General Discussion: Private vs Public Forum

[CaptainQuintero]

It's a difficult one. I've said seen many forums go down the toilet for many reasons, power hungry, elitist and hypocritical mods, owner/admin going crazy, membership splits, individuals making threats against people who offended their 'honour' and creating fear or mistrust. FoH has a winning formula, I would be hesitant to reinvent the wheel.

Two tier forums look appealing as they seem to cater to both ends of the spectrum but it is essentially divide and conquer. New members feel belittled or unwanted, issues arise with post bumping to get into the top tier restricted forum etc. Old members get bored with the lack of new discussion and move on.

New mods would be needed and all their workload would increase. The problem would be new mods would have to be long time and trusted members, but members who become mods on any site will become frustrated and eventually leave or become jaded and post less and less. Is it worth loosing valued members and their contributions for the sake of dividing the community?

Security seems a moot point, if you have posted/bought something on the net and any person/gvmnt/company wants it they can get it very easily. Common sense is the best defense.

Personally I say keep it as it is, make lftw have a 250 post limit to make less headache for Di and team.

People who come here and stay do so for the immediate friendship and wealth of information available here, not because of cheapest deals. Catering to those who see FoH as a shop first and for second seems to go against what I understand FoH stands for.

Closing ourselves away from new blood I fear would be the start of the death of the forum.

Just my 2c

[canadianbeaver]

Public. But same rule to participate in chatbox to LFTH... 100 posts.

[DrunkenMonkey]

My worry with a private forum, aside from keeping good people away, is that it will give people a false sense of security and cause them to discuss things they wouldn't otherwise, and so make it less secure in the end than if people just keep in mind the public nature of the discussions.

[ARRV]

As with many other posts I thought of writing Or wrote a long post, thought about it, then deleted it because this is a public forum. People, I have a certain view of where our hobby is headed in terms of availability of tobacco products etc and I do not think it is good. For that reason I think go private. Then I think - what is truly private? On a forum on the inter webs. Is it ever private. So maybe keep it public and stuff them all. A private forum is only a subpoena away from being public anyway. But as many a judge here has said - never type something unless you can handle speaking to it in court one day. Mind you I think that principle summarises what the moderators already do here - so I guess I have been ambivalent in my ramblings. Fundamentally I do think a private forum would be more conducive to open discussion - if only from me - but I may be a complete bore !

[Blakes]

With FOH becoming a bigger beast it also means our voice is louder, It has been mention that HSA checks in from time to time, which to us skinny lovers is a good thing... the more they see our complaints the greater the chance of something changing....... eventually! lol

[danielmgibbs]

I am most certainly in favour of keeping the forum open for many reasons (not least because the non-elitist, cameraderie of this site was what stood out to me in the first place) but I'd also like to address a couple of the sugegstions that have been made above. I am, I suppose, a relatively new member of around a year. I therefore don't have hundreds of posts to my name. Nonetheless I read the forum pretty much daily and I post occassionaly when I feel I have something to offer that isnt vacuous. I don't post incessantly on every thread although I thoroughly enjoy reading almost all of them. I also participate every month in LFTW and although by no means am i a big spender I do tend to buy a couple of boxes each month to support the great work of Rob, Di and the team (and I should add because the quality of the CCs are just so damn good thanks to Rob's commitment to not sell crap). All of this I do feel makes me a valid member of this community that both takes a lot out of it but also contributes in my own way. All I'm saying, in a roundabout way, is don't use post numbers as a proxy for overall community particpation. I'm sure there are a lot of people like me that engage with the site almost daily in one way or another and are the great unheard We are still just as passionate as our more vocal BOTL.

[ARRV]

Ok. Maybe I am on the wrong side of a few sharpeners following a big win for NSW against Qld tonight (it's ok my mum and her family is from Qld so I have had to suffer 8 years of ignominy) but a few good points have been made about the fact that self censorship on a public forum is good. Rob, this forum only exists because of you. The countless hours of hard work and finance you have put into this forum warrants this as your sole choice only in my view as to what you want to do. Either way I simply hope you will let me post useless rugby and rugby league posts in the future.

P.s I am on maybe 2 other hobby style forums - there is definitely a cycle as to posting - namely a regeneration of posters etc where typically it appears to some as though the same questions are being asked over again. We have all joined places as nobodies / noobies. The great thing with this hobby is that unlike some others every year there is variance in the product which lends itself to discussion about the new product and comparison with the old so even if the questions are the same the answers will always change

[SaintLuis]

If the goal is to restrict growth, there probably isn't a King Solomon approach that splits the site into public and private sections. The growth will just continue on the public side as it is now.

I really like the site, and I skulked around without a membership for a while, so it'd be hypocritical for me to say go private now that I'm here, but I'm more concerned with the adminstrations ability to maintain a club of a certain quality, and if that's in question due to growth/size, then I'd vote to preserve the quality.

Private clubs have a way of dwindling in membership, as new entrants will fail to replace the natural attrition of members, so that's something else to consider in how this plan develops.

[Newkarian]

I like the hybrid idea with the more sensitive areas being member only. We already do that in a way with trading and protected forums. Personally I think any kind of exchange of cigars should be in a private forum.

