Cigar "sick" period. What and why?

[Smallclub]

That cannot be a coincidence.

I agree and I have the palate of a prize-winning sommelier

[Philprop]

I haven't had a "sick" cigar (with ammonia, acidity, etc. that makes it an unsmokable cigar) for more than 5 years, and I smoke everyday.

Why we have a thread about this every two weeks on this forum is a mystery to me; perhaps it's due to the recent availability of fresh rolled customs cigars?…

I have to say this, but why is it that every forum has someone who post links to past discussions whenever someone asks a question that has been discussed. Or simply replies with "use the search function."? I mean am I the only one who finds this rude? I've had a few questions lately but I haven't bothered to ask because I know these are the responses I will get. I've used the search function because I know the topic has been discussed at some point but I haven't found anything to answer my question. I have even googled it and still notify comes up with my specific situation. How are people, especially newer members supposed to learn from others who have a great knowledge on the subject? I know some things are really easy to find on your own should one want to look. But sometimes I feel the OP has tried to find it on their own but are still met with the same answers. when there are other members here who don't mind answering a question for the 10th time just let them do it and walk away.

Anyway, sorry for ranting on but these type of posts always stick out to me. And I learned something valuable in this thread that I probably never would have if Webbo hadn't asked. I've been smoking my way through a box of BPC lately and the last couple have been really off and I couldn't even bring myself to finish the,. The date is Feb 13 and I was just going to put it down to a sick period. Now I won't and will out it down to a couple of bad cigars as the rest of the box has been great. I would never have searched this because I've read in the past about sick periods so I made the connection. So thanks for the input everyone!

[Jeremy Festa]

I have to say this, but why is it that every forum has someone who post links to past discussions whenever someone asks a question that has been discussed. Or simply replies with "use the search function."? I mean am I the only one who finds this rude? I've had a few questions lately but I haven't bothered to ask because I know these are the responses I will get. I've used the search function because I know the topic has been discussed at some point but I haven't found anything to answer my question. I have even googled it and still notify comes up with my specific situation. How are people, especially newer members supposed to learn from others who have a great knowledge on the subject? I know some things are really easy to find on your own should one want to look. But sometimes I feel the OP has tried to find it on their own but are still met with the same answers. when there are other members here who don't mind answering a question for the 10th time just let them do it and walk away.

Anyway, sorry for ranting on but these type of posts always stick out to me. And I learned something valuable in this thread that I probably never would have if Webbo hadn't asked. I've been smoking my way through a box of BPC lately and the last couple have been really off and I couldn't even bring myself to finish the,. The date is Feb 13 and I was just going to put it down to a sick period. Now I won't and will out it down to a couple of bad cigars as the rest of the box has been great. I would never have searched this because I've read in the past about sick periods so I made the connection. So thanks for the input everyone!

Well said

From my mobile phone

[Smallclub]

I have to say this, but why is it that every forum has someone who post links to past discussions whenever someone asks a question that has been discussed.

The moderators themselves do it quite often. I fail to see what's wrong with it.

[Jeremy Festa]

The moderators themselves do it quite often. I fail to see what's wrong with it.

I hear we are at 10,000 members now. More of a courtesy thing than what's wrong with it. Live and let live I say.

From my mobile phone

[Smallclub]

I hear we are at 10,000 members now. More of a courtesy thing than what's wrong with it. Live and let live I say.

Using the Search function is courtesy.

[shlomo]

I have to say this, but why is it that every forum has someone who post links to past discussions whenever someone asks a question that has been discussed. Or simply replies with "use the search function."? I mean am I the only one who finds this rude? I've had a few questions lately but I haven't bothered to ask because I know these are the responses I will get. I've used the search function because I know the topic has been discussed at some point but I haven't found anything to answer my question. I have even googled it and still notify comes up with my specific situation. How are people, especially newer members supposed to learn from others who have a great knowledge on the subject? I know some things are really easy to find on your own should one want to look. But sometimes I feel the OP has tried to find it on their own but are still met with the same answers. when there are other members here who don't mind answering a question for the 10th time just let them do it and walk away.

Anyway, sorry for ranting on but these type of posts always stick out to me. And I learned something valuable in this thread that I probably never would have if Webbo hadn't asked. I've been smoking my way through a box of BPC lately and the last couple have been really off and I couldn't even bring myself to finish the,. The date is Feb 13 and I was just going to put it down to a sick period. Now I won't and will out it down to a couple of bad cigars as the rest of the box has been great. I would never have searched this because I've read in the past about sick periods so I made the connection. So thanks for the input everyone!

