one big vat of swill, packaged in shiny Lalique bottles, all claiming to be "exclusive"

But Rye, think of the upside: LEs and REs galore.

[headstand]

Quebec is and was a province, always was a part of Canada (first nations treaty issues aside) when Canada was first a colony

Actually from the perspective of a French Canadian, Quebec was once New France. Just saying.

No word of a lie, my Alberta bred wife and I are visiting the Plains of Abraham. She says, "look, why are there so many statues of the losers?". Ouch. Threat of impending divorce avoided 'cause she's a looker.

I'm not a sovereigntist - heavens no, not a royalist either. The biggest problem I see with with separatist movements is the notion that 50%+1 will make a nation. I have no idea what the formula is for Scotland, but 50+1 is a recipe for strife. 90% in favor is a go IMHO.

Alan

[headstand]

Actually from the perspective of a French Canadian, Quebec was once New France. Just saying.

No word of a lie, my Alberta bred wife and I are visiting the Plains of Abraham. She says, "look, why are there so many statues of the losers?". Ouch. Threat of impending divorce avoided 'cause she's a looker.

I'm not a sovereigntist - heavens no, not a royalist either. The biggest problem I see with with separatist movements is the notion that 50%+1 will make a nation. I have no idea what the formula is for Scotland, but 50+1 is a recipe for strife. 90% in favor is a go IMHO.

Alan

BTW, glad to see you back Keith.

[ChanceSchmerr]

The biggest problem I see with with separatist movements is the notion that 50%+1 will make a nation. I have no idea what the formula is for Scotland, but 50+1 is a recipe for strife. 90% in favor is a go IMHO.

Alan

Amen. My thoughts exactly.

Also - from a broader perspective - the only way the human race is going to really move forward is through greater unity and cooperation - nationalist fervour and the endless breakup of countries and unions into smaller countries puts us backward in the grand scheme as humans, by highlighting our differences instead of fostering cooperation. The Scots are their own people as are the Quebecois - no one's going to take that away from them - but there has to be a way to work within the United Kingdom for Scotland. Its not as if the EU is clamoring for the Scots to separate, after all.

Oh - and I dont think we're ready for a world government yet by any stretch - but the fractitous world order we have now doesn't seem to cut it, does it?

[...]

I'm with Schmerr on this. Everybody is as special as the next guy. Greater division is likely not the way forward...

[Maplepie]

Are you serious? The companies that own the largest numbers of scottish distilleries are the english Diageo (±25) and the french Pernod-Ricard (±15)…

What? Not even half the distilleries in Scotland are foreign owned, and out of those foreign owned ones, Indian owners are not even the largest. French, Brazilian and others run the most.

For some reason... i thought that Diageo was an Indian owned company. My mistake on that one...

Turns out only United Distilleries (Dalmore, W&M, etc) is an Indian conglomerate.

Stop drinking the meths in your chemistry

Hmmmmmmmm..... you mentioned you were English somewhere, eh?

easy to draw correlations to you r- Pixa!

[Zigatoh]

+1 on headstand and chanceschmerr

I believe this is one of those situations where it just needs a higher yes vote, and the polls are very close. So even worse, it's 50% +1 of the voting population, so could be around 41% of the eligible to vote population, depending on turnout of course but again looking at the polls.

[Pixa]

Hmmmmmmmm..... you mentioned you were English somewhere, eh?

easy to draw correlations to you r- Pixa!

I have never in my life mentioned or even come close to saying I was English you mistake my knowledge of you buying fake cigars for a botl as me conversing with you elsewhere. It was just everyone not been able to believe you would buy from such a well known fake peddler that ensured everyone knew

[earthson]

I am a HUGE fan of secession.

[Fosgate]

[Maplepie]

It was just everyone not been able to believe you would buy from such a well known fake peddler that ensured everyone knew

ack, word travels fast then!

hell. i couldn't believe it neither...

[Ryan]

If I was running the 'No' campaign I'd send a few crews up to start repairing Hadrian's wall. Should cast a few doubts.

[CanuckSARTech]

Actually from the perspective of a French Canadian, Quebec was once New France. Just saying.

No word of a lie, my Alberta bred wife and I are visiting the Plains of Abraham. She says, "look, why are there so many statues of the losers?". Ouch. Threat of impending divorce avoided 'cause she's a looker.

I'm not a sovereigntist - heavens no, not a royalist either. The biggest problem I see with with separatist movements is the notion that 50%+1 will make a nation. I have no idea what the formula is for Scotland, but 50+1 is a recipe for strife. 90% in favor is a go IMHO.

Alan

BTW, glad to see you back Keith.

Well said (and thanks).

Sorry, I do understand the "New France" thing there. Upper Canada and Lower Canada, and all that jazz. But, at the time, they were (somewhat) co-existing territories and then colonies, not declared countries already. Quebec, in it's present form, was only created through the willingness at the time of a vast majority to be a province within Canada.

And completely agreed on the 50%+1 thing. That's a nightmare.

[ayepatz]

Interesting how a poll about Scotland has become about Canada! lol
I have friends in Catalonia who feel the same way, and here in Belgium there's a big Flanders Independence support.

I also did a poll of my Facebook friends to see how people were feeling. The vast majority were against separating, even amongst those of my friends who live in Scotland.

It will be interesting to see what happens this week!

[headstand]

Interesting how a poll about Scotland has become about Canada! lol

I have friends in Catalonia who feel the same way, and here in Belgium there's a big Flanders Independence support.

I also did a poll of my Facebook friends to see how people were feeling. The vast majority were against separating, even amongst those of my friends who live in Scotland.

It will be interesting to see what happens this week!

Sorry, it's just that we have lived through this a few times already. It will be interesting. Hope for all that the morning after doesn't include too much of a hangover.