Cigar Effects Research- Any unbiased data out there?

[Fosgate]

Some of you may know that I am a "Non-traditional" student at age of 40ish back in college. Even though I had 12 years of business management experience, I got caught up with layoffs in 2008-09 and had to find an alternative since I had no degree. Since I have been in college in 09 I have been Double majoring in Business Admin Management and Public Health which I converted the PH to a minor after moving with my fiance to another campus. One thing I have learned in College is to question sources and motives especially when it comes to public opinion, laws and data used. You know the reports that start out "New research...."

This is what has me bothered. I sandbagged a low level general studies PE 150 (Healthy Living) class and started taking about stress, effects etc and then smoking. Of course when it comes to talking about smoking and smokers in a room of young college freshmen you may as well start talking about Nazi's. And of course I start a debate on the issue for cigar smokers saying I disagree trying to lump all tobacco use into one pile and question the opinion of the book and the professor. (who mentioned she loved the smell of cigars from her father). But immediately I'm jumped on as a smoker and debate insures and non of the students dare try to take me on but it is between me and the professor. She is not liking my opinion based on personal experience. I finally catch her by saying, "Wait a minute! Take Epidemiology and they show how research can be skewed, biased and why you should question it, same thing with Public Health, Biology, Statistics, Business Ethics, Organizational Behavior, Philosophy etc. Yet I get in this class and it's the only class in my five years that tells me to believe an "opinion" because it sure does not share any data or it's sources to base an opinion on. I thought this was a place of higher learning?" I just got her double blink and she simply ended the debate and though it was clear she lost, she certainly did not change her mind.

Just out of curiosity I have been bouncing around looking through several research articles about cigar smoke and though they seem very credible I have yet to find one not biased trying to push an agenda or one that openly shows how they collected their data. What cigars are used etc. Many try to push that well nicotine laced smoke is absorbed more quickly in saliva just like chewing tobacco etc. Anyone who has chewed like myself knows this is a false comparison and no way the same for the amount and rate of absorption. They preach how cigars are just as bad or worse than cigarrettes to the human body but fail to share data and instead show only their opinion rather than actual experiments. Usually these reports are published by medical institutions and anti smoking organizations or funded by the like who all benefit from branding it so.

I was a slave to cigarettes, I had to smoke at least a half a pack of day and suffered anxiety throughout my day. I quit twice and quickly found my way back to addiction. I also chewed on and off through my 13yr smoking habit. I started smoking cigars last summer while going through the tough ordeal of a breakup of a 5yr relationship. I had quit smoking cigarettes and chewing 4yrs earlier. Neither habit I enjoyed as felt they controlled me. Sitting and smoking with friends, deep relaxing enjoyable conversations with friends did wonders through a very tough time in my life and could have very well averted me from having a heart attack. Now I am not a daily cigar smoker, I am more of a once a month smoker unless on vacation around family and friends celebrating etc. I could very well quit now if I had the desire to but I won't because I control this, it does not control me. I am not convinced that smoking cigars in moderation has no positive effects.

Doctors prescribe medications with side effects as an aversion to worse possible case. However, what about stress and mental health which we really seem to know so little about but know negative stress has a physical and mental effect on ones overall health? Yet they have no conclusion about occasional cigar smokers? Instead we prescribe medications that potentially can cause people to go suicidal? Didn't the US Army used to issue cigarettes in C rations to help soldiers deal with battlefield stress? Oh, but that can cause cancer so we can suggest that even though it is well known that tobacco relieves stress.

Opinions? Does anyone know of any real good unbiased scientific research and experiments out there they would like to share? I can't find any.

[CaptainQuintero]

I don't think there are any big papers out there, at least none that I could find.

But stress is one of if not the biggest killers, cigars negate that.

Plus I'm of the belief that out 'check out' is pre determined, so do whatever you enjoy. Obviously if you enjoy playing marco-polo in traffic while shooting heroin, you're kind of not playing by the rules

If you don't inhale, limited to three or four cigars a week I can't really see any bad effects effects. Especially considering the radiation, car exhausts, junk we get into our bodies regularly from just daily living.

