So what does plain packaging look like?

[poisonowns]

Personally I'm not concerned about fakes. I trust my sources. If I were to rely on packaging to ensure authenticity I feel like I'm screwed, bands or no bands.

[oliverdst]

The box inside a box is a good option.

[Fuzz]

From what I've read, the box within the box will still be plain packaged according to the regulations in Aus, Basically, you cannot have any artwork inside or outside that doesn't conform to the plain packaging regulations. Further to this, you cannot sell any sleeves or covers with the cigar box (giving away sleevs or covers is a different story). The plain packaging must be securely fastened to the box to cover any existing artwork and cannot be easily removed (ie cannot peel off without residue or leave intact the pre-existing artwork).

[oliverdst]

Man, this is dictatorship!

[thecrowder]

If I'm HSA, I'm celebrating plain packaging! You've just effectively removed a supply chain problem and have lowered my costs and I can keep my product prices the same--although, I'll probably increase them anyway. On top of all of that, I'm going to start a second business that sells cigar bands and empty boxes to the same consumers who have bought the plain package version. Sounds like a win win to me if I'm HSA.

[CigKopf]

Hm, this is an interesting issue/PROBLEM. Just a few ideas that I have come up with...

I believe someone said that the box has to arrive at the retailer in plain packaging, but does it have to arrive at the consumer in plain packaging? Does it have to leave the retailer that way (even if shipping to another country)? If so, then I am about to do a lot of typing for nothing...

If not, one idea is to create one set of crap boxes that are continuously sent back and forth between the retailer and distributor. The distributor can send the retailer a master case containing the cigars in the crap boxes, and a second package with nothing but empty, nice looking, boxes. When Rob is going through a master case to determine HQ, PSP, etc, he can take the smokes out of the plain box and place them in their respective nice looking box. Then send the nice looking box of smokes to the buyer (probably can't do this for B&M sales, only shipping). Then send the plain box back to the distributor to be reused again and again. Essentially not really increasing the cost of production in the long run. If this is impossible, then send the consumer the crap box of cigars, and another package containing an empty nice box. The consumer can take the cigars out of the crap box and place them inside the nice box. The consumer may have to pay extra for the nice box (which may price Australia out of the market). Just an idea.

Another variation of this idea is to do like Trevor advised, and all boxes will be sold in slide lid boxes. But, when the distributor sends all the crap boxes to the retailer, they also send another package that contains nothing but lids. When Rob gets the boxes, he can just slide the crap lid off, and slide the real lid on each box. Again, send the crap lid back, so you aren't having to create two lids for each box. Underneath the nice lid will be the box code and date. The rest of the box can be plain, and only the lid will be the thing that differentiates each box of smokes. Another variation is to do what someone else mentioned and just send a lid with the plain crap box. The consumer can slide the crap lid off, and slide the good looking lid on.

Does each side of the box have to be plain? If not, then the lid and sides can be "two sided." One side is plain packaged, and the other side looks nice. Then the seller or the consumer can just flip the lid over. May not work for other reasons, like paint being wet...(not mentioning names here).

Another idea is to just not obey the law for customers that you know. Maybe the first few orders are sent in crap packaging. Once the relationship is established, and the consumer is determined to not be a snitch *******, the retailer sends regular boxes.

Also, can the cigar be placed inside cellophane without a band? Instead of having bands, the cigars can be placed inside of cellophane that has the vitola/marca info on it, so we can still differentiate each smoke when they are in the humi as a single. If not, then no band. Maybe just a gold ribbon going around each box of cigars with the info. If a gold ribbon isn't allowed, then FML!

[polarbear]

The use behind "plain packaging" is not to make plain looking, it's to make it unappealing to look at.

Essentially, think of the ugliest, most unappealing packaging possible. You have what the government would prefer all tobacco products to look like.

The idea is for people to look at a box of cigars and say "that's F'ing discussing! No way I'm walking around with that", not to make people go "yep, that's a box of cigars".

There is no compromise to be had. No middle ground to be found. This is the way things have to be if people wish to sell tobacco products in Australia. Our government has made it quite clear that have no interest in making people who enjoy tobacco happy or at least satisfied with the scheme.

Cancerous tongues, gangrenous feet, rotten gums are what we will get to look at in the future and if the government can think of something else more horrifying to put on these boxes you can bet they will.

[tippexx]

The issue here is Plain Packaging, Stay on topic.

You have a half dozen Asian Countries who are also likely to follow suit within 3 years so it is not a left/Right, Euro/US issue.

