Coffee roasting business questions/ideas, I'd greatly appreciate any feedback!

[bradbrennan]

Fresh roasted but I dont drink more than a cup or two a day. Ihave a local roaster, but I usually order from southwestcoffeeroasters from texas. Great company.

Do you only order a pound or so at a time in order to use while fresh?

[groundhog]

Does that mean you get a weekly delivery?

Depends how quickly I get through it. Generally 1 every 1 to two weeks. If I'm running out I reorder.

[wookiemofo]

Sweet Maria's Moka Kadir and Workshop blends are pretty insane

[TypicalSituation]

Sweet Maria's Moka Kadir and Workshop blends are pretty insane

Yes sir! Just roasted up a workshop tonight, along with the liquid amber, Sumatra and Guatemala

[jat]

A mate gave me a bag of Civet coffee last week from his Coffee plantation in Vietnam..."funky"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now there's a job, Civet coffee bean finder / scrapper / cleaner, whatever.

[garbandz]

Kopi Luwak is the most faked coffee in the world, just like cigars. Only the real stuff tastes really good and even then, worth the $? Not so sure.

As for the coffee biz? Find a local commercial roaster whose coffee you like and trust (not a store). Sweet Maria's is great but they don't roast, package it in Detroit for you. Make sure you can order in small batches and decide what varieties you want to carry. I suggest

Ethiopian Yirgacheffe

Something Guatamaulan or Peru

Something Brazil

Maybe another African.

The important think about online biz is meta tags and key word

image.jpg

Africa has some amazing coffees,Rwanda,Burundi,Kenya,Ethiopia,Yemen,Congo.........And they are very versatile,roast light and get fruity flavors,darker for caramel and chocolate.

Indonesia has the most unusual flavor nuances,Papua New Guinea can taste like"Jungle",Sumatra can taste ashey or alkaline(volcanic),Bali has a savory,almost meaty nuance.Sulawesi is smooth and low acid,roasted dark it has a touch of molasses.

South American coffee runs a wide range,from grainy(Columbia) to flinty(Peru) to almost dessert like(Brasil).I like all of them.

Central America does excellent work,Costa Rica,Panama,Guatemala all are worth a try.

China Yunnan is not bad,kind of delicate,maybe a few years more on the plants will bring it up to par. Also the beans are soft,maybe a processing thing..........

[bradbrennan]

Africa has some amazing coffees,Rwanda,Burundi,Kenya,Ethiopia,Yemen,Congo.........And they are very versatile,roast light and get fruity flavors,darker for caramel and chocolate.

Indonesia has the most unusual flavor nuances,Papua New Guinea can taste like"Jungle",Sumatra can taste ashey or alkaline(volcanic),Bali has a savory,almost meaty nuance.Sulawesi is smooth and low acid,roasted dark it has a touch of molasses.

South American coffee runs a wide range,from grainy(Columbia) to flinty(Peru) to almost dessert like(Brasil).I like all of them.

Central America does excellent work,Costa Rica,Panama,Guatemala all are worth a try.

China Yunnan is not bad,kind of delicate,maybe a few years more on the plants will bring it up to par. Also the beans are soft,maybe a processing thing..........

Sounds like you know your coffee! Have you visited any farms directly? A story a few years ago got me into roasting, the interviewer had to ride a donkey to get up the final climb to the farm.

[stigmata]

Kopi Luwak is banned in Australia for that reason. Too many sellers were force feeding the civets to produce higher quantities to support the demand. Not only was in cruel, but the quality goes out the door, as the civets are no longer choosing the the right berries to eat.

Actually its a pain to get in because of the organic matter associated with it

and also there isnt much of a market for it '

There is plenty of free range KL in Sumatra... but the problem is the fake stuff .and as you pointed out the farmed stuff

[stigmata]

Indo is heavy syrupy and depends on the island .. Sumatran is earthier

My preference for Indonesian is keep away from the Java .. and stick to North Sumatra (Aceh / Gayo/ Batak) or from the island of Sulawesi

Bali is quite underwhelming and often woody

Timor is your all rounder.. very easy to drink and has abit of everything

All of the above lend themselves to dark roasting or lighter

PNG fruitier lighter more tea like.. Very light bodied... Youll find stuff like citrus etc in it.

Ethiopian are my faves. Yrgecheffe is elegant and floral

Harrar is robust fruit and spicy

DJimmah is earthy

Sidamo is fruity and can be abit like the Harrar or the Yrgecheffe depending on natural or wet process.

Theyre all quite chocolatey

Kenyan is a powerhouse can be winey or citrusy fruity berry

Different kinds of Yemen... theyre more rare and fetch a Kings ranson ... Literally in price and also the Saudis love it...

Keep your eyes open for it... super complex and rich tasting. they range from more chocolatey to more spice or fruit... depending on the year , the region and the lot number.

