Forced Cigar Substitutions .........

[drockspang1]

So why would they repeatedly discontinue cigars that appear to have been popular, and thus a solid seller? I'm no expert by any means, and most of these sticks were already gone before I started to get back into cigars(2011)...

For those members who have been around, they seem to agree that most of these were great cigars that had a decent, loyal following. There HAS to be a reason... ?(right?)

Solid seller? The most famous (on cigar forums) discontinued cigars were extremely slow sellers, even in cities like Paris or Geneva...

Didn't say that I knew this to be fact... was asking basically. A "solid seller" might have been a little strong, but it certainly appears that they were popular amongst experienced cigar smokers. Or as you put it, BOTL's on the boards. But you'd think that that would also lead to "some" kind of sales increase in general, no? Also, if sales is the only driving force behind the decision to discontinue a vitola, or even a marca... I have one word: Cuaba.

I mean according to: http://www.cubancigarwebsite.com/info-brands.aspx if sales were the only factor, our beloved Ramon Allones & Punch lines would be gone. Also, Fonseca, SLR, JL & Vegas Robaina... can't account for much of the total % of HSA annual sales.

And here's what I don't get. I've never read one post(at least one that I can recall) about a member of a forum, nor I have seen a guy at a B&M smoke/or talk about Cuaba. I don't pretend to know what sales are like for the Cuaba marca, but do you think they sell better then Bolivar, Punch, RA or even LGC or Por Larranaga? I don't. I could be wrong? Maybe Cuaba is huge in South America? Who knows? But right now, Cuaba has 6 current regular production vitolas. Punch has 5, PL has 4 & LGC has 2.

And it seems to me that the majority of the vitolas discontinued since '02, have been smaller rg cigars? Now I haven't sat down and actually calculated it, but that's what it seems to be. Cigars under 46 rg have gone by the wayside?

It's a good topic.

[Smallclub]

And here's what I don't get. I've never read one post(at least one that I can recall) about a member of a forum, nor I have seen a guy at a B&M smoke/or talk about Cuaba.

err….. a B&M where? In France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, the Divinos are available from almost every cigar shop.

[Habana Mike]

Punch SS No. 1 hurt the most to me and can't be replaced. I won't really feel the pain until after I finish my 5 cabs of stock. However as Ken said there are so many other cigars to enjoy not as substitutes but distractions. People stuck in the past are missing some great recent production.

As far as most disastrous it has to be the ERDM & La Gloria Cubana marcas.

Punch got hit pretty hard too.....only 5 still in production out of 48!

[drockspang1]

err….. a B&M where? In France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, the Divinos are available from almost every cigar shop.

So, how many Cuaba's do you smoke a week, month or year? And how about the people you know? How many foh members?

'Smallclub', you seem to be misunderstanding my post(s). I was really asking (rhetorically) what the reasons are? Or better yet, I was "speculating". I never said I knew. I unfortunately can't walk down to my local B&M and ask them what sells & what doesn't. But you could. And to your point about "Divinos being available in every cigar shop". What does that mean? Because something is available, it must be a great seller? By that reasoning, couldn't I argue back to you my point about the discontinued cigars? See what I'm getting at? Truth is, neither of us know what drives HSA to discontinue vitolas. But I'll say this for 100% certainty. You can keep your Divinos, and the whole damn Cuaba line...

... Me, I'll take the rest: Punch, Boli, RA, QdO, PL, SLR, ERDM, SCDLH.......... well, you get the point!

[headstand]

easter cigars. have any been brought back from the dead? can we ever expect to see punch SS2's roll back the boulder?

A liturgical cigar, what a great idea to complement the RE and LE. Something new for Christmas, and something resurrected for Easter. I am right there with you on the Punch SS2.

You are a brilliant man Ken!

[Duxnutz]

Call it the 'Habanos Heritage line'. Bring back one (or more) extinct cigars per year!

[Ken Gargett]

A liturgical cigar, what a great idea to complement the RE and LE. Something new for Christmas, and something resurrected for Easter. I am right there with you on the Punch SS2.

You are a brilliant man Ken!

i'd happily make the sacrifice and smoke them.

[polarbear]

So, how many Cuaba's do you smoke a week, month or year? And how about the people you know? How many foh members?

'Smallclub', you seem to be misunderstanding my post(s). I was really asking (rhetorically) what the reasons are? Or better yet, I was "speculating". I never said I knew. I unfortunately can't walk down to my local B&M and ask them what sells & what doesn't. But you could. And to your point about "Divinos being available in every cigar shop". What does that mean? Because something is available, it must be a great seller? By that reasoning, couldn't I argue back to you my point about the discontinued cigars? See what I'm getting at? Truth is, neither of us know what drives HSA to discontinue vitolas. But I'll say this for 100% certainty. You can keep your Divinos, and the whole damn Cuaba line...

... Me, I'll take the rest: Punch, Boli, RA, QdO, PL, SLR, ERDM, SCDLH.......... well, you get the point!

I dont mind the odd Cuaba

Not the most complex of sticks, but a nice solid performer if you just want to smoke somthing

As for discussions about Cuaba as please see belwo

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=118162&hl=cuaba

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117398&hl=cuaba

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117397&hl=cuaba

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=115969&hl=cuaba

I think one of the things that keeps Cuaba afloat is I've been told by a couple of different sources that Cuaba tends to do well in the spanish market.

Also, I once had a conversation with an Australian retailer about Cuaba and he told me he tends to sell a lot of the small-medium size smokes in the line thanks to non cigar smokers coming in off the streets and wanting to buy a cigar for some special occation.

Due to the odd shape of the sticks in the line, most novice smokers are drawn to it because they find it interesting and the perfecto shape reminds them of the cigars we used to see smoked on the Saturday Morning Cartoons.

Dont know if an entire marca is being kept alive thanks to Novice smokers and the Spanish, but its an interesting point.

As to why brands like Ramon Allones, Punch, PL and LGC have been boned out, consider this:

Go and find a casual cigar smoker who has no B&M to walk into, Forum to converse on or menor to educate him about cigars. Then ask him to name 5 Cuban Marcas and see what he says.

Cohiba- Duh

Montecristo- Most Def

RyJ- Probably

Partagas- I'd say so

HDM- Maybe

Internet cigar people make up such a small percentage of the overall cigar market that its easy to think that just because the 2500 members of this forum love Ramon Allones, that doesnt mean the rest of the consumers who just smoke cigars (rather than talk about them) even know the marca exisits.

[polarbear]

So, how many Cuaba's do you smoke a week, month or year? And how about the people you know? How many foh members?

'Smallclub', you seem to be misunderstanding my post(s). I was really asking (rhetorically) what the reasons are? Or better yet, I was "speculating". I never said I knew. I unfortunately can't walk down to my local B&M and ask them what sells & what doesn't. But you could. And to your point about "Divinos being available in every cigar shop". What does that mean? Because something is available, it must be a great seller? By that reasoning, couldn't I argue back to you my point about the discontinued cigars? See what I'm getting at? Truth is, neither of us know what drives HSA to discontinue vitolas. But I'll say this for 100% certainty. You can keep your Divinos, and the whole damn Cuaba line...

... Me, I'll take the rest: Punch, Boli, RA, QdO, PL, SLR, ERDM, SCDLH.......... well, you get the point!

I dont mind the odd Cuaba

Not the most complex of sticks, but a nice solid performer if you just want to smoke somthing

As for discussions about Cuaba as please see belwo

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=118162&hl=cuaba

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117398&hl=cuaba

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=117397&hl=cuaba

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=115969&hl=cuaba

I think one of the things that keeps Cuaba afloat is I've been told by a couple of different sources that Cuaba tends to do well in the spanish market.

Also, I once had a conversation with an Australian retailer about Cuaba and he told me he tends to sell a lot of the small-medium size smokes in the line thanks to non cigar smokers coming in off the streets and wanting to buy a cigar for some special occation.

Due to the odd shape of the sticks in the line, most novice smokers are drawn to it because they find it interesting and the perfecto shape reminds them of the cigars we used to see smoked on the Saturday Morning Cartoons.

Dont know if an entire marca is being kept alive thanks to Novice smokers and the Spanish, but its an interesting point.

As to why brands like Ramon Allones, Punch, PL and LGC have been boned out, consider this:

Go and find a casual cigar smoker who has no B&M to walk into, Forum to converse on or menor to educate him about cigars. Then ask him to name 5 Cuban Marcas and see what he says.

Cohiba- Duh

Montecristo- Most Def

RyJ- Probably

Partagas- I'd say so

HDM- Maybe

Internet cigar people make up such a small percentage of the overall cigar market that its easy to think that just because the 2500 members of this forum love Ramon Allones, that doesnt mean the rest of the consumers who just smoke cigars (rather than talk about them) even know the marca exisits.

[Smallclub]

'Smallclub', you seem to be misunderstanding my post(s).

I simply insist that your point of view is limited to cigar forums, which do not reflect the reality of the trade. You write about what sells and what doesn't, based on what's discussed here and on US forums. How many hours have you spent in a cigar shop in Europe? You'd be surprised!

[Bill Hayes]

Haven't found anything close to a connie 3. As a result, I don't smoke as many cigars. And I'm almost out of the aged connie 2's.

[Ken Gargett]

I simply insist that your point of view is limited to cigar forums, which do not reflect the reality of the trade. You write about what sells and what doesn't, based on what's discussed here and on US forums. How many hours have you spent in a cigar shop in Europe? You'd be surprised!

i think the posts suggesting that the interest in sites like this doesn't necessarily translate or rather, equate, to international sales are accurate. i guess that while we may love it, the world may not follow.