And the very nature of Government committees means they will involve themselves with how the plain packaging should appear, and no doubt all will be different. The proposed designs for UK plain tobacco packs are hardly plain and feature a nasty green base colour and two thirds of the front decorated with horror images of affliction and death.

For cigars, card sleeves for regular boxes would seem the logical idea, but that goes out of the window for picking box display in B&Ms. Which really only leaves unidentified plain cedar boxes with huge death stickers containing un-banded cigars and the hope that the shop owner knows what's what.

It's gonna be a tough one.

[CaptainQuintero]

Hmmm as far as I know, there are now laws concerning selling empty cigar boxes for collecting/hobby purposes right? If they are sold as for collecting purposes not for storing/transporting/holding cigars.

Cuba could package unbanded cigars in cello, protective plain green card boxes covered in death stickers and meet all PP laws.

Would there be anything stopping them separately supplying distributors with empty boxes with current designs? Retailers could sell those separately as art/historical containers/ collector items without any stickers etc if they never have and are not officially going to be used to store tobacco inside?

If a customer decides to take his cigars out if the plain packaging and put them into his new art piece at home, that's his own choice.

Legal highs are sold here as they are marketed and packaged as plant fertiliser/novelty value and not for human consumption. If someone decides to consume them, that's their problem not the manufactures or retailers.

Sell cigar boxes/SLB as empty novelty items with a disclaimer on the bottom saying 'this is a novelty item/collectors piece and not for use of storing any tobacco products'

[Fuzz]

Hm, this is an interesting issue/PROBLEM. Just a few ideas that I have come up with...

I believe someone said that the box has to arrive at the retailer in plain packaging, but does it have to arrive at the consumer in plain packaging? Does it have to leave the retailer that way (even if shipping to another country)? If so, then I am about to do a lot of typing for nothing...

If not, one idea is to create one set of crap boxes that are continuously sent back and forth between the retailer and distributor. The distributor can send the retailer a master case containing the cigars in the crap boxes, and a second package with nothing but empty, nice looking, boxes. When Rob is going through a master case to determine HQ, PSP, etc, he can take the smokes out of the plain box and place them in their respective nice looking box. Then send the nice looking box of smokes to the buyer (probably can't do this for B&M sales, only shipping). Then send the plain box back to the distributor to be reused again and again. Essentially not really increasing the cost of production in the long run. If this is impossible, then send the consumer the crap box of cigars, and another package containing an empty nice box. The consumer can take the cigars out of the crap box and place them inside the nice box. The consumer may have to pay extra for the nice box (which may price Australia out of the market). Just an idea.

Another variation of this idea is to do like Trevor advised, and all boxes will be sold in slide lid boxes. But, when the distributor sends all the crap boxes to the retailer, they also send another package that contains nothing but lids. When Rob gets the boxes, he can just slide the crap lid off, and slide the real lid on each box. Again, send the crap lid back, so you aren't having to create two lids for each box. Underneath the nice lid will be the box code and date. The rest of the box can be plain, and only the lid will be the thing that differentiates each box of smokes. Another variation is to do what someone else mentioned and just send a lid with the plain crap box. The consumer can slide the crap lid off, and slide the good looking lid on.

Does each side of the box have to be plain? If not, then the lid and sides can be "two sided." One side is plain packaged, and the other side looks nice. Then the seller or the consumer can just flip the lid over. May not work for other reasons, like paint being wet...(not mentioning names here).

Another idea is to just not obey the law for customers that you know. Maybe the first few orders are sent in crap packaging. Once the relationship is established, and the consumer is determined to not be a snitch *******, the retailer sends regular boxes.

Also, can the cigar be placed inside cellophane without a band? Instead of having bands, the cigars can be placed inside of cellophane that has the vitola/marca info on it, so we can still differentiate each smoke when they are in the humi as a single. If not, then no band. Maybe just a gold ribbon going around each box of cigars with the info. If a gold ribbon isn't allowed, then FML!

Hate to tell ya, but you did type that for nothing! Regulations state the retail package (ie what you get) must be plain pacckaged. Sending non plain package cigars is against regulations. Further to this, the interior of the box must either be plain white or the colour of the packing material in its natural state) . There can be no inserts or onserts depicting artwork. Any inserts used to protect the cigars must also conform to the white or natural colouring regulation.

[tippexx]

Just had a horrible thought. Some do-gooder is going to suss cigars can be sold as singles .... and want Death Bands on those too!

[Phillys]

Cardboard boxes... no thanks, as many have said, slb's with Marca and Vittola burned in, no bands. Then stick all the death stickers on that. Way better cardboard, I for one would not age for 10+ years in those boxes.

