Forced Cigar Substitutions .........

[El Presidente]

When Habanos s.a took away my Partagas Serie De Connoisseur No 1/2/3 I was in a quandary. Over the years my personal stocks ran down and I new that in order to preserve the few I had, I needed to find suitable replacements. The Partagas 898 Varnished and Magnum 46 filled the full bodied void, but the size (and experience as a result) cannot be replaced.

When they took away the Punch Super Selection Number 2, I couldn't find a replacement. it has only been the recent Punch Punch of 2013 that lifted my spirits as in many ways it reminds me of a mix of the best Punch SS2 and Punch Royal Seleccion Number 11. I am hording them because experience suggests that the current quality cannot last.

I never found a replacement for the Ramon Allones 898. Similarly the Upmann Super Corona left in 2002 and until the Upmann Royal Robusto LCDH I never found a cigar with a similar flavour profile.

As an aside, given the tremendous sales success of the Upmann Royal Robusto, a re-release of the Upmann Super Corona would surely be a prudent move even if in LCDH guise.

Diplomatico number 4 is another on the list. I can't find a cigar with a similar profile and I miss it a great deal. Since its departure I have smoked far more Por larranaga Petit Coronas which are fine cigars in their own right, but i still yearn for ready access to Dip 4's.

When HSA has discontinued a cigar you loved, have you found yourself moving to a satisfactory alternative? If so I would love to hear your experiences / which ones etc.

HSA works on the premise that once a cigar has been discontinued then the consumer will indeed move to another marque/vitola. They are counting on the fact they will not lose the client.

Are they right?

[greenpimp]

Bolivar Inmensa comes to mind immediately. Can't find anything else with the dank earth and intensity of flavor. I know it wasn't very popular but it was my favorite cigar. Perfect size too.

Oh and the ERDM Grande de Espana. I am still hoarding the few I have left. Represents the breadth of the ERDM profile better than anything else. Wonderfully rich. Nothing else like it at all, IMO.

[ChanceSchmerr]

To be honest, when they discontinue something I like (such as a Corona) - I think it's short-sighted and misguided to think my tastes will change to a different size of cigar - If they had other smaller Ring Gauge options I could go to, that'd be a different story, but they don't add new 42 RG cigars when they take old ones away, they just add another Double Robusto in the mix instead.

To believe they could steer me to a larger size cigar because that's what they are making now, instead of the sizes I liked and bought (in essence, a "Suck it up, customer" attitude), just shows me that they don't know me very well as a consumer. I like many RE's and I'll try and like the occasional new release, but I'm not buying boxes of Montecristo Triple Edmundo and Cohiba BHK 82. I'm buying discontinued Coronas and Lonsdales that I find in my travels, and I'm trading with others who have the discontinued cigars I desire smoking. HSA is getting less money than it could from this consumer, because they decided to stop making what I really liked. My tastes aren't going to do a 180 change because they tell me to. I think that's arrogant presumption.

Am I wrong, Rob? You know what I buy! Tell me I'm not the only one (besides Piggy, LOL) with this buying pattern......

[ChanceSchmerr]

To answer your question more directly ..........

All the favorites that they've discontinued, I havn't found replacements. I just focus my Cigar-buying dollar towards collecting all that I can of those favorites so I can enjoy them as long as possible.

When they run out, I have no clue what I'll do. Maybe by then, HSA will have been broken up, and the marques will be in the hands of individual companies who will open up the catalogs again.

[MIKA27]

When they took away the Punch Super Selection Number 2, I couldn't find a replacement. it has only been the recent Punch Punch of 2013 that lifted my spirits as in many ways it reminds me of a mix of the best Punch SS2 and Punch Royal Seleccion Number 11. I am hording them because experience suggests that the current quality cannot last.

I love the Punch SS2 as well as the Punch Royal Selections 11 & 12 - Have a load of these in my humidor and often worry what I will enjoy once my stock has depleted. Still am yet to find a substitute for either to be honest. Would appreciate thoughts on alternatives but in all honesty, I doubt one could find something that is ''Exactly" the same...

