General Discussion: Private vs Public Forum

[El Presidente]

Private vs Public forum

I would like to open the discussion among members of FOH as to the future direction of the forum as it pertains to remain a public cigar forum or evolves into a private cigar forum.

This has been raised to me on several occasions over the years but increasingly so since late last year. I have my opinion but I will keep it to myself for the time being as I want to gauge the opinion of members. Please feel free to ponder the issue, vote in the poll and express your thoughts on this thread should you wish.

Note: Denegation of any other forum is not permitted.

No decision will be made until 2015 and only after taking into consideration the wishes of members.

I appreciate your input

If I can summarise.

The Case for Remaining a Public Forum.

There is nothing wrong with private forums where membership comes about by referral of other established members. There is something egalitarian about a public forum open to all who are prepared to abound to the forum culture, guidelines and core values.

We all started in cigars somewhere. Some of us even pre internet!

Remember back to when you were just starting out in the world of cigars and you were a sponge for information. You would go into your B&M and talk to the owner or sales staff, if post internet you would spend hours upon hours searching for information online, week in and week out. Some of the information was no doubt flawed, much of it was useful.

In today’s world the ability to go to a corner B&M is limited. Many of you live in locations where hooking up with like-minded spirits is near impossible.

Particularly for those just getting into cigars, public forums are an invaluable source. Take away FOH as a public cigar resource and in part we turn our backs on those who are commencing the journey.

The Case For changing to a Private Forum

Evolution is a natural part of the growth process. Further growth in FOH will make it unwieldy and much of what has made it a great place for cigar lovers will disappear.

Making FOH a private forum is not elitist. Membership can be permitted by referral. The referring member will need a reasonable number of posts/contribution to FOH but it would not be unreasonable.

A private forum will engender a closer community, perhaps more open discussion on some delicate topics that relate to this hobby. A community outside of open public gaze and open membership engenders a greater level of trust and willingness to share oneself.

Governments/bureaucracies in different parts of the world are also increasing their surveillance of tobacco “sites” and this not going to become less over time. Going to a Private forum may just provide a little bit of cover.

[Duxnutz]

Heart believes in Public access but my head thinks eventually it'll have to go private.

[Guest rob]

I'm generally against elitism and cliques .... but the groups i notice operate best do so when 'memebership' is a privelage, and not a right.

Members of private organisations are generally accountable, and keep fellow members to account.

You shouldn't have people in your forum that you wouldn't have in your house.

Having said all that - this is (by far) one of the best public forums around. It doesn't have one fraction of the problems others do.

[Profmd]

Thankfully it was a public forum when I started.

I have been here for over a year and I guess wouldn't been a part of it if it was private.

I'm sure my money would have gone elsewhere also if I couldn't get in for all the LFTH purchases.

I can see how it would go either way, but I guess from my optionion would be to keep it as is.

Thanks Jeff

[Sqwints]

My personal view is private. I actually just joined a few weeks ago and I was referred here by a friend that's a member. With that said honestly it's probably how a lot of us new guys got on here. I stay away from any internet sites or forums with out some kind of reputable research or trusting an educated friends experience. I for one am located in the US so there is a lot of changes with our Gov. do's and dont's dealing with survalience, but that's for another topic some where else. I feel you guys have something special here and to keep this family feel and tightness it would be very benifitual to go as a private referral forum. I've always been told word of mouth is the best advertising any reputable place needs to strive and prosper anyway. So, until the descion is made stay SMOKIN!! Sqwints

[dafrey23]

I haven't been posting much lately (taken a step back to just read more and learn), but I just have to jump in on this one. My reasons for voting for private are purely selfish...

1. It would, theoretically, make the LFTW better since I would assume everyone would be able to follow the rules (huge assumption).

2. It would, theoretically, make it easier to get my favorite PSPs since there would be less "competition".

3. I would have less concern about the security of what information I may volunteer here.

However, I can also see that going private may be necessary because it becomes increasingly impossible to maintain the quality of this forum as more members come on. Eventually you're going to run into a few bad apples that will ruin it for everyone. It's hard to moderate something of this size and keep the quality up.

