Webbo Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Bit of a schoolboy question. I keep reading about cigars being in their sick period. What exactly is this and why does it occur? Presumably these periods differ between different marca. Are there any rules of thumb as to when, say 6-12 months etc or could it be anytime and it's a case of try one and see?
Smallclub Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=105370&hl=sick http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=104134&hl=sick http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=116702&hl=%2Bsick+%2Bperiod http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=116415&hl=%2Bsick+%2Bperiod#entry434109
Nino Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Beg to differ - they also have tasty periods ... .......... like today : http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=118196&hl= sorry Webbo, just foolin' around, now back to regular programming .... 2
CaptainQuintero Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 There was a definite sick period when cigars came fresh off the boat reeking of ammonia and being unsmokable. Nowadays it's more a reference to how a box of cigars progresses during being aged. Eg during year one there may be lots of 'youth' in the second half/final third which can give a cigar a hot/dirty taste Also some cigars make just take a nosedive in enjoyment due to the box going through a certain period of aging where oils/humidity/temp etc just result in a nasty tasting cigar so a box is usually left for a year for it to settle down/those elements to change and hopefully result in a better smoking experience. But due to boxes potentially having 25 cigars being rolled by 25 different rollers, the cigar you smoke which makes you think 'this box needs a sleep' might have always been destined to taste crap regardless of age, while after pulling the box out if a year long sleep and lighting up 24 perfect cigars, they might have tasted perfect from day one! Just another fable of cigar smoking, some truths and some good intentions, some horse clackers. Generally though if you've sampled 3 or 4 cigars from a box and they have all tasted young/unbalanced/harsh it's fair to assume that more from that box need more time to rest so a year or more of sleep can help a lot. Youth usually goes (especially in recent production) within a year or two but it's not a science...well it is but it's a science that is hard to find a control to start experiments with!
JHands Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 That's the beauty of a handmade product though - some can be stellar and some can be trash, regardless of age. We all a very well aware of the gamble we take when we buy a box. Even if rob classifies psp , that doesn't mean that the blend is spot on inside the cigar. Have had beautiful cigars that taste terrible and have had cigars that have shoddy wrappers that taste great. Same can go with sick periods and aging etc. every cigar is different, even from the same box. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PigFish Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Another bunch of BS supplied by the cigar guru community! It explains why the 100 point (their rating) cigar tastes like a dog rocket once you buy a box from the collector! You see the cigar is never bad in the collector world. If it were you would never get a chance to gouge people big time for it after you have stored it for a bunch of years! It just experiences 'vacuum periods.' If you smoke one and it is bad, well, you smoked it at the wrong time!!! It is your fault! With vacuum periods, everyone is satisfied with their cigars! It is never the cigars fault, it is just your fault because you are not in tune with their yin and yang! Horse pucky!!! One day the box is over the hill, the next day they are bliss… There are poorly made cigars. There are poorly fermented cigars. There are poorly stored cigars… etc, etc, etc… Some cigars just came off the rollers table as garbage and you don't know until you smoke it. I must say, if you really want to hear an idea that makes you poorer and the other guy richer just ask a politician or a cigar collector. -the Pig Cheers! 4
Maplepie Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 i've heard of cigars 3+ years tasting like they're "greening" when you light them up RIGHT after being shipped. many factors can cause this "greening" as well, keep that in mind too.