Diplomatico number 4 is another on the list. I can't find a cigar with a similar profile and I miss it a great deal. Since its departure I have smoked far more Por larranaga Petit Coronas which are fine cigars in their own right, but i still yearn for ready access to Dip 4's.

Agree, still am yet to find a suitable replacement!

HSA works on the premise that once a cigar has been discontinued then the consumer will indeed move to another marque/vitola. They are counting on the fact they will not lose the client.

Are they right?

IMO - HSA are right in thinking this because they know the cigar consumer will not give up enjoying a cigar simply because their favourite has been discontinued. I don't know about other smokers, but I for one have 'Many" cigars I enjoy so removing one or two does not stop me from looking elsewhere for an alternative or to continue purchasing and enjoying the ones still in production.

I'd give my left leg for a few boxes of Punch SS2 by the way...

[Blakes]

I found myself chasing down a lot of discontinued stuff this past year... not because I want 'rare' or 'collectable' cigars but because over the last year or two I have found my preference to be for cigars around the 42rg and under range.

It's not until you start looking for alternatives in current production do you realise how much this area has been decimated/neglected.

It's not really a case of finding alternatives in current production either.. because there really isn't that much left especially for those who's preference is for certain sizes.

If there were alternatives I wouldn't be paying the higher prices discontinued stuff commands.

[Matt Day]

for me its Bolivar Corona Extra as i like Corona and love Bolis so ive bee smoking Boli no 1's although sadly the blend of the No 1 is not as good as the BCE blend, If only the no1 had been deleted and the extra released in a tubo versoin.

Although I think HSA have been right to cut duplicate cigars from lines the rationalisation has gone too far and a better consultation with customers and keeping some cigars on limited production aka made very three years could have been a better result.

[Skyfall]

When HSA discontinues sticks that I love, I just wait for Claus to go out of town traveling for business, and break into his house and do some "Discontinued Grab-Bag Shopping"!

[Duxnutz]

Love the Punch Super Selection No.2. Down to my last dozen and haven't tried recent Punch Punch yet to compare but will give it a go eventually.

Haven't found anything like the Dip 1 or classy Partagas long and skinnies but also enjoying the 898.

Canceling the coronas and shorter/thinner cigars will eventually accelerate the lack of sales for H.S.A, particularly in countries with high taxes on tobacco as its just going to get too expensive to buy a box of fatties.

Could someone please tell me why we can't get more creativity in cigar releases (like in the NC market) ??? How bout a 10 ct box (2 of each brand) of mixed marque Lanceros/Lonsdales/Figurados etc. *

* Duty free petite Robustos/Pyramid boxes noted existed previously BUT MAKE THEM MORE AVAILABLE!

[tmac77]

I agree with you Rob on the Recent Punch Punch I hope that the quality stays in place otherwise we will be searching again. No replacements yet found for LCG Md'O #1, Punch Petit Corona Del Punch, Diplo #4, Boli PC.

[polarbear]

I find myself looking to the NC market when I'm after something under 46rg these days.

Say what you will about the 60rg+ trend but there are some fairly decent NC's out the in the 42rg and under range

Is there a pattern forming on what box codes deliver decent Punch Punch or is it still too early to tell?

[Lotusguy]

I stocked up as much as I could on my discontinued favorites. I'm not even trying to find replacements. There are still some current production vitolas that I enjoy a lot so I won't stop buying altogether. I am, however, very much in stock maintenance mode and only replace what I smoke.

[LGC]

Most of the cigars I like to smoke and own have been chopped. If I'm left with very few options

(after my current stocks are depleted), I will most likely keep a very small inventory of few vitolas, or simply move the funds back to fishing and golf if my interest wanes.

[Ken Gargett]

When Habanos s.a took away my Partagas Serie De Connoisseur No 1/2/3 I was in a quandary. Over the years my personal stocks ran down and I new that in order to preserve the few I had, I needed to find suitable replacements. The Partagas 898 Varnished and Magnum 46 filled the full bodied void, but the size (and experience as a result) cannot be replaced.