With all that said though, I would be nowhere without this forum and I'd hate to take that away from other new people that are just looking for a great place to discuss Cuba, Cuban Culture, and Cuban Cigars. It would be sad, but it might be inevitable.

No matter the decision, some people will be happy and some will be sad. It's the price of progress.

[jgnome]

You might want to move a little bit in the direction of private by making a secure connection at this site (https rather than http). That should cut down on unauthorised snooping by uninvited parties a little more difficult.

After that, reconsider once again if you should go private?

[Pedro2486]

A conundrum for sure.

I can see benefits from both, but which is more beneficial?

Taking the fact that FOH is the preeminent Cuban cigar forum on the interwebs with, as I have found, the best members and culture, it would be a shame to deny access to new/budding aficionados. Every effort should be made to allow people the choice to smoke and collect cigars and an open forum would accommodate this.

Going back thru the intro forum it seems to me that the desire to learn about ones new hobby has been what led many here via google or referral from other sites or, like myself, via discovering *****AS. In my time here it seems that there has been an exponential increase in new sign ups which, as Rob says, will cause the site to become unwieldy and actually become a detriment to it.

Perhaps a public "front" could be created to still allow new smokers the information they crave, or a way in for new members via the Cigar Underground sales sites.

As for the private argument, there are many benefits. The all seeing eye of big brother is upon us and anti smoking campaigners need no more ammo. It would make FOH a safe haven for members to discuss and embrace their choice to smoke Cubans, with free discussion a safer proposition.

We already have a large membership (though I am unsure of the numbers) and limiting new ones would help keep the site true to it's created purpose (it seems to me that the larger a forum gets the more the original idea of the forum is diluted) and would also keep the site running well from a technical standpoint without ongoing server upgrades.

I think that while there are upsides to both choices, there is a greater benefit to what FOH is now in transitioning to a private forum.

On re reading my post I see I have pretty much just regurgitated what Rob has written. Oops, I stand by my points however.

Please forgive me weighing in on this in my still newish member state, I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Cheers

Pete

[ptrthgr8]

A "private" forum will not make the site gov't proof. That's just a silly notion.

I would prefer to see a mixed option. I.e. a publicly accessible forum of some sort, with perhaps the meat of the site limited to members only. Just because someone isn't a referral by an existing member doesn't mean they wouldn't fit right in. But I see nothing wrong with some sort of vetting process.

Cheers,

Greg

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

[Pedro2486]

You might want to move a little bit in the direction of private by making a secure connection at this site (https rather than http). That should cut down on unauthorised snooping by uninvited parties a little more difficult.

After that, reconsider once again if you should go private?

Considering the back doors in SSL and HTTPS I don't think this will help much. We aren't stopping hackers and private snoops but government and it's allies. Yes it will make it more secure but it will mostly be against those we are not concerned about IMO

[Maplepie]

Governments/bureaucracies in different parts of the world are also increasing their surveillance of tobacco “sites” and this not going to become less over time. Going to a Private forum may just provide a little bit of cover.

This has been something that i've honestly REALLY worried about. I've always said one can never be too paranoid. Especially when there is innate fearin the government. What do they have to gain from proctoring this site? It doesn't matter. There needs to be a right to privacy

I shouldn't [sHOULDN'T] have to fear them. But i've lived with it and have started to accept it; and therefore, i must adapt.

For this reason and this reason only, i have chosen the latter option.

[Guyman1966]

What do you think will be best for your business? If private, I would not have learned as much as I have in such a short time... and would not have made some of the purchases I have. Like others have said, I don't believe that going private will prevent a Gov from finding out what they want to find.

[ogus]

If it helps your business and you see advantages both ways you could have a public main and an invitation by approval private board. I always thought private boards were for legal reasons and protection of privacy.

[Ken Gargett]

i wonder how many valuable and respected members would not be with us if we had been private all along and how many we'll miss in the future.

strongly in favour of open to all.

i'm all for stricter control and harsher penalties for transgressions but i don't like the idea of barriers to those who wish to be involved.

leave it open to all but perhaps have minimum contribution levels. if you don't participate in some way (whether that be as a customer of rob's or posting on the forum or whatever) within a 6 month period or a year or whatever, then off you go.

but give everyone a chance.