Jimmy2 Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Another bunch of BS supplied by the cigar guru community! It explains why the 100 point (their rating) cigar tastes like a dog rocket once you buy a box from the collector! You see the cigar is never bad in the collector world. If it were you would never get a chance to gouge people big time for it after you have stored it for a bunch of years! It just experiences 'vacuum periods.' If you smoke one and it is bad, well, you smoked it at the wrong time!!! It is your fault! With vacuum periods, everyone is satisfied with their cigars! It is never the cigars fault, it is just your fault because you are not in tune with their yin and yang! Horse pucky!!! One day the box is over the hill, the next day they are bliss There are poorly made cigars. There are poorly fermented cigars. There are poorly stored cigars etc, etc, etc Some cigars just came off the rollers table as garbage and you don't know until you smoke it. I must say, if you really want to hear an idea that makes you poorer and the other guy richer just ask a politician or a cigar collector. -the Pig Cheers! PigFish these so called Cigar Guru's are a joke ! The funny thing is most of them have a palate of a horses a$$ . It's a cigar not rocket science ..... 1
fookite Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 I'm with Pig and Jimmy on this one. I smoked half a box of El Principe and they were uniformly great and then put the box away for a few months. When I pulled it out, I smoked another one that was just bland and figured "oh, maybe this is a sick (or dull) period." The next day I smoked another one, same result. The day after that, I said "screw it, I'm trying another one" and it was just as good as the first half of the box. The next day, same thing. If I didn't smoke those last two cigars, I would have put this down as a box hitting a sick period and felt entirely justified doing it. It turns out, there were (at least) two crappy cigars in that box. I think if you take all of these little bits of "traditional cigar wisdom," you can combine them in enough ways to convince yourself of basically anything under the sun. This is the same kind of thinking that leads to curing illness by draining a few pints of blood out of your body. 3
PapaDisco Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 My unscientific experience is that 5 year old boxes tend to have a higher hit ratio than brand new boxes. That's just an impression though. Not sure how one could quantitatively test this notion. I suppose with a big enough sample size one could ignore the marca altogether and just see if a group of blind tasters found more bitter sticks in new boxes or old?
liuzzi Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 I've never understood the sick period myself, I've smoked cigars couple of months old which have been amazing. I've also noticed some cigars benefit from aging more than the others but these cigars have all been good to start with. I might not have too much experience but I've never seen a bad box of cigars turn great with time. I have seen good cigars turn bland with time couple of times though. 1
Dbone Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 All to often I hear a cigar smoked poorly because it's sick, or not aged enough to enjoy, etc... Yeah, maybe but how about it was just rolled with crappy leaf or rolled incorrectly? Rob & Kenny will in their reviews. Not 100% of tobacco harvested and fermented will produce expected flavors. Can we deal with the realization that our prized and often cherished box of cigars probably contain one or a few shitty cigars?
PigFish Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 I'm with Pig and Jimmy on this one. I smoked half a box of El Principe and they were uniformly great and then put the box away for a few months. When I pulled it out, I smoked another one that was just bland and figured "oh, maybe this is a sick (or dull) period." The next day I smoked another one, same result. The day after that, I said "screw it, I'm trying another one" and it was just as good as the first half of the box. The next day, same thing. If I didn't smoke those last two cigars, I would have put this down as a box hitting a sick period and felt entirely justified doing it. It turns out, there were (at least) two crappy cigars in that box. I think if you take all of these little bits of "traditional cigar wisdom," you can combine them in enough ways to convince yourself of basically anything under the sun. This is the same kind of thinking that leads to curing illness by draining a few pints of blood out of your body. I have told many a newer smoker… if you want a chance to dispel almost every myth about smoking and sick periods do exactly this. Get a box of cigars that are properly acclimated to your smoking tastes. Nothing ruins the taste of a cigar more than having too much water in them (MHO). Smoke the hole damn box… Don't go fishing for cigars just keep going back to the same box. You will find some good cigars and likely some bad. You will notice that they go from sick to well to sick again in a matter of days!!! -LOL It just depends on what is in the box. Sick periods are the imaginary manifestations of 'hope and change.' The good cigars in the box will be good and the bad ones bad. They are not going to switch roles based on waiting them out. The belief in sick periods is like the wishful aspirations of buying the winning lotto ticket. It might be fun to think that tomorrow you will be a millionaire and all your cigars will be 'healed,' but for most of us, in reality, it is nothing more than a head game! Now, I'm off to buy a lotto ticket! -Piggy 3
Smallclub Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 I haven't had a "sick" cigar (with ammonia, acidity, etc. that makes it an unsmokable cigar) for more than 5 years, and I smoke everyday. Why we have a thread about this every two weeks on this forum is a mystery to me; perhaps it's due to the recent availability of fresh rolled customs cigars?… 1
CaptainQuintero Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 I haven't had a "sick" cigar (with ammonia, acidity, etc. that makes it an unsmokable cigar) for more than 5 years, and I smoke everyday. Why we have a thread about this every two weeks on this forum is a mystery to me; perhaps it's due to the recent availability of fresh rolled customs cigars? X2 I can't even remember the last time I tasted ammonia. I don't retrohale but still, its years since. Storing cigars a certain way, either by age or humidity to influence tastes is a whole other subject though but easily confused with sick period ideas .
PigFish Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 I haven't had a "sick" cigar (with ammonia, acidity, etc. that makes it an unsmokable cigar) for more than 5 years, and I smoke everyday. Why we have a thread about this every two weeks on this forum is a mystery to me; perhaps it's due to the recent availability of fresh rolled customs cigars?… The forum goes through this regular cycle of newer members and the topics get recycled… It gives me reasons to bloviate!!! -LOL Cheers! 1
PapaDisco Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Thoroughly aged tobacco prior to rolling should not produce a fermenting/sick period cigar, I'll grant you that (although I did recently get two ammonia smelling cigars out of a box of Behike of all things!), but ignoring that; do you guys believe in "dumb" periods? Phases after the fermentation where flavor chemistry is slowly morphing the cigar's flavors and it hits a spot, temporarily, where the flavors are dull and muted, only to improve 6 -12 months later?
PigFish Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Thoroughly aged tobacco prior to rolling should not produce a fermenting/sick period cigar, I'll grant you that (although I did recently get two ammonia smelling cigars out of a box of Behike of all things!), but ignoring that; do you guys believe in "dumb" periods? Phases after the fermentation where flavor chemistry is slowly morphing the cigar's flavors and it hits a spot, temporarily, where the flavors are dull and muted, only to improve 6 -12 months later? Bunk! Unless you find it in the Mountebank brand. The Mountebank brand, the collectors favorite, is everything you (or they) want it to be! 1
Jimmy2 Posted April 3, 2014 Posted April 3, 2014 Can't believe the JL Sec2 a 2013 I am smoking ! Layers of cinnamon and gingerbread with creamy sugary spice with salty pretzel dough on the back end !!! Unreal !! I am truly in shock how great this cigar is just brilliant but than again I have a excellent palate ...
PigFish Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Can't believe the JL Sec2 a 2013 I am smoking ! Layers of cinnamon and gingerbread with creamy sugary spice with salty pretzel dough on the back end !!! Unreal !! I am truly in shock how great this cigar is just brilliant but than again I have a excellent palate ... … but Jimmy these need 3 years of age on them! Think of what it could have been if you waited past the first maturation!!! …Or is that manurization??? -Piggy 2
mk05 Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 Another bunch of BS supplied by the cigar guru community! It explains why the 100 point (their rating) cigar tastes like a dog rocket once you buy a box from the collector! You see the cigar is never bad in the collector world. If it were you would never get a chance to gouge people big time for it after you have stored it for a bunch of years! It just experiences 'vacuum periods.' If you smoke one and it is bad, well, you smoked it at the wrong time!!! It is your fault! With vacuum periods, everyone is satisfied with their cigars! It is never the cigars fault, it is just your fault because you are not in tune with their yin and yang! Horse pucky!!! One day the box is over the hill, the next day they are bliss… There are poorly made cigars. There are poorly fermented cigars. There are poorly stored cigars… etc, etc, etc… Some cigars just came off the rollers table as garbage and you don't know until you smoke it. I must say, if you really want to hear an idea that makes you poorer and the other guy richer just ask a politician or a cigar collector. -the Pig Cheers! PigFish these so called Cigar Guru's are a joke ! The funny thing is most of them have a palate of a horses a$$ . It's a cigar not rocket science ..... Surely I am defending a losing side of a pointless battle, although the market proves otherwise, you guys described exactly the reason why certain smokers hunt box codes. It's not really for reselling, just to avoid all that you mentioned above. Cigar guru? What is a cigar guru? If by people who care to try sharing their collective experiences for the betterment and education of the community, then I guess sure. All I can say is that I buy a crapload of cigars, but the ones that certain "collectors" have, are leaps and bounds better than mine, on the average. That cannot be a coincidence. Now back to your regular scheduled programming...
Lotusguy Posted April 4, 2014 Posted April 4, 2014 MRN = Min Ron Nee, author of one of the cigar bibles
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