When they took away the Punch Super Selection Number 2, I couldn't find a replacement. it has only been the recent Punch Punch of 2013 that lifted my spirits as in many ways it reminds me of a mix of the best Punch SS2 and Punch Royal Seleccion Number 11. I am hording them because experience suggests that the current quality cannot last.

I never found a replacement for the Ramon Allones 898. Similarly the Upmann Super Corona left in 2002 and until the Upmann Royal Robusto LCDH I never found a cigar with a similar flavour profile.

As an aside, given the tremendous sales success of the Upmann Royal Robusto, a re-release of the Upmann Super Corona would surely be a prudent move even if in LCDH guise.

Diplomatico number 4 is another on the list. I can't find a cigar with a similar profile and I miss it a great deal. Since its departure I have smoked far more Por larranaga Petit Coronas which are fine cigars in their own right, but i still yearn for ready access to Dip 4's.

When HSA has discontinued a cigar you loved, have you found yourself moving to a satisfactory alternative? If so I would love to hear your experiences / which ones etc.

HSA works on the premise that once a cigar has been discontinued then the consumer will indeed move to another marque/vitola. They are counting on the fact they will not lose the client.

Are they right?

interesting thread and something i was thinking about the other day (you should change the topic subject as i nearly didn't look, not thinking it was about discontinued cigars).

a few points and i know some of this is being rehashed.

the decision to discontinue. who makes it? on what basis? i could add how pissed are they when they do it but perhaps better not. some brands get slaughtered and others rarely touched. cohiba and m/cristo almost immune. hoyo, partagas, upmann, R&J, punch - seem the cigar version of musical chairs. i know a much smaller range but trev's site suggests that cuaba has only ever had one cigar discontinued. if this was the west, you'd assume the decision makers had shares in the thing.

one would assume that sales would play a reasonable role in the decision. given the boxes of connie 3's we smoked (the perennial house cigar on almost all our trips) in havana alone, you'd have to think we saved the brand. and i've never seen a cab of punch SS2's that was not immediately picked up by one of us.

i don't find myself trying to replace them. just find something else i like. which may be similar or may be entirely different. in a sort of weird way, i am possibly trying to replace the partagas connie 3's with m/cristo especial 1's. but that might be in my own mind. but i really like both. always surprises me the monte especial 1's get so little attention.

i'd be interested in what members thought were the most disastrous, for any reason you like, discontinuations.

for me, punch SS2 and connie 3's. i've one cab of the punch and, thanks to rob's sale of older boxes last week, was able to add a second box of connie 3's. tough knowing that when i crack them, that will be it. no surprise to me if a lot of cigar lovers eventually just say all too hard and give up.

perhaps someone who knows how to do these things could set up a poll?

easter cigars. have any been brought back from the dead? can we ever expect to see punch SS2's roll back the boulder?

finally, bit rich you talking about your stack of punch SS2's given they way you got them! just as well your ex-mate doesn't read this thing. i, however, forgive you as you did put me on to them.

[SerieT]

It was a Sad day for me when they DC most of the Dip line....to this day i have not found a cigar that could fill that void

[Zaphod42]

It was a Sad day for me when they DC most of the Dip line....to this day i have not found a cigar that could fill that void

Same here, nothing else has a similar profile and it's a shame. To avoid running through my remaining Dip 4's I've been going to the RG Petit Corona and the HDM Du Prince.

[PapaDisco]

When they run out, I have no clue what I'll do. Maybe by then, HSA will have been broken up, and the marques will be in the hands of individual companies who will open up the catalogs again.

This would truly be beneficial. The 'central planning' nonsense that assumes any cigar can be made by any roller in any factory by any blender, and still retain the qualities that make it distinctive and unique . . . well, it's just dumb.

[MPS]

Punch SS No. 1 hurt the most to me and can't be replaced. I won't really feel the pain until after I finish my 5 cabs of stock. However as Ken said there are so many other cigars to enjoy not as substitutes but distractions. People stuck in the past are missing some great recent production.

As far as most disastrous it has to be the ERDM & La Gloria Cubana marcas.