[Habano]

FoH is not tailored to be a private forum and that is simply because FoH is a business. Private forums are not setup nor are they owned by vendors who sell Cuban cigars. Private cigar forums are created by those within the community who have no business interest or investment at stake. FoH and Czar thrive and succeed on the noobs to this hobby and by being found by the general public.

Sorry to say, but it's too late for FoH to become a private forum. FoH has been "out there" far too long for it to even be considered a private forum.

Regarding your comment on "Governments/bureaucracies in different parts of the world are also increasing their surveillance of tobacco “sites” and this not going to become less over time". I am afraid that is too late for FoH as well. The fact that FoH has been a bit too loud over the years has caused FoH and Czar to become an easy target.

What I think you're aiming to do is take the registration down for FoH and make it an invite or referral only forum, but it will still be searchable and found all over the internet which will still generally be a public forum.

[mk05]

First rule of fight club is

[Pedro2486]

First rule of fight club is

No shirt, no shoes, no service?

[Habano]

First rule of fight club is

Precisely which echos my statements above.

[oliverdst]

Since moderators are always around the garbage is quickly dumped.

Public forum for sure.

Maybe a "long runner" private forum for those members who have more than 1000 posts and/or 1 year of membership.

[Jeremy Festa]

I am a 'have your cake and eat it too' kind of guy. Go both i.e. public with a library worth of information, hints, tips etc and then an inner private sanctum to be referral/participation based.

[Drguano]

I enjoy the openness of this public forum and the way it functions with a lot of respect for other members and a minimum of acrimony. This attitude comes from the top down and I salute Rob for modeling an example of good natured tolerance of each other and direct intolerance of pulpit thumping for any cause save that of sharing the good life with mates.

As far as government surveillance goes, i think the power mongers exist in their own dimension and have bigger control issues to be Obsessed with than infiltrating cigar smokers forums. If this were not true, many of us would already be breaking rocks. Worst case scenario? Transport to Australia!

[El Presidente]

FoH is not tailored to be a private forum and that is simply because FoH is a business. Private forums are not setup nor are they owned by vendors who sell Cuban cigars. Private cigar forums are created by those within the community who have no business interest or investment at stake. FoH and Czar thrive and succeed on the noobs to this hobby and by being found by the general public.

What I think you're aiming to do is take the registration down for FoH and make it an invite or referral only forum, but it will still be searchable and found all over the internet which will still generally be a public forum.

I appreciate the input.

To clarify, we couldn't supply more than we do now. There would be no business impact. I am getting old and need to retire anyway

I am actually not aiming to do anything. I am more than happy to leave it public unless there is a groundswell to private and then it would be discussed further.

In relation to Govt, I am fully aware that they can access what they want if they really want. 9-5 public servants however don't generally have the will to go past the basics.

[mk05]

Yikes David, you went for the jugular there. Simply saying that the elegant solution would have been to create the private portal without any mention.

Have a good night everyone.

[Firebender]

Keep it public! People change and I have seen quite a few people who were very active, suddenly quit. We need new people to keep this place busy and lively. I would have suggest a short probation period for new members to discourage who are not serious.

[Habano]

I appreciate the input.

To clarify, we couldn't supply more than we do now. There would be no business impact. I am getting old and need to retire anyway

I am actually not aiming to do anything. I am more than happy to leave it public unless there is a groundswell to private and then it would be discussed further.

In relation to Govt, I am fully aware that they can access what they want if they really want. 9-5 public servants however don't generally have the will to go past the basics.

What I think you could do and what I would do if I were you is to create both public and private forums. Why can't you have both? Well you really can if you set it up right and stick to it.

Move the sensitive material such as certain discussions, sales, and etc to the private side of the forum, but still leave the public side open for FoH and Czar to be "found" to keep your new blood coming in.

As for the private side, perhaps make it only accessible and viewable to members that meet a certain threshold such as X number of posts, time as a member, and etc. Everyone else just sees the "public" side of FoH which would be more of general discussion in regards to all topics as well as cigars, but not see the private side of it till the requirements are met.