If you're on 12 cigars a day like Freud then you're probably going to have issues, like dying early/creating bullplop theories that damage mental health understanding for the next 100 years etc etc etc

[DrunkenMonkey]

My own research has shown that the kind of exchange you engaged in with your professor is bad for your academic health.

If you feel you need to take on your professor in a debate (which is never a good idea), then do it during office hours. Calling her out in the middle of a lecture is neither wise nor polite, in my opinion.

[Fosgate]

Similar to what i think. Yet where is their data to show number of cancer/death of cigar smokers to chewers and cigarette/pipe smokers?

I question a lot of things that become public policy that no one questions such as the food pyramid or the one plate diet recommendation from the FDA now. Both have been put in place as a matter of opinion rather than research. Simple Archeology research of our traditional diet and biology shows the recommendations are not correct and if that is not enough our obesity crisis started when? About the time my former governor (McGovern pushed for a diet that fattens us like cattle and causes other health issues). I don't simply swallow what my govt and popular opinion tells me anymore without questioning it first.

[Fosgate]

My own research has shown that the kind of exchange you engaged in with your professor is bad for your academic health.

If you feel you need to take on your professor in a debate (which is never a good idea), then do it during office hours. Calling her out in the middle of a lecture is neither wise nor polite, in my opinion.

Normally I keep my mouth shut from my own opinion from all classes. Social Welfare was especially hard but quickly learned to just tell them what they want to hear when it comes to essays etc. This is a class that openly debates hot topics and is encouraged. Should have seen the debate on suicide prevention. One student had a friend who had committed suicide only a week before.

Being engaged to a doctorate professor for five years taught me a lot about academics and the egos of some professors are unparalleled.

[shlomo]

you are sticking a pile of burning leaves in your mouth and drawing in smoke. Are you really thinking that there maybe some secret health benefits to this?

stress relief can be achieved in hundreds of other ways that are not as damaging as cigar smoking.

to give a highly exaggerated example, if you get a bad cut on your hand, would you say that snorting a line of coke to ease the pain is the best solutionfor pain management? it will work, but there are healthier and safer approaches.

same with cigars.

[CaptainQuintero]

you are sticking a pile of burning leaves in your mouth and drawing in smoke. Are you really thinking that there maybe some secret health benefits to this?

stress relief can be achieved in hundreds of other ways that are not as damaging as cigar smoking.

to give a highly exaggerated example, if you get a bad cut on your hand, would you say that snorting a line of coke to ease the pain is the best solutionfor pain management? it will work, but there are healthier and safer approaches.

same with cigars.

God shlomo coke doesn't relax you, if you cut your hand you need horse tranqs!

[shlomo]

Who said anything about coke relaxing you? I said coke will ease the pain (forget about the pain completely!). Learn to read you red coat scum!

[Hohenthal]

Learn to read you red coat scum!

Please, do we really have to review forum rules again?

Peace, Brothers!

[shlomo]

Please, do we really have to review forum rules again?

Peace, Brothers!

It was a joke. But thanks for being the fun police.

[Fosgate]

I'm not saying cigar smoking is not bad or questioning if it is. I am questioning if it is as bad as what we are led to believe based on opinion rather than legitimate unbiased scientific data. And I agree there are better ways to deal with stress so long as a person has access to other methods of support etc. I'm just saying it could be a short term tool no different than loading up someone on meds with the risk of immediate life threatening side effects and stuffing them in therapy.

[stargazer14]

"not as damaging as cigar smoking"

And like the initial question asks- where are you getting this information?

When someone starts blasting me as I am relaxing with as smoke about how it is going to kill me fast, I reply- "And how old was George Burns when he died again?..."

[Fosgate]

Oh hell that's funny. I was thinking the same thing!

Point taken I mis stated in my typing frenzy. I know cigars are not a granola bar (just waiting to hear those are bad for us too), I just refuse to believe what places like the American Cancer Society, Mayo Clinic, The CDC and even a Candian Medical journal say about cigars.

Guy in my home town gave up drinking, smoking, eating right and even ran every morning at 6am till his 50's. 10yrs clean and sober. Then fell out of a tree stand archery hunting deer, broke both his legs and died of a heart attack trying to crawl back to his truck. Like CaptainQuentaro said when your time is up.