Your right, but at the said time so many of these questions have been asked that it occassionaly gets tiresome to many older members.

Ask any question you may have, and somebody will point you in the direction of entire discussions about the topic. It's a good and helpful thing, not a rude thing.

And if you don't believe in a sick period for cigars, try smoking a 5 month old johnny o .

A lousy cigar or a lousy palate are two things, but I have absolutely seen transformations in cigars that taste one way rott and are completely different 5 years later.

[Livo]

I have to say this, but why is it that every forum has someone who post links to past discussions whenever someone asks a question that has been discussed. Or simply replies with "use the search function."? I mean am I the only one who finds this rude? I've had a few questions lately but I haven't bothered to ask because I know these are the responses I will get. I've used the search function because I know the topic has been discussed at some point but I haven't found anything to answer my question. I have even googled it and still notify comes up with my specific situation. How are people, especially newer members supposed to learn from others who have a great knowledge on the subject? I know some things are really easy to find on your own should one want to look. But sometimes I feel the OP has tried to find it on their own but are still met with the same answers. when there are other members here who don't mind answering a question for the 10th time just let them do it and walk away.

Anyway, sorry for ranting on but these type of posts always stick out to me. And I learned something valuable in this thread that I probably never would have if Webbo hadn't asked. I've been smoking my way through a box of BPC lately and the last couple have been really off and I couldn't even bring myself to finish the,. The date is Feb 13 and I was just going to put it down to a sick period. Now I won't and will out it down to a couple of bad cigars as the rest of the box has been great. I would never have searched this because I've read in the past about sick periods so I made the connection. So thanks for the input everyone!

Don't let that deter you from asking your questions. Some people always respond that way, some because they genuinely want to point you in the right direction and others just to be rude. Others will try to answer your question.

I often find that interesting new perspectives are shared when previously discussed topics are brought up again. Either by new members or those that weren't around the first time.

[Lotusguy]

I have to say this, but why is it that every forum has someone who post links to past discussions whenever someone asks a question that has been discussed. Or simply replies with "use the search function."? I mean am I the only one who finds this rude? I've had a few questions lately but I haven't bothered to ask because I know these are the responses I will get. I've used the search function because I know the topic has been discussed at some point but I haven't found anything to answer my question. I have even googled it and still notify comes up with my specific situation. How are people, especially newer members supposed to learn from others who have a great knowledge on the subject? I know some things are really easy to find on your own should one want to look. But sometimes I feel the OP has tried to find it on their own but are still met with the same answers. when there are other members here who don't mind answering a question for the 10th time just let them do it and walk away.

Anyway, sorry for ranting on but these type of posts always stick out to me. And I learned something valuable in this thread that I probably never would have if Webbo hadn't asked. I've been smoking my way through a box of BPC lately and the last couple have been really off and I couldn't even bring myself to finish the,. The date is Feb 13 and I was just going to put it down to a sick period. Now I won't and will out it down to a couple of bad cigars as the rest of the box has been great. I would never have searched this because I've read in the past about sick periods so I made the connection. So thanks for the input everyone!

You're probably referring to me but I really don't want to clutter another thread with OT discussions. If you really want to talk about and not just vent, you can start a thread on it.

[PuffDaddie]

10,000 and counting.

[PigFish]

Surely I am defending a losing side of a pointless battle, although the market proves otherwise, you guys described exactly the reason why certain smokers hunt box codes. It's not really for reselling, just to avoid all that you mentioned above. Cigar guru? What is a cigar guru? If by people who care to try sharing their collective experiences for the betterment and education of the community, then I guess sure. All I can say is that I buy a crapload of cigars, but the ones that certain "collectors" have, are leaps and bounds better than mine, on the average. That cannot be a coincidence.

Now back to your regular scheduled programming...

Many aspects of cigars depend on "interpretation and taste." They are nothing more than opinion. I support that line of thinking. There is nothing here to be proven, it cannot be! Can the market prove it? How so? The market is MADE! The primary market is made by Tabacuba and the other cigar makers. The secondary market is MADE by the biggest participants, mostly collectors and customers of collectors trading in cigars of various sizes, ages and costs for their own reasons.

In short those that own the raw materials and the body of purchasers make the primary market and the secondary market the same. There is no proof of anything other than some folks are willing to pay more for certain cigars and there is a value placed on those certainties by the buyers and the sellers. There are simply people partaking in transactions.

There is no proof that the cigars of one man's humidor are better than that of another man's. If you want to believe it that is okay, who am I to judge you or your cigars? But proof!!! Where is the proof other than the opinion of self proclaimed experts?

Hoaxes, hypes and the charlatans that promote them for the purpose of self interest earmark the human race. I have concluded that all of this exists in the cigar community as well. One man's generous altruism is another man's generous profit. True motivations are often witnessed in the darkest corners, none of which I will bring to light here.

I don't care what hoax and hokum the cigar world believes! If a bunch of people want to spend money on cigars for whatever the reason, it has little or nothing to do with me.

I think I have a nose for a charlatan when I see one! Some of the more infamous ones have demonstrated their motivations to me firsthand. I don't idly throw grenades! I also don't mention people by name.

There are millions of people who will believe in anything! What I do or don't believe in is of little consequence to the rest of the world but a poster did ask for opinions! Sure it is posted elsewhere, the topic is not new to me, but it took me only moments to regenerate my stock answer!

It is easy to find those who believe in everything from God to global warming, antioxidants to how shaving a hair will make it grow different!!! If you put a razor blade under a pyramid it will stay sharp forever… that is one of my favorites! I have seen it all!

I to have faith in some ideas… I do believe in some things and disregard others. Some beliefs are bunk! That is my belief. I shared my belief because it was asked. I did not bring up names or places, just a rationale for why I believe what I believe to go along with the belief itself.

One thing is for sure. No one who knows more about my taste in cigars than me. Everyone can say that their cigars are better than mine just as I can say that mine are better than theirs. No proof can ever exist to prove that statement! Would you like to know why? Saying that one controls the market on the best cigars implys that he/she has control of the entire cigar marketplace. It makes them God! Why does it make them God? Because saying that a person or a group of persons owns the worlds best cigars condemns the entire future market for cigars! It insists that the owner of a 'collection' of a commodity that is still produced will never advance beyond the definition of the person or persons making the claim… Man, that is a big claim! It means the best cigar ever made was made in the past and it will never be replicated, or surpassed. Can someone please tell me exactly which cigar that is. I would like to know! It also means that the person or persons making the claim can actually force the market to comply with their claim condemning the future of the market itself!

I will continue to believe that the worlds best cigar can still be produced. This means that it is open to everyone that pulls a single cigar from a box, any box of any size of any maker at any time. It is random and it cannot be cornered or controlled. Only God, and I do believe in God could control such a market! Without such control the market can only be speculated about, dreamed about and certainly lied about!

Do you know why the cigar collector community never writes about the individual nature of a cigar? Do you ever wonder why this philosophy is not 'preached' in the cigar collector community? Because it deny's the "value" of their existence. I mean why collect rare cigars when current production is just as good or better? Age then, becomes the only facet that you cannot control. All you can do is wait for it. Furthermore it cannot be defined or quantified. It is therefore the facet that the community concentrates on!

If one thinks their own cigars are second rate by the hoaxes promoted by another, I will do my damnedest to convince them otherwise. By my extrapolation, this constitutes a belief in a false god. I BELIEVE that one who would follow this belief, does himself and the cigar industry a disservice. That is my approach, and it is altruistic and that is why post about it, over and over again!

I believe that those who claim the position of owning the worlds best cigars don't do it for altruistic reasons. They do it for self aggrandizement, self promotion or for the money!

Cheers, the Pig

[Webbo]

To those who where offended or upset at my asking a question on what is clearly a perennial topic I apologise, it was not my intention. I did indeed use the search function on this subject and read through several previous threads before posting but it had become became clear to me that this is not an open or shut case in the eyes of many of the members here. Opinions are divided but that is what I am I interested to read, different opinions and ideas. I am pleased that several of the members who's comments and views I have already come to value have posted on this thread and to all who have I thank you. Without being precious or flouncing off I think I would rather in future refrain from asking such questions rather than irritate or cause annoyance fellow forum members.

[Jimmy2]

Pig Fish I agree with your statement just an excellent write up ..

Webbo you did not offended anyone here and you should not be apologizing to know one !!