Centrals are sweet

Southerns are bright and shine in acidity more.

Brazils are nutty and milk chocolate.. excellent for crema and body.. quite cheap usually.. therefore making them the base in most espresso blends.(though you can get some lots that are expensive and more complex)

Think of it as your volado / seco in your cigar

Its the guts of the coffee ..

Then u add what you want .

Earth

Spice

fruit

its up to you... and that is the classic construction of most espresso blends.. certainly in Italy ..and by extension mainstream Australian cafe blends

Remember this is a rough guide and coffees vary even within the same country .. region.. and years

[bradbrennan]

Indo is heavy syrupy and depends on the island .. Sumatran is earthier

My preference for Indonesian is keep away from the Java .. and stick to North Sumatra (Aceh / Gayo/ Batak) or from the island of Sulawesi

Bali is quite underwhelming and often woody

Timor is your all rounder.. very easy to drink and has abit of everything

All of the above lend themselves to dark roasting or lighter

PNG fruitier lighter more tea like.. Very light bodied... Youll find stuff like citrus etc in it.

Ethiopian are my faves. Yrgecheffe is elegant and floral

Harrar is robust fruit and spicy

DJimmah is earthy

Sidamo is fruity and can be abit like the Harrar or the Yrgecheffe depending on natural or wet process.

Theyre all quite chocolatey

Kenyan is a powerhouse can be winey or citrusy fruity berry

Different kinds of Yemen... theyre more rare and fetch a Kings ranson ... Literally in price and also the Saudis love it...

Keep your eyes open for it... super complex and rich tasting. they range from more chocolatey to more spice or fruit... depending on the year , the region and the lot number.

Centrals are sweet

Southerns are bright and shine in acidity more.

Brazils are nutty and milk chocolate.. excellent for crema and body.. quite cheap usually.. therefore making them the base in most espresso blends.(though you can get some lots that are expensive and more complex)

Think of it as your volado / seco in your cigar

Its the guts of the coffee ..

Then u add what you want .

Earth

Spice

fruit

its up to you... and that is the classic construction of most espresso blends.. certainly in Italy ..and by extension mainstream Australian cafe blends

Remember this is a rough guide and coffees vary even within the same country .. region.. and years

Sounds like you're in the coffee business?

[westg]

It's interesting that coffee has its own flavour wheel, just like wine and cigars. (I'll try to attach it but tapatalk is in a bad mood atm)

Also, here is a good link to an overview of different coffee country characteristics http://www.zecuppa.com/coffee-producing-countries.htm

Remember that to taste the true flavour of the bean you should use a French press and not mix with milk. I can't help laughing at people who call themselves coffee lovers and only drink lattes or flat whites (nothing wrong with that in itself though, only that you are actually drinking milk with a slight coffee flavour not coffee ).

It's like only smoking flavoured cigars and calling yourself a cigar connoisseur. For the same reason I never call myself a true tea drinker as I usually have milk and sugar in it.

I agree Magnus in regard to coffee ...but the thought of milk and sugar with tea ...yuk ...each to their own.

[stigmata]

brad , i am...

i specialise in single origins mostly.

And a roast up a heap of Cubans.

Top of the Cuban coffee tree is the Crystal Mountain. We dont always get that here in Australia and when we do we dont get enough.

Though the more staple Cubans are pretty good. Great with most Habanos.

If you want a RASS/RASCC kind of taste in your coffee go the Yemen if you can find it. Make sure its freshly roasted. If you can't dont fret youll find a good Ethiopian Harrar or a good Sidamo dry process (natural).. they will do the trick.

Pairing coffee with cigars can be rewarding.. and milk coffee can enhance the cigar too. Think Montecristo milk coffee/ vanilla etc

There are no rules with what you should do with coffee cigars or any drink .. its all about what works for you.

We are all different....

Personally i dont get how Rob , Ken Smiffy etc drink reds with some of those cigars but thats my palate... i can still pair cigars and reds but the tannins and the structure of red wine would interfere and fight with the cigar flavours too much for me

I often dont even have a drink with a cigar

Sunday mornings i might read the paper and pair it up with an espresso.. or a cappuccino.

One of the best pairings i ever had was a medium to dark roast Ethiopian Djimma cappuccino dusted with chocolate and a Vegas Robaina Famosos .

The two totally mirrored each other i didnt know when i was drinking or smoking ..totally surreal experience .

The earthiness and cocoa and the dustiness of chocolate was a mirroring of each other.

Try a Sulawesi Toraja with a Bolivar Coronas Gigantes a Lusutanias /D4 or 898 sometimes if youre into coffee pairings.