Wanna live to a rip old age of 80+. Go visit a hospice care facility at lunch and sit in the cafeteria and you'll start chain smoking hoping you never see the inside of that place again. At least I don't.

[stillinger]

They do have an agenda, but their agenda is more along the line of 'lets keep people healthy' not so much cigars are bad.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PaulP]

They do have an agenda, but their agenda is more along the line of 'lets keep people healthy' not so much cigars are bad.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Their agenda is let's control every aspect of everyone's life. They use the guise of peoples' health.

[oliverdst]

Smoking cigars is hazardous to your health. Period.

I always thought this subject wasn't debated in cigar forums because everyone knew that.

[Elvis]

With regard to medical studies on tobacco, they tend to lump in cigars with cigarettes. Those studies that have been focused on cigars did not distinguish from occasional smoking of hand rolled cigars vs. chain smoking (and inhaling) of inexpensive cigars purchased in drug stores or gas stations. Examples of these cigars are Blunts, White Owls, Dutch Masters, Cigarillos, etc.

The smokers of these inexpensive cigars far outnumber those that smoke hand rolled cigars and this cannot help but skew the results of the studies.

In the U.S., the medical community has uniformly indicated that there are no safe levels of nicotine.

--E

[stargazer14]

"Smoking cigars is hazardous to your health. Period. "

As is drinking bottled water, but as the original post asks....

"Does anyone know of any unbiased research..."

[oliverdst]

"Smoking cigars is hazardous to your health. Period. "

As is drinking bottled water, but as the original post asks....

"Does anyone know of any unbiased research..."

You must be kidding when you compare water with tobacco.

[Carmack]

If you have some time on your hands, here is a large study

http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/brp/tcrb/monographs/9/m9_4.PDF

[LouisMazzini]

Their agenda is let's control every aspect of everyone's life. They use the guise of peoples' health.

I agree with this gent. But more to your issue....it will not matter what scientific study you present. I hate to say that, but such things have entered the political/public policy realm and such proponents have divorced themselves completely of science and to a good extent, common sense. I've had the privilege to work in a cigar shop that is relatively prominent in the states, and have had cardiologists, pulmonologists, psychiatrists, general practitioners, etc., as good repeat customers. I fully believe a solid mind set is what keeps folks alive and kicking. The mind heals the body many a time IMHO. Genetics are certainly a huge factor, but that swings both ways.....non-smokers getting lung cancer at 40....and heavy cigarette smokers living to 90, etc. Winston Churchill is a fine example. Lived to 94 I believe back then before statin meds could save one's ass from high cholesterol, etc. I believe he was 1/2 in the can and smoked 10-12 large cigars (churchills) everyday. The key I think, genetics aside, is to stay mentally engaged in something....anything...and significantly so. I used to work at a shipyard as a mechanic of sorts. lol I'd see guys put in 40-45 years. Retire at 60 or so and then die at 62. There was no more routine to follow, lots of empty time with nothing to fill it.

Anyhow, I will seriously try to find a study, and repost so as to try to contribute to your post of course. That said, CRA should be a good resource as well. Like one gent from CRA in DC said, most folks/politicians and policy makers, etc., don't know the difference between a Marlboro and a Montecristo (something to that affect). I see this issue the same way I see marijauna in some respects...how can you take a "cigar" and measure it's nicotine content objectively and in a standardized fashion? Nevermind the tar, phenols from combustion, etc. There are too many odds and ends. You have swisher sweets with homogenized tobacco leaf on one side, with God know what fillers in between, and then for the sake of one extreme to another...an original Behike from 06 that's hand numbered in an Elie Bleu humidor of 40 each. The myriad cigars in between are way too much to hone in on and dissect...so what's left is a sweeping generalization which doesn't hold up at all in the realm of scientific experiment...and is certainly open to debate in the public arena. All of these comparisons and demonizations of marijuana today (and I don't smoke it and have no real scientific input to deliver on it)...but I think it's safe to suggest that there are going to be serious fluctuations in THC levels given all the hybrid crops and different means of producing it. It's like saying that hydrocodone is a terrible drug. Well, 100mg of hydrocodone at one shot certainly should be a lethal proposition perhaps, but 5-10mg has a therapeutic use and wisely so. Same drug, different strengths, perhaps different esters or chemical composition, etc.

With regard to calling out a professor in the middle of class...I agree it could lead to a negative impact on your GPA....but I hope your professors are better than that and welcome a polite challenge. So long as it is polite and contributive to the class and the debate at hand. They are recognized as experts, testify in court cases as such (determining the livelihood of a stranger), and should reasonably be expected to answer tough questions if respectfully posed. There's a difference of course between trying to sabotage a professor or throwing him/her under the bus which will result in the inevitable human reaction of dismissing the issue at hand entirely and making it a personal affair. Otherwise, with a solid understanding in place, asking away respectfully should be encouraged, and "I don't know, let me look into that and get back to you and the class" should be an acceptable response if an outright educated answer is not provided.

My bottom line on this, and thanks for bearing with me if you've made it this far (LOL!)...is that policy will rule the day. A man used to be a man and get a proper shave and haircut while smoking a cigar amongst his fellow men in the barbershop. Now, instead of that being a normal and expected routine for a man, it has been outlawed or folks have been castigated by an ignorant populace into thinking they've done some ill by acting like a normal friggen male. heh heh. Nowadays, I will have to pay a premium for this kind of service in a rare and expensive "speakeasy" of sorts by amateurs likely, to try to get a glimpse of what my father and grandfather before him looked forward to and would never ever think would be an issue...Dem/Rep/whatever.

Well, I've veered off an on topic and I apologize for that. I'll try to find a useful study soon. But I fear that no matter what....these policy decisions, exactly like the war on drugs, are not intended to end anything or save any children or populace for that matter. It's about control, and these items have become a "currency" so to speak in their own right. Now, drugs and such can work the same as an Andrew Jackson to gain intel, leverage, etc. So you can have the most scholarly stamped study saying cigars are actually good for you and it won't much matter if a certain regime wishes to see it in another light. At the end of the day.....I hate to say it....but follow the money. That's the crux of it.

[LouisMazzini]

you are sticking a pile of burning leaves in your mouth and drawing in smoke. Are you really thinking that there maybe some secret health benefits to this?

stress relief can be achieved in hundreds of other ways that are not as damaging as cigar smoking.

to give a highly exaggerated example, if you get a bad cut on your hand, would you say that snorting a line of coke to ease the pain is the best solutionfor pain management? it will work, but there are healthier and safer approaches.

same with cigars.

I like your posts Shlomo...but yes is the answer.

[shlomo]

"Smoking cigars is hazardous to your health. Period. "

As is drinking bottled water, but as the original post asks....

"Does anyone know of any unbiased research..."

What? Bottled water and cigar smoking? If it is because of that ignoramus Sheryl Crow and her campaign against bishpenol a, she doesn't understand the toxicity level of bpa in ppm (or even ppb, I can't remember right now).

Nobody has ever said "hey, I have an ironman race coming up in an hour, let me smoke a cigar to help me get through it..."

[Dimmers]

Nobody has ever said "hey, I have an ironman race coming up in an hour, let me smoke a cigar to help me get through it..."

Wrong bro, this guy has....

[Guybrush]

If you look at www.cancer.gov you may read:

"Cigar smoke is possibly more toxic than cigarette smoke (3). Cigar smoke has: A higher level of cancer-causing substances [...] More tar [...] A higher level of toxins." "There is no safe level of tobacco use."

http://www.cancer.go.../Tobacco/cigars

All seems to be based on one giant study:

http://www.cancercon...hs/9/index.html

But look at page 6 of this study!

Mortality ratios

Non-Smokers.............. 1,0

1-2 cigars per day........1,02

Compared to cigarettes:

<1 pack................1.46

1 pack..................1.69

>1 pack................1.88

Mortality ratio is only plus 2% for non-inhalative cigar smoking if you smoke 1-2 cigars per day?

Seems random and not significant to me, but I am not an expert.

If you look at coronary heart disease the mortality ratios are:

Non-Smokers.............. 1,0

1-2 cigars per day........0,98

Also 2% but this time in the other direction!

I don't think cigar smoking makes you more healthy.

Again: The 2% seem random and not significant to me, but I am not an expert.

To me this often cited statistic does not seem to prove the danger of moderate cigar smoking at all!

Perhaps an expert can shed light on the matter.