[johnhenry]

I was financially not able to stock up on most of my favorites as they vanished ,the H up super corona , Erdm panatella , most of the coronas and lonsdales, the punch ss#2 ,etc. Now when I like something I like I go deep. I bought 7 boxes of PL encantos when I found them on sale this month and will do so because other than the Cohiba line and the your favorite could just vanish at any time.

It doesn't seem to matter how good they are or how much us long time smokers ***** they seem to see the need to make limited or large Rg cigars,save the plpc . If you like ,stock up!

[johnhenry]

Cohiba line and the robusto size.^^^

[Bolismoker]

For me the Boli CE, crushed me when it vanished. There is n replacing this smoke so I buy them when I find them. Other honorable mentions: RA 898, RA corona, Boli Lonsdale, Boli Imensia, RS12, Boli corona, Just writting them down makes me sad, like so many good friends gone but not forgotten.

[drockspang1]

^^^ Ken touched on it a bit, and I've always been curious. Who does really make these decisions? Does anyone know? I mean we know "cuba is cuba", right? And sometimes there isn't any logical explanation when it comes to cigars out of cuba. But you would still assume that HSA & Cubatabaco(and really the Cuban Govt) would want to make as much money as possible off their cigar export, right? So why would they repeatedly discontinue cigars that appear to have been popular, and thus a solid seller? I'm no expert by any means, and most of these sticks were already gone before I started to get back into cigars(2011) and before that I was an off & on casual 1-2 stick/mo. And the CC's I smoked in those days were all procured thru my brother, and I would just buy in on what he had. So I guess I don't know what I missed. I have a few regular production 'favs' right now, and feel fortunate that the last couple years has generally been good for CC. Having said that, in a few years, will the staples in my collection be axed? It's taken me a couple years and some decent scratch, to hone in on what I like and what are good 'daily' sticks for me. That changes too as my tastes change. But some are hardcore staples for me; HU Connie #1, HUPC, QdO Coronas, PLPC & Hdm Epi 2. I still try new stuff all the time, and am actually amazed at how many marcas & vitolas under each marca, are available even today. It's unfortunate though that I'll probably never smoke some of these mentioned. One of my favorite vitolas is a corona too...which for some reason, seems to be disappearing.

For those members who have been around, they seem to agree that most of these were great cigars that had a decent, loyal following. There HAS to be a reason... ?(right?)

If HSA was smart, they'd bring a few of these vitolas back as EL's, dress 'em up with fancy boxes & the extra bands... then charge a premium. Maybe that's been the plan all along? But it seems some of these have been discontinued for awhile, and would've resurfaced by now? I really don't understand why the cigar industry as a whole, and now it seems cuba has followed suit, leaning toward larger rg cigars. Maybe it's just a fad? I don't mind the occasional 52 or even 54 rg, but I rarely have time to smoke one unless it's a shorter length. And I feel about half goofy holding it. I don't know how to explain it?...I have just recently purchased some thinner rg sticks, Hdm Du Gourmet, HdM Des Dieux & PLMC. I have really been enjoying these. I'm on my 3rd box of PLMC & just received my 1st box of the Du Gourmet last week. I've probably smoked 4 or 5 already. What an awesome smoke & at a great price point too. So I can only imagine and be left to wonder how good some of these were. But like someone already said... no reason to live in the past. But it'd sure be nice if some of these came back around!

[Smallclub]

So why would they repeatedly discontinue cigars that appear to have been popular, and thus a solid seller?

Solid seller? The most famous (on cigar forums) discontinued cigars were extremely slow sellers, even in cities like Paris or Geneva...

[Bartolomeo]

I got into cigars in Aug 2009.....took me a while to learn what I liked, by the time I found out on many cigars I enjoyed they were already discontinued....there are plenty of regular production cigars to keep me happy today but I still chase discontinued smokes when I can such as going deep on Dip 4 and 5

Bart

[Blakes]

Strangely enough a mate brought out 2 Luci's for us to smoke today, mine was just like any other flavour wise but his tasted almost dead on to the box of SdC2 I've been smoking out of lately, maybe not as refined due to the rg difference but close enough. Saying that, I've never had one taste like that before so probably just a one off but it did surprise me.