CC vs NC Culture

[Philski]

I wonder if pre-revolution cigars were aged longer in Cuba than today's cigar.

I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that (in the UK anyway, and doubtless elsewhere too), retailers would do much of the ageing. I think this was the culture of cigar retailing as much as anything else, where freshly received stock would be stored for a handful of years before being made available for sale.

I think this was the case up until the cigar boom.

[CaptainQuintero]

I tremble talking to a retailers who said they had to store some Cubans between a year and three just do they could smell them without their eyes watering. It was literally a nessesity to make stock sellable.

Huge leaps since then obviously. People are commenting that because now cigars are so approachable young that it means they will have no legs for aging. I'm not so sure, just better tobacco processing going on imo, recent RASS as an example-they are smoking as if three or four years of age are on them. In five years time I expect they will be amazing, not flat and dead simply because they are good already.

Glass half full or half empty idea I guess

[bigharpoon]

A bit of a tangent, but I was thinking of something along these lines just the other day. I do believe that if producers truly wanted to blend for balance and more complexity, that most likely they could. Or that perhaps blending for balance would allow for more complexity......

I completely agree. In fact, there are some cigars coming out of Nicaragua that are quite a step above (in my opinion) your more typical NC cigars. For example, Regius is making cigars that are quite complex and tasty. I'm glad to see it and hopefully this opens the market for more, better NC cigars in the world.

My heart is still with CC, as of now there is still no substitute.

[Livo]

I've always wondered how popular NC's are outside of the US where they have to compete more directly with CC's. I'm sure we have a lot of members who can share a little insight.

[CdnLimitada]

When I started in cigars a few short years ago, it was all NC as I didn't know how to access Cubans at a decent price (had no idea about Rob at the time or who was a legit online retailer and it seemed like no one was wanting to tell). Given I had little idea what good, great and amazing were in cigars, I didn't want to spend a ton on them in a retail shop locally. I got fully into NCs. Looking back I spent a lot of money on these and could have bought few quality CC locally but I ended up learning a lot. Mainly what I learned was :

1) Most NC smokers (generalization) are into the strength of the cigar as a main characteristic. I found trying some of the popular ones like the Drew Estates 9, Undercrown, FFP, Camacho, Anejos, Padrons that they certainly packed a punch but were a lot of times too much for me. It was also a lot of trying the latest new cigar (which there seemed to be 2 every week).

2) I learned a lot of what I don't like. In trying loads of different NCs and then slowly some CC, I learned what complexity is (or lack there of).

3) I found some diamonds in the rough. I really found some great (okay very good) NCs. Not many but a couple.

4) built some good friendships.

Overall I am grateful to the NC lovers out there. Imagine what the supply/price of CC would be if not!

[ndhaon91]

I've actually been thinking about this a lot recently a well. Mostly because of my infatuation with the Regius Seleccion Orchant. It is a Nicaraguan puro that tastes astonishingly Cuban. I put it right there with the HdM Epi 2, HU Connie 1, etc. in terms of balance and complexity. It was apparently blended to mimic the PSD4, but I haven't had one so I can't comment. In any event, it's a fantastic cigar and unlike any other Nicaraguan puro out there. It's proof that a lot of the CC vs NC differences do in fact come down to blending.

[MIKA27]

I've heard this quite a bit. I just recently burned through half a box of Liga Privada No. 9s from 2010 (I do not enjoy the current No. 9 blend) and they were absolutely fantastic. Would rank among the best Liga's I've ever hard.

Liga Privada 9's are amazing and I just purchased a box of Liga Privada T52's, also amazing.

I think majority of NC's I've smoked have been to smoke now versus put away and enjoy in 5 years. The T52's are brilliant, medium to full power houses but not unpleasant, quite complex. Sort of morphs similar to a Unicos but stronger.

[dowjr1]

Yes I am still a fan of the NCs. There are some fantastic ones out there. I have some nice aged Liga 9s, My Fathers, illusione, tats, etc. but for now, it is all about building then CC stash and letting them settle. Good things require patience sometimes. Back to the subject though. I guess when I wrote the intro, I was wondering if the NC makers aged their leaves before rolling or after rolling or whatever...which is why few talk about aging them in the NC world. Or are the CCs not aged before being put out the door? OR....is there little difference btw the manf process and the difference is like I suggested above...cultural?

[Guyman1966]

I think majority of NC's I've smoked have been to smoke now versus put away and enjoy in 5 years. The T52's are brilliant, medium to full power houses but not unpleasant, quite complex. Sort of morphs similar to a Unicos but stronger.