[Paul3]

If I'm HSA, I'm celebrating plain packaging! You've just effectively removed a supply chain problem and have lowered my costs and I can keep my product prices the same--although, I'll probably increase them anyway. On top of all of that, I'm going to start a second business that sells cigar bands and empty boxes to the same consumers who have bought the plain package version. Sounds like a win win to me if I'm HSA.

I agree with you in part. However, this model does not take into account the likely increase in counterfeiting and resulting losses to HSA. Bands, boxes are both used in determining authenticity and removing these elements would, IMHO, offer counterfeiters greater opportunity to dupe us all.

Cheers

[rsanz]

I agree with you in part. However, this model does not take into account the likely increase in counterfeiting and resulting losses to HSA. Bands, boxes are both used in determining authenticity and removing these elements would, IMHO, offer counterfeiters greater opportunity to dupe us all.

Cheers

Although I disagree with and hate the look of plain packaging I actually think that it could almost eliminate counterfeiting if applied globally. why bother trying to counterfeit something that looks exactly like everything else? It's really only those lovely Cohiba etc bands and special glass top boxings that attract people to the counterfeiters. There would be nothing to actually copy.

The obvious downside is that... there would be nothing to actually copy. Anything could be sold as a fake cuban so long as it didn't have a band. But who would buy a fake Cohiba if there wasn't a band on it to show their friends? They could fake that themselves by removing the band from whatever they had lying around and talking really convincingly about how great their genuine Cuban tastes...

If plain packaging becomes worldwide, I think HSA etc should delete the bands, use plain SLB boxes, perhaps include a compliant printed card with a description inside and have a cardboard outer for the national drab colour and bright warnings of choice.

I'm guessing watermarking or laser engraving brand name son the actual wrapper would fall foul of the laws... but it would look cool.

[Philprop]

The use behind "plain packaging" is not to make plain looking, it's to make it unappealing to look at.

Essentially, think of the ugliest, most unappealing packaging possible. You have what the government would prefer all tobacco products to look like.

The idea is for people to look at a box of cigars and say "that's F'ing discussing! No way I'm walking around with that", not to make people go "yep, that's a box of cigars".

There is no compromise to be had. No middle ground to be found. This is the way things have to be if people wish to sell tobacco products in Australia. Our government has made it quite clear that have no interest in making people who enjoy tobacco happy or at least satisfied with the scheme.

Cancerous tongues, gangrenous feet, rotten gums are what we will get to look at in the future and if the government can think of something else more horrifying to put on these boxes you can bet they will.

This is exactly the point and the problem with all of this. They say they do not people(more specifically younger people) to be attracted to the packaging and therefore start smoking. But in reality they're making you be disgusted by the packaging so you do not buy. If the real intention was to just make them less attractive authentic the packaging would be plain white box with the words "25 montecristo #4" in black letters on top.

I have a huge problem with things like this and I hate it, but there is a huge need and de sire to protect people by governments. Which is fine in some regards, but when it comes to things like this where I should know whether or not this will hurt me, they should stay out of it. Harsh to say but I fell we almost need to go back to a "survival of the fittest" way of life. I mean, all the info is out there that smoking is bad, I know this, so if I choose to do it Then I deserve it if I get sick from it. Here in Newfoundland there is a law against not wearing a seatbelt while driving. So if I'm driving my vehicle and do not wear my seatbelt, I get a ticket. Why? I am well aware that if involved in a accident and not wearing my seatbelt and I can get seriously hurt or die.so why waste police man power to ticket me when only I would be getting hurt for not wearing a seatbelt. If I'm dumb enough to not wear my seatbelt then I deserve it if I get in a accident. ( that being said a seatbelt saved my life once and I NEVER drive without I on) but you get my point.

So anyway, leave the damn tobacco boxes alone, especially my cigar boxes! If anything just use REAL plain packaging and go with SLBs with just words saying what is contained inside.

[DrunkenMonkey]

But who would buy a fake Cohiba if there wasn't a band on it to show their friends?

Did they have any problems selling the cabinets of cigars that, up until just a few years ago, sold without bands? I'm pretty sure people still bought them. Was there a bigger concern about fake Punch, HdM, etc. cigars in cabs than with other cigars that were sold with bands?

I would love it if they went back to selling cabinet boxes of cigars with no bands on them.