If anyone was offended here I will be the first to say I will buy them a box of tissues or well get over it !

We are debating cigars here ! Nothing more than that ...

[mk05]

Since what I joined a forum is for discussions, I hope my response will be seen as a response to a discussion, not a retort to an argument. I understand that you don't point fingers or specify a person, but when you generalize, it translates to mean that collectors and lifelong aficionados are ruining the cigar culture, and that seems to be way off base.

Many aspects of cigars depend on "interpretation and taste." They are nothing more than opinion. I support that line of thinking. There is nothing here to be proven, it cannot be! Can the market prove it? How so? The market is MADE! The primary market is made by Tabacuba and the other cigar makers. The secondary market is MADE by the biggest participants, mostly collectors and customers of collectors trading in cigars of various sizes, ages and costs for their own reasons.

In short those that own the raw materials and the body of purchasers make the primary market and the secondary market the same. There is no proof of anything other than some folks are willing to pay more for certain cigars and there is a value placed on those certainties by the buyers and the sellers. There are simply people partaking in transactions.

There is no proof that the cigars of one man's humidor are better than that of another man's. If you want to believe it that is okay, who am I to judge you or your cigars? But proof!!! Where is the proof other than the opinion of self proclaimed experts?

...

Do you know why the cigar collector community never writes about the individual nature of a cigar? Do you ever wonder why this philosophy is not 'preached' in the cigar collector community? Because it deny's the "value" of their existence. I mean why collect rare cigars when current production is just as good or better? Age then, becomes the only facet that you cannot control. All you can do is wait for it. Furthermore it cannot be defined or quantified. It is therefore the facet that the community concentrates on!

If one thinks their own cigars are second rate by the hoaxes promoted by another, I will do my damnedest to convince them otherwise.

...

I believe that those who claim the position of owning the worlds best cigars don't do it for altruistic reasons. They do it for self aggrandizement, self promotion or for the money!

Cheers, the Pig

I guess you make a good point against PSP, HQ, and PE designations in the bolded sections.

As for the underlined, I agree that current production is fantastic, and most of the "collectors" (I am going to address them as aficionados now) I know also continuously buy, because they believe that current production actually hearkens back to the style of the old days - except for the ligero content.

To address the sick period topic:

The only reason aficionados are worried about the aging is specifically due to the lack of ligero, and the loss of a sick period after '03, which implies that the tobacco is being treated differently somehow - whether it be less aged, more aged, cooked, substituted with different tobacco, etc. It is a worry for the future, not to say that their cigars are better. In fact, you do this as well, saying (paraphrased), "Cuba does not make cigars like these anymore, these are now discontinued, can't find these anywhere, smoking them now and are wonderful [insert picture of cigar]." Certainly, you are not selling any cigars, or trying to pump up the value of your collection. You are just saying cigars in the past were good, and just sharing experiences.

When aficionados talk about the loss of sick period and the continual worry - and this seems to happen every 3 years or so - it is to discuss changes in tobacco and curing processes, not definitively saying that new cigars will not age properly. As I've pointed out to another aficionado once, I don't think the approachability of recent production from '12 is necessarily a problem. It is certainly a deviance from how it used to be, but not a turn for the worse. For the market - and by market, I mean the people partaking in the cigar culture - on the whole this approachability is a great thing. And he agreed.

To address box codes:

I cannot speak on saying a specific collection is better for some other reason than box codes. Surely there is a case against box codes, and the only one that makes sense is that nobody knows how cigars will age. And to that, I will secede the point. However, I am a believer that if a cigar is good young, that cigar will tend to age well. Now, I don't have 10+ years of personal experience to make such a remark, but I am fortunate enough to have those aficionados to point me in the right direction, tell me exactly how that cigar tasted young, and how these new production counterparts compare. So to that, I will also secede the point that I am biased in that respect.

Nevertheless, it does not change the argument that was made to me. As a believe of numbers, the way that the box code selection was taught to me made intrinsic sense. If one could find - on the average - a box that was made with: a) better class of tobacco, b ) better cured tobacco, c) rolled by more adept group of rollers, d) overseen by a catadore and ligadore with a superior palate to others on the average, e) rolled in a factory with better quality control; I submit that on the average, the experiences gathered from that box of cigars will be - on the average - greater than a random box of cigars.

I believe everyone who is intrigued enough to join a specialty forum on a hobby is looking to learn and gain the best of what is available. I simply believe that this is the exercise to do as such, no more, no less.

[Philprop]

Webbo, I truly am sorry for going off topic with your thread, just saw something that has bugged me a little over my time here, I lost my cool when I shouldn't have and won't do it again. But don't stop asking questions! That's why forums should exist, for experienced people to help educate the lesser educated. I am refraining from asking a couple questions as I know I will get the responses that I have brought. Up that I do not like, but also because I know for a fact they have been discussed before and it kind of annoys me that I cannot find those topics. So it's one of those things that I must do on my own just because I can't find it.

And like I said before, I learned something because you brought up this topic. Had you not I would never have learned what I did. So thank you very much and do not hesitate to ask anything else.

[Jeremy Festa]

Webbo, I truly am sorry for going off topic with your thread, just saw something that has bugged me a little over my time here, I lost my cool when I shouldn't have and won't do it again. But don't stop asking questions! That's why forums should exist, for experienced people to help educate the lesser educated. I am refraining from asking a couple questions as I know I will get the responses that I have brought. Up that I do not like, but also because I know for a fact they have been discussed before and it kind of annoys me that I cannot find those topics. So it's one of those things that I must do on my own just because I can't find it.

And like I said before, I learned something because you brought up this topic. Had you not I would never have learned what I did. So thank you very much and do not hesitate to ask anything else.

Fark that mate! Start a thread and ask your questions! There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Like religion and politics, (and in this forum's case, sometimes hunting and fishing) these are topics that can be discussed to the end of time.

From my mobile phone

[Jeremy Festa]

Back on topic, I have experienced two different boxes that were epic, then weren't, and then were. I believe it was more than a couple of duds in each box and it was a sick period. My sample size on this matter is fairly small, but I would attribute it to being very young cigars that were great from the get go, and then went all weird as they acclimatized to their new environment in my humidor.

From my mobile phone

[stogieluver]

Pig Fish I agree with your statement just an excellent write up ..

Webbo you did not offended anyone here and you should not be apologizing to know one !!

If anyone was offended here I will be the first to say I will buy them a box of tissues or well get over it !

We are debating cigars here ! Nothing more than that ...

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[BonVivant]

Bit of a schoolboy question. I keep reading about cigars being in their sick period. What exactly is this and why does it occur? Presumably these periods differ between different marca. Are there any rules of thumb as to when, say 6-12 months etc or could it be anytime and it's a case of try one and see?

yes and it is a fact, according to Cubans, CA, CI and friends in the industry - tobacco does evolve after being rolled in cigars - natural, after all

[Stogieninja]

My head hurts...

[earthson]

I find that cigars I select to age sometimes seem to go through a "sick period." Of course, this begs the question - are all of the smokes from the box "sick" at this point, or was it just a one-off cigar that merely tasted bland, and we thus deemed them all "sick?" Although it is easy to assume the the curing/aging process is a smooth, bell-curve-shaped affair, in reality it is probably more stop and start, relying on temperature, humidity, air exchange, and other dynamic fluctuations.

And as for other forum members getting fussy with your questions, disregard them. They're showing you their tail-feathers by acting this way and, hell, this IS the internet, where it's been safe to act arrogant and conceited since 1995!

I've actually found this to be one of the friendliest and most welcoming of all cigar forums I've been part of, but that doesn't mean that there aren't still a few turds in the punchbowl.

[AbuAmelia]

A lousy cigar or a lousy palate are two things, but I have absolutely seen transformations in cigars that taste one way rott and are completely different 5 years later.

Yup, or even 5 weeks later.

[El Presidente]

For the record I don't have a problem answering the same questions on a regular basis. Yes if one can use the search function then it helps everyone. It certainly isn't the easiest search function to use so the more experienced forum members can with little effort find something quickly, just post the link. All good, share the load.

On the issue of this thread. Cigars can be discussed purposefully, even forcefully. What can never be permitted to occur is the demeaning of a person or group for having a differing opinion.

[Steens]

In my experience cigars do change while being keep under consistant conditions , and i do experience this across my entire collection During storage i have found most to improve over time for my taste, with some not enjoyable without some age,and a few that have gone flat( what some might call sick) for a period of time

[Smallclub]

and a few that have gone flat( what some might call sick) for a period of time

Precisely, that's what this thread (and others) is about! Sick and flat/dull are 2 different issues.