It is funny that you say that. I guess its is a common strategy. I’m thinking that I will have 20-25% of my sticks as NC in my smoke ‘em now section and keep the CC’s in my long-term aging area.

[Jah]

Yes I am still a fan of the NCs. There are some fantastic ones out there. I have some nice aged Liga 9s, My Fathers, illusione, tats, etc. but for now, it is all about building then CC stash and letting them settle. Good things require patience sometimes. Back to the subject though. I guess when I wrote the intro, I was wondering if the NC makers aged their leaves before rolling or after rolling or whatever...which is why few talk about aging them in the NC world. Or are the CCs not aged before being put out the door? OR....is there little difference btw the manf process and the difference is like I suggested above...cultural?

Usually the tobacco is aged before the cigar is rolled. This is why CC's take more time to age before you smoke them.

[UpInSmoak]

It is funny that you say that. I guess its is a common strategy. I’m thinking that I will have 20-25% of my sticks as NC in my smoke ‘em now section and keep the CC’s in my long-term aging area.

I use to do the same, or I tried to at least.

I quickly learned that I'll take a young (and sometimes harsh)CC over a NC any and every time.

[Guyman1966]

I use to do the same, or I tried to at least.

I quickly learned that I'll take a young (and sometimes harsh)CC over a NC any and every time.

It will be fun for me to see how this works out. It would not surprise me if my experience mirrors yours.

Cheers!

[CaptainQuintero]

I've always wondered how popular NC's are outside of the US where they have to compete more directly with CC's. I'm sure we have a lot of members who can share a little insight.

Only the premiums really are available and more often than not they are considerably more expensive than Cubans. They are popular though, I think if a cigar is good, it stands on it's own merit regardless of origin.

Also with NCs here and their hefty tag, if they don't sell they are not restocked yet there are a steady supply of padron, fuente around. Little to none from tatuaje, illusione or liga privada though.

Regius is around but similarly priced to the Trinidad cuban line so zero compulsion to try them.

[kuzi16]

Regius is around but similarly priced to the Trinidad cuban line so zero compulsion to try them.

Regius cigars have only been available in the US since about 2011. Before that time the owner, Akhil Kapacee, was distributing to the Asian and European markets only. they were in competition with CCs long before they made it to the US.

that is a bold thing to do when NC do so well in the US.

[Smallclub]

(...) they were in competition with CCs long before they made it to the US.

In Europe? Not really. They are distributed only in the UK and in Poland, and maybe Germany, AFAIK.

No one has heard of them in Spain and France, the 2 major markets.

[CanuckSARTech]

...As far as Ammonia it's not as noticeable as it was before 2003 from my experience ..

Agreed very much. The transition from 2003-2005/2006 is huge, compared to the mid- to late-90's cigars. I've got rarely any ammonia hits on fresh boxes bought since 2010, not compared to the past.

I tremble talking to a retailers who said they had to store some Cubans between a year and three just do they could smell them without their eyes watering. It was literally a nessesity to make stock sellable.

Huge leaps since then obviously...

I remember when I first got into cigars in the late 90's - a huge difference with how cigars were. Be it better fermenting processes, better tobacco strains, etc., etc. - who knows, likely a combination of the above. But a big difference to how things were.

[Walt69]

From what I've noticed, NCs ALWAYS have a new edition of something coming out... It's almost impossible to say you've tried EVERY NC there is, especially when there are new companies coming out, or new off-shoots of companies "DPG->My Father->La Reloba->La Duena etc...". So, if you like diversity that's a plus. On the other hand, "correct me if I'm wrong," but it seems like CCs are always the same companies producing the same vitolas unless it's a Limited Edition or Regional release, so it stands to reason that it would be possible to try every CC there is, short of maybe the regionals or limited productions.

Just my .02

[pbibby]

IMO it's is completely apples and oranges. Sure they're both fruit, but they are two completely different things. Keep in mind I come from the United States so NCs were my first love, but I love both equally. Hell all I care about is if a cigar is good. Period. If it's made in Afghanistan I couldn't care less. All I know is, IMO, you can enjoy both without having to enjoy the same things about them. I've had some wonderful aged NCs but certainly not as many as CC's. That's the beauty though. I know I can smoke my NCs now and they will be great, all the while letting my CCs get some years of age on them.

[Duxnutz]

Liga Privada 9's are amazing and I just purchased a box of Liga Privada T52's, also amazing.