[stillinger]

As a newer member, a wall of some sort would be a bit tough. Don't think I would have tried to join if it was that way, that would have also meant way less sales to me

[poorman]

Like many others I found this place by searching for cigar reviews.

The info here for CC's is unparalleled in my opinion. Through members' input on various marca's and vitola's to the discovery of Trevor's Cuban Cigar Website, I would have none of this knowledge without FOH.

However, once here I discovered this is far more than a cigar review/sales site.

It is a conveyor of colloquial knowledge.

From MIka's F1 and Stuff: News, Technology, pages to movie and book reviews to Friendly places to smoke a cigar and last but not least the Alcohol page, there is a lot going on here.

If this is the concern...

"Governments/bureaucracies in different parts of the world are also increasing their surveillance of tobacco “sites” and this not going to become less over time. Going to a Private forum may just provide a little bit of cover. "

...then go private.

That being said I vote for keeping it public.

[DrunkenMonkey]

I am getting old and need to retire anyway

Do we get to vote on whether or not you retire?

[rcarlson]

I would think a public/private hybrid would be the best model. The tiered system where access to the LFTW, 12:12:12, and various "sensitive" topics could be granted after some investment by the member, similar to requirements currently in place for the trade forum, except that the sub forum would be hidden until the requirements were reached.

To me that's the best of both worlds. Plenty of content and discussion for the new folks, while still granting some privilege to those who have shown their desire to be a part of the community.

I like this approach best.

[Colt45]

Do we get to vote on whether or not you retire?

I always figured there'd be a coup before he ever had the chance - thought Smithy would've Yellowbearded 'im years ago.....

[Smallclub]

Maybe a purchase or two from the *****int or *****as site would be a good way of showing a commitment and earning access to the private portion.

Now that is a bad idea, FoH would become a paying fee forum, and you forget people who don't purchase online because they have full access to habanos at decent price in their country…

[greenpimp]

Public. Going private is the kiss of death. Eventually.

Great forum, great group of people, and high quality information. New blood is always needed on a thriving forum, IMO. That doesn't happen so much on a private forum.

[Ryan]

The public/private combination arrangement could work if, and this is maybe the case, there are more and more topics which should not be completely public.

A couple of caveats though.

Access to the private forum should not be based on personal recommendations/referrals or a vote of any kind and certainly not payment.

Members would have full access the private forum after a certain time as a member, number of posts/threads or a combination of both.

There should be encouragement that all new threads are started in the public forum, being moved into private only on consideration of sensitive information.

El Pres here has quite a rare perspective on what should constitute "sensitive information" as he has a business interest in cuban cigars.

It could happen that the best information could end up in the private forum only and that should be discouraged by whatever means, it would be a shame to let that happen.

Threads started in the private forum that meet the existing criteria of what can be written publicly on FoH, should be moved to the public forum.

[IcedCanuck]

I stumbled upon Rob & crew doing cigar reviews posted to YouTube. If this were a private forum I would not have gotten 'in' because I knew absolutely nobody into cigars. The overwhelming majority of fellow BOTLS/SOTLS I have met (and now know) all come from being a member (both directly and indirectly) of this forum. Due to the public nature of the forum I understand that anything I post can be viewed by any government agency of any country. I assume anything I post is always being read by someone in the government. You won't see me ever post anything on a public forum that could potentially incriminate myself.

Having a rule not to allow certain topics of conversation would be the better way to go and that rule already exists for certain topics so why not extend it to include other things? Do not discuss anything that is, or could be, illegal in the country you reside in and nobody need worry about anything. Just my .02

[AbuAmelia]

Private

[MPS]

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[TiminBC]

I voted private but really there is no such thing as private on the internet only degrees of difficulty accessing information.

I came across another forum that was private and spent 2 seconds there.

[canadianbeaver]

Some members here are private on Instagram. Perhaps ask them why?

[SCgarman]

Should remain as is. To me a private forum is a bad idea. 99 percent of members here are respectful and follow forum guidelines. This is the best cigar forum on the net for a reason.

[Puros Y Vino]

Tough call. Lots of good arguements for both.

Public. While open, can invite a host of problems. Discretion, potentially "shifty" members & trolls. As a plus it helps introduce newcomers in a very comfortable setting. FOH is the second forum I've joined once I got into cigars. I'm on several private boards that I enjoy greatly, but this one seems the most like "home" to me.

Private. A higher concentration of knowledge by like minded people. Somewhat "freer" discussions. Members tend to be well behaved. While the referral system helps with a higher standard for membership. I've seen it almost destroy a forum. One in particular had some seriously detailed information. A newly referred member got himself into a situation that was going to be bad for the members and cigar smokers in general. As a result. It was easy to kill his membership but in the process, > 60% of the content was deleted and the forum is a shadow of itself. That could happen in either scenario actually. But in this case , a really useful forum got killed.

I'm going to vote public. But I believe the solution would be a hybrid. How a "merit" system will be devised and implemented is TBD. Minimal post counts are OK. Maybe a combo of post and word counts? If possible. Otherwise we'll get 100's of "Welcome to FOH" posts a day in the Introductions sub. Not crazy about minimum purchase ie "pay for play" inclusion. Finding FOH had been a huge help for me as a "newb". I'd hope it continues to offer the same safe harbour for other adventurers.

[headstand]

Public. But same rule to participate in chatbox to LFTH... 100 posts.

I agree.