Earthy sweet maple syrup

But then there are times i love the Greek Metaxa brandy /Spanish Brandy or Cuban Ron Santiago Extra 12 (my favourite rum better than Zacapas and Diplomaticos plus better priced IMO) I think it also smashes the stock standard Havana Club 7

I find the big Scotches like Laphroaig and Ardbeg way too overpowering for any cigar.

But were all different and we all like different things.

There is no right or wrong.

Just what we like and dont like.

Getting back to coffee... just try freshly roasted and ground coffee if you can. Not the supermarket stuff.

Experiment with single origins and your cigar of choice.

Depending on what kind of backdrop you want with the cigar... earthy/ spicy/ sweet/ fruity

Probably stay away from anything thats very acidy/ bright tasting.. it will shift the emphasis away from the cigar to the coffee.

But if youre going to get a little home roaster.. there are plenty of places you can buy raw coffee beans and they keep for a while in their raw green state.Roast what youll use and choose your cigars accordingly.

Cuban coffee has a synergy with cuban cigars just as i think Cuban rum does too. Maybe its subliminal but to me they work more than adequately

[bradbrennan]

brad , i am...

i specialise in single origins mostly.

And a roast up a heap of Cubans.

Thanks, great stuff! So can you share more about your business, do you own a business, coffee shop, bulk roaster?!

[canadianbeaver]

I own my own small coffee company and the discussion here is fantastic. Another region for coffee that is under appreciated is India. I have carried one from Mysore, and the beans are larger so they call them Nuggets. The unfortunate name of the coffee, and I swear I am not making this up, is... Mysore Nuggets.

The reason Indian coffee is so exceptional is because it is shade grown at the same farms with other crops among spices that infiltrate the soil. The organic coffee has notes of these flavours plus the rich coffee taste.

I differ in opinion about milk in coffee, sugar, whatever. I have been selling incredible coffee all over the world for years and I basically tell my customers drink it however you want. I use a coffee maker called a Moccamaster Technivorm. In the Canadian Coffee Tasting Championships (please do not laugh too hard ok?) this is what they were using so I bought two of them. I came in tied for third out of 10.

I love a French Press but it does not make enough coffee for addicts like Matthew and me in the morning and the coffee does not stay hot.

Yay coffee lovers on FOH!!!!

[TypicalSituation]

I think we need our own group and can swap home roasts and cigars!

[stigmata]

I roast and wholesale specialty coffees.brad

The Indians are great.. especially in espresso .. i agree beaver.

I do roast some of them especially one designed for an Australian Importer called 'Tiger Mountain' a % of each bag sold goes to a fund that helps maintain the tigers survival as a species in India.

Totally under appreciated are the Indians(coffee).. During the Soviet union days most of Indias coffee went to Russia for energy since that era its been opened up for the rest of us.

The monsoon coffees. Named that because theyre left in open warehouses during the monsoon period. The humidity gets into the bean and swells it giving it a heap of body in the cup but not much acidity. At its best it creates an interesting and engaging heavy bodied low acidity coffee.And at its worst its very funky in its taste.. at that kind of profile very much a hit or miss and no inbetween for peoples individual palates

The humidity from monsoon treatment mimicks the profile the coffee took getting from India to England on ships through the tropics many years ago.

only a small % of indian coffees that are monsooned mind you.

Canadianbeaver is correct about the spice notes many Indians seem to have in their DNA as theyre grown side by side with other crops usually spices or vanilla etc.

Look for a good Indian Arabica ... most people associate India with great teas like Darjeeling.. but we will leave the teas for another thread.

Personally i love espresso coffee extractions and i get a fantastic clean cup using an old style 3 group lever machine. Its very clean in its extractions

Usually im having a double ristretto because i prefer its intensity.

With a cigar i dont mind a cappuccino .. cigars take at least 4o minutes... and espressos are too short.. and i find the sweetness of the milk with the dilution of the coffee a perfect canvas for the cigar to take centre stage and do its stuff.

I actually love cigars too much to often allow them to co-star.

[canadianbeaver]

When I was doing research for the coffee biz I went to the big coffee show in Chicago. The Specialty Coffee Association was giving out mini posters of the flavours wheel above. It is probably the best, simplest resource for coffee flavours you can find. The show was a waste of time. Don't go. Most of the vendors sell coffee syrups and cups. They also hold the barista championships so obsessed servers sit all over the floor and don't care about anything in the show.

One think I used to tell visitors to my booth at shows, which I ultimately found a complete waste of time and money, was the difference between strong and bold. Strong is the amount of coffee in the water; Bold is the intensity of the bean.

I also came up with a clever stir stick. Fettuccini! Visitors would even eat it after they used it.

The problem with the booth was guys thought I was the show coffee stand and came up and order two drinks I did not "serve", and then got pissed when I did not serve them!

[bradbrennan]

The problem with the booth was guys thought I was the show coffee stand and came up and order two drinks I did not "serve", and then got pissed when I did not serve them!

I've done plenty of trade shows in the early days of my construction business. I don't know that I'm looking to do that again. But I know I always looked for a better cup of coffee from people like you I would think serving coffee would be a good way to spread the word? But I know I've seen many coffee drinkers in my area that can slightly appreciate a good cup but still drink out of their month old big can of Folgers. I'm not looking to be a competitor on your level, Lisa, just would like to get a good coffee to more of my local neighborhood, and at least my immediate family which has about 35 coffee drinkers that appreciate a better cup but don't go out of their way to get it. I have a sister-in-law that runs a gift shop in tourist town Cody, Wyoming and sells a bulk coffee that's pretty good. She usually brings some to family gatherings a couple times a year, mostly flavored coffee, but those family members that enjoy it drink their crappy coffee the rest of the year. Our local grocery stores sell a nasty bulk coffee, Our coffee shops and others sell some better coffee but many don't manage the inventory well enough to keep it fresh. And of course Walmart sells a large selection of vacuum sealed that has expiration dates as far as a year out, can they possibly stay fresh that long?! And Keurig K cups, as many here seem to like, again how long can they stay fresh and I haven't found the quality to be very high. Have a brother-in-law has K cups for his family, drinks coffee at work five days a week, then uses the refillable K cup on the weekend from a bag of Starbucks that he's had open for several weeks. So maybe I have enough challenge just to get my family to step up their coffee, short of providing them free coffee, what do you do?!?!

[stigmata]

supermarket coffee isnt fresh

on another thread i noticed people talking about costco 'blue mountain' thats a 'blue mountain blend' people

blue mountain coffee would not logically be sold pre packed at costco

its too valuable a commodity for people who want and need it freshly roasted

[bradbrennan]

supermarket coffee isnt fresh

on another thread i noticed people talking about costco 'blue mountain' thats a 'blue mountain blend' people

blue mountain coffee would not logically be sold pre packed at costco

its too valuable a commodity for people who want and need it freshly roasted

Can you mention your business here or maybe you could pm me if you'd rather be anonymous?

[bradbrennan]

Mysore Nuggets.

Yay coffee lovers on FOH!!!!

Your nuggets are on sale on my green coffee site

[canadianbeaver]

I've done plenty of trade shows in the early days of my construction business. I don't know that I'm looking to do that again. But I know I always looked for a better cup of coffee from people like you I would think serving coffee would be a good way to spread the word? But I know I've seen many coffee drinkers in my area that can slightly appreciate a good cup but still drink out of their month old big can of Folgers. I'm not looking to be a competitor on your level, Lisa, just would like to get a good coffee to more of my local neighborhood, and at least my immediate family which has about 35 coffee drinkers that appreciate a better cup but don't go out of their way to get it. I have a sister-in-law that runs a gift shop in tourist town Cody, Wyoming and sells a bulk coffee that's pretty good. She usually brings some to family gatherings a couple times a year, mostly flavored coffee, but those family members that enjoy it drink their crappy coffee the rest of the year. Our local grocery stores sell a nasty bulk coffee, Our coffee shops and others sell some better coffee but many don't manage the inventory well enough to keep it fresh. And of course Walmart sells a large selection of vacuum sealed that has expiration dates as far as a year out, can they possibly stay fresh that long?! And Keurig K cups, as many here seem to like, again how long can they stay fresh and I haven't found the quality to be very high. Have a brother-in-law has K cups for his family, drinks coffee at work five days a week, then uses the refillable K cup on the weekend from a bag of Starbucks that he's had open for several weeks. So maybe I have enough challenge just to get my family to step up their coffee, short of providing them free coffee, what do you do?!?!

Paragraphs are your friend bwahahaha !!

I gave out samples of my coffee. I only sell online. Not a coffee shop.

[Rye]

Paragraphs are your friend bwahahaha !!

I gave out samples of my coffee. I only sell online. Not a coffee shop.

Lisa, you are a wealth of knowledge and good taste, and I thank you for the great beans you sent! I will reciprocate, and I thank you for your patience.

Oh, what are your thoughts on the aero-press?

[Maplepie]

Paragraphs are your friend bwahahaha !!

i'd say!!

Brad! That treasure trove of information you wrote could keep back the East Germans!!

[canadianbeaver]

Lisa, you are a wealth of knowledge and good taste, and I thank you for the great beans you sent! I will reciprocate, and I thank you for your patience.

Oh, what are your thoughts on the aero-press?

I was given one when they first came out. Sits at the back of my cupboard or maybe I gave it away? If I need a cup of coffee, I make a pot. We make espresso with a Nespresso machine. I find these little gizmos complicated and a pain to keep clean.

But then again, I am not even a French press fan. Not enough coffee for us without making more (and more).