I think majority of NC's I've smoked have been to smoke now versus put away and enjoy in 5 years. The T52's are brilliant, medium to full power houses but not unpleasant, quite complex. Sort of morphs similar to a Unicos but stronger.

Smoke them within a couple yrs! I've got a couple number 9s that are shades of their former self. FLAT.

[Stogieninja]

Smoke them within a couple yrs! I've got a couple number 9s that are shades of their former self. FLAT.

recently heard that the ORs, which were flat and boring, have come alive again.

[Professor Twain]

The thread has mainly focused on differences related to aging cigar. Another aspect that seems very different between Cuban and NC cigar cultures can be seen in reviews. Cuban cigar reviews tend to focus 90% on the flavors. These reviewers are very attentive to subtle flavor differences between cigars from different marcas, with different ages, and also on how different cigar sizes (e.g. a petit corona versus a Churchill) are different. Cuban cigar reviews also pay a lot of attention to how the cigar develops, usually in thirds. Non Cuban reviewers usually pay much more attention to other factors, such as the origin of the tobacco, whether it a unique blend, the construction, the burn--and flavor gets little mention. I know that's a very broad generalization but I've often had the experience of picking up a Non Cuban cigar, trying to find a review that describes the flavor profile, and not finding it.

Non Cuban cigar culture also thrives on novelty. Newer is better. Different is better. We see a bit of that with Cuban cigars, e.g. with the LEs and regionals, but to a much smaller extent.

Live and let live, there is room for all in this great cigar hobby we share.

[aes8]

The thread has mainly focused on differences related to aging cigar. Another aspect that seems very different between Cuban and NC cigar cultures can be seen in reviews. Cuban cigar reviews tend to focus 90% on the flavors. These reviewers are very attentive to subtle flavor differences between cigars from different marcas, with different ages, and also on how different cigar sizes (e.g. a petit corona versus a Churchill) are different. Cuban cigar reviews also pay a lot of attention to how the cigar develops, usually in thirds. Non Cuban reviewers usually pay much more attention to other factors, such as the origin of the tobacco, whether it a unique blend, the construction, the burn--and flavor gets little mention. I know that's a very broad generalization but I've often had the experience of picking up a Non Cuban cigar, trying to find a review that describes the flavor profile, and not finding it.

Non Cuban cigar culture also thrives on novelty. Newer is better. Different is better. We see a bit of that with Cuban cigars, e.g. with the LEs and regionals, but to a much smaller extent.

Live and let live, there is room for all in this great cigar hobby we share.

This is pretty much dead on although the NC industry did go through a big change after the boom. Prior to that there were a ton of boutique, well made and extremely flavorful NC lines being made. Not so much now, imo

At this point in time the NC vs CC dichotomy is analogous to Napa cabs vs French Bordeaux. Both domestic products Are punch you in the face, over the top, full speed ahead types of flavor while the CC and French products tend to be more refined while subtle and still complex. One is a full meal by itself and the other is a course in a chef tasting

[KoreanCowboy]

Padron seems to be one of the more popular NCs in the CC world. this may have to do with the fact that Padron doesnt have an aging room like many other NC factories. Padron stics more with a CC tradition.

very interesting discussion here.

Interesting you say this about Padron because Padron rests all tobacco a minimum of 18 months before it is made into a cigar. In fact, in the 2003 Cigar Aficionado interview with Jorge Padron, he states how they always have 6 years worth of inventory tobacco to choose from.

Quote below from the interview

Q: You never use shade tobacco?

A: Never. Wrapper is always the challenge. We try to maximize the yield as best as possible, but sometimes, of course, we have to deal with the elements, and crops vary from year to year, so there are times when the wrapper yields will be better than others. But that's why we maintain an inventory of six years' worth of tobacco, to allow us to counterbalance the years that are bad.

Q: Is six years' inventory your comfort zone, where you want to be?

A: We can never have enough tobacco. If we can grow to eight years, we'll have eight years.

[KoreanCowboy]

recently heard that the ORs, which were flat and boring, have come alive again.

I'm a DE fan and have smoked plenty of older No 9's and T52's and none age well. Even Steve Saka says you need to smoke them within 2 years or they lose the desired flavors. This is true with all of the special lines as well, Dirty Rats, L40, FFP, etc. I've smoked a few OR Dirty Rats and they are terrible. They taste nothing like they should.

[BulldogUK]

I use to do the same, or I tried to at least.

I quickly learned that I'll take a young (and sometimes harsh)CC over a NC any and every time.

I am curious what's the best NCs in your experience. And apparently you missed a lot good ones from NCs.

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