[Paul3]

Although I disagree with and hate the look of plain packaging I actually think that it could almost eliminate counterfeiting if applied globally. why bother trying to counterfeit something that looks exactly like everything else? It's really only those lovely Cohiba etc bands and special glass top boxings that attract people to the counterfeiters. There would be nothing to actually copy.

I believe I see your point, but let me counter if I may. One reason counterfeiting cc's is successful is precisely because of the attempt/near ability to make fake (insert brand here) look exactly like the real thing, or at least close enough to it that the uninitiated are fooled by the overall appearance (i.e. cigar, band, box). Though I would agree that nothing says "look at me" like a nice glass top box of barber pole 2015 RE Cohiba Reserva 8-9-8 Double Edmundo's I hesitate to say that is really the only reason behind the attraction to counterfeits. The initial lure maybe, but in the end I would attribute it more to the "novelty" of purchasing the forbidden fruit...at least for us here in the U.S.

I'm guessing watermarking or laser engraving brand name son the actual wrapper would fall foul of the laws... but it would look cool.

Now THAT would look cool. Wonder if that would leave the cigar tasting like a relight though.

[liger930]

Yikes. I will have to agree with the comments above about blank sleeves and outter wrappings containing the original boxes inside.

Personally, the various arrangements of box art, sizes, and materials serve a certain aesthetic appeal for me.

[StingMeadery]

Each Marcas need to implement something like a unique high tech chip that can be individually coded and numbered for release dates and vitola type and embedded in the unmarked and unbanded cedar box.

These would be ideally mass produced ...unable to be reproduced and easily scanned for validity...and cheap

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blakes]

If they do go band less, (which I would prefer) for those concerned with counterfeits how about the ribbon incorporating some sort of artwork/security hologram/water mark/code of authenticity? They could also change it periodically to stop people collecting the old ones to reuse on fakes.

Maybe even a fabric version of the seal you see on the outside of the box as the ribbon or part of it?

[tippexx]

If they do go band less, (which I would prefer) for those concerned with counterfeits how about the ribbon incorporating some sort of artwork/security hologram/water mark/code of authenticity? They could also change it periodically to stop people collecting the old ones to reuse on fakes.

Maybe even a fabric version of the seal you see on the outside of the box as the ribbon or part of it?

The Warranty seal mentions 'cigars' and 'cut tobacco' several times in different languages. I'm not confident that the seal as it is will be allowed .... and the little leaf graphic on the Habanos strip might have to go to?

[Habanos2000]

I propose that Habanos say, no, we're not going to comply with your plain packaging laws. We're producing a legal product and won't let people outside of our business dictate how our product is to be packaged. You don't like it, it's your problem not ours.

A gov't ban would not stop the true cigar lover from purchasing and smoking cigars. Sure, some will find an alternative, but let the governments ban legal sales and open the flood doors to off coast distribution and under the table transactions, all without the benefit of sales tax revenue which is ultimately the only thing government really cares about anyway, and we'll see what happens.

Look at the ban of Cuban cigars in the US. Has that stopped Cuban cigar loving US citizens from purchasing what they want? Personally I think the ban actually benefits me.

I'm 50 years old and sick and tired of government telling me what is and isn't good for me.

[Paul3]

I'm 50 years old and sick and tired of government telling me what is and isn't good for me.

You and me both brother.

[Blakes]

The Warranty seal mentions 'cigars' and 'cut tobacco' several times in different languages. I'm not confident that the seal as it is will be allowed .... and the little leaf graphic on the Habanos strip might have to go to?

What I was meaning was like the ribbons they use now but with some sort of extra hologram/mark etc incorporated on them so they do the job of authenticating the cigars like the seals do now.. but like you say they'd have to comply with all the regulations.

[Pixa]

I propose that Habanos say, no, we're not going to comply with your plain packaging laws. We're producing a legal product and won't let people outside of our business dictate how our product is to be packaged. You don't like it, it's your problem not ours.

A gov't ban would not stop the true cigar lover from purchasing and smoking cigars. Sure, some will find an alternative, but let the governments ban legal sales and open the flood doors to off coast distribution and under the table transactions, all without the benefit of sales tax revenue which is ultimately the only thing government really cares about anyway, and we'll see what happens.

Look at the ban of Cuban cigars in the US. Has that stopped Cuban cigar loving US citizens from purchasing what they want? Personally I think the ban actually benefits me.

I'm 50 years old and sick and tired of government telling me what is and isn't good for me.

I thought was what they done and that's why the Australian distributer is having to apply bands over the originals. I think they should supply the boxes with the warnings plastered all over but with a peel off section for box code and a separate pack with all the original stickers so you can stick them over the top.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk