Mixing different marcas (experiment)

[melies]

I'm thinking of making a little experiment.

Through the years I've been reading about not mixing different marcas (or Cuban and non Cuban cigars) in the same humidor and that got me thinking... What would happen if I would make a box of let's say robustos of different marcas and let it rest for a year or so? (Maybe more).

I can imagine that mixing Cuban and NC would affect the flavor because of the NC tendency to mingle with wrappers and so, but what would happen with the flavor and aromas of different habanos interacting with each other?

So here's the experiment:

First if all I would grab a cab of 25 cigars and mix five cigars of five different marcas ln the cab. (I think it would be better to do this in a cab and or humidor than in a box)

I would then smoke the five different cigars and write my impression of each one of those to see what's their profile at this moment. Preferably I would try mix the cigars from the same year/month (factory if possible although that would be extremely hard I guess).

Then I would smoke 1 of each every year and see what difference does it make and if they get affected by the other ones.

So here's the part where I need your help.

1 which vitola would you recommend I use? I was thinking of robustos because of the different marcas that they are available in.

2 how long should I leave them resting between tastings? I was thinking around 6 months to a year in between lighting them.

3 has this been done before and I'm just doing something boring?

4 which marcas should I mix? I want something easy to differentiate how they affect each other.

5 if you are willing to participate in this little experiment, the more the merrier, and it would be great to have different impressions between members

So... That's it! Let me know what you think of this and thanks for your input!

[melies]

I almost forgot, if yo think it would be better to mix only 2 or 3 marcas, I'm willing, so to make an easier comparison between marcas. And also Rob if you would like to be a part of this fun and little experiment and help us build tasting samples, by all means I'm game

[LordAnubis]

Wow, you take cigars very seriously! I jsut smoke mine

THe scientist in me would say go for petitie coronas. You would expect the thinner gauge to "abosrb flavour" quicker.

If i uderstand correctly you were planning on smoking all the by themselves cigars first, then smoke one of the mixed cigars ever year. If i have understodd that, then i think you need to smoke both the mixed cigar and the by itself cigar at the same time (ie one of each every year)

[Smallclub]

Migration of flavours between different habanos in a humidor is an urban legend. I'm afraid you're losing your time and energy.

My desktops contains different marcas, sometimes cigars stay there for years, and I've never noticed the slightest change in profile…

For instance, my smallest desktop is full of Upmann HC, RG Perlas, Quinteros Favoritos, Piedras Petit Caza, all mixed up, and I guarantee you that the profile of these cigars is not changing over the months…

[Jeremy Festa]

Just get the PCC 20th anniversary jar! ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[CaptainQuintero]

If you find the idea fun then go for it, how you enjoy the hobby is up to you!

I think there are far too many variables cigar to cigar to try anything like this and get any meaningful data especially when you're testing taste. Different rollers, different tobacco, different construction, tobacco being a natural product and not exact in its nature etc etc etc not to mention if you eat or drink something different before smoking a cigar or even your mood.

But again if you find the idea enjoyable then go for it!

[jimbo1]

transfer of flavours would take years......now if your talking about an infused, Acid, then you may see a difference after a while, but to me I think it would take 10+ years and there are so many other variables as Captain Q said......of course these are your cigars and if you think you would enjoy doing it, then go for it.

[Ginseng]

Bravo! I applaud you for thinking this through and applying empirical methods to understand a phenomenon that, thus far, falls solidly into the realm of cigar folklore. I think it would be exceptionally constructive to use this thread to address some assumptions we may have about cigars.

May I suggest that you adopt the following (null) hypothesis:

Cigars in physical proximity will adopt sensory characteristics of those around it while at the same time transferring its own to those very same cigars.

In other words, cigars possess compounds that impart sensory characteristics such as aroma and flavor and that these are mobile to a degree, being free to move in and out of the cigar. And by cigar, we actually mean the tobacco leaf.

What are some basic factors or assumptions that you may wish to consider in designing this study?

1. Physical contact is/is not a requirement for this transfer to take place.
   
2. Sensible, detectable transfer will take place in X given time frame.
   
3. Since transfer processes are commonly driven by surface area of contact per volume, thinner cigars should see a more pronounced effect in a shorter period of time. Also, tighter packing should result in faster transfer than loose packing.
   
4. Certain environmental conditions of storage (RH, F/C) are/are not factors that affect the rate or extent of transfer.
   
5. Transfer of certain aspects of flavor are more likely than others (i.e., floral-ness v leathery-ness)
   

And of course, there are more that could be brought to the table but this is a reasonable start. Also, there are a number of practical considerations as well. For example, would a cab or semi-plain or SBN be the preferred container. Or perhaps a totally neutral steel or glass vessel (jar)? Should you rotate the cigar positions?

I would further recommend that you use the fewest number of different cigars possible and choose cigars that span the greatest possible contrast in characteristics. I base this on the fact that if transfer of some sort does occur, it is likely to be extremely subtle.

Again, bravo, for seeking this knowledge for yourself and the community. This is so very essential for keeping the hobby from becoming moribund. Even should you eventually decide not to carry out this study, I think we will have all benefited from the exercise. Anything that engages either or minds or our palates, and preferably both, is a wonderful thing for students and devotees of Habanos.

Wilkey

[Rye]

I've wondered this myself Melies, as some of the "purists" have made comments on the way I store my singles at the bottom of my humi where they all mingle in one great big happy pile. I would love to take part in this somehow and see how it goes!

[jdo2110]

Just 2 cents, and in agreement with the above.

Use smaller cigars, and rotate periodically to

encompass as much of the cigar as you can.

Also, after each year, make sure you smoke one

Of each sample, including it's "unblended" brother. You'd have to consider age as a factor, and how that develops a cigar. You wouldn't want the subtleties that age brings to null what might

have occurred in the marriage.

Lastly, go for it! Whether it's folklore or not, there is nothing to lose. At worst, the cigars get some

Age on them. At best, it does work, and we will all be jealous that you have one of a kind blends ; )

[Optic101]

Just a "thought" / question....., does air pressure (high or low) influence the aging process or aroma transfer ?

For cooking some pro use vacuum to speed up marinating process.

Again, just a question .

[Smallclub]

Just a "thought" / question....., does air pressure (high or low) influence the aging process or aroma transfer ?

What aroma transfer? To my knowledge no one has ever experienced it; it's not even a theory, just a cigar board speculation that is not supported by any evidence… just sayin'…

[kevfi]

If it works, I'm gonna put all my cheap NC's next to my CC's. ;-)

[cigcars]

If it works, I'm gonna put all my cheap NC's next to my CC's. ;-)

[Ginseng]

Just a "thought" / question....., does air pressure (high or low) influence the aging process or aroma transfer ?

For cooking some pro use vacuum to speed up marinating process.

That's a reasonable wonderment and you make a nice connection to a superficially analogous situation.

Mr. Pigfish would likely opine as I do that pressure makes a difference in a great many physicochemical processes of which transpiration, adsorption, and diffusion are examples. On the one hand, raising the pressure (as inside a pressure cooker) would decrease evaporation of volatiles. Whereas, decreasing the pressure would make those volatile compounds (such as aroma molecules) more ready to come out into the air at least. But under these conditions, redeposition and penetration into another piece of tobacco would also be reduced.

As the situation is dynamic with the achievement of some equilibrium state a long way off, I wouldn't even try to guess what the net effect of a pressure manipulation would be. Let's just say it's sufficiently complex and we have so little data or observations that we don't have what we need to formulate a theory. A theory, being, of course, a mental or mathematical model of a phenomenon in the real world. In other words, a way to make sense of the things that are happening around us.

Wilkey

[garbandz]

What aroma transfer? To my knowledge no one has ever experienced it; it's not even a theory, just a cigar board speculation that is not supported by any evidence… just sayin'…

I have done this for decades.I have noticed a real exchange of aromas and flavors among different marcas,especially when some of the sticks are maduro,and the effect is delightful.

When I hand one of mine to a friend and they say how different the stick tastes,it reinforces the evidence. Try it .

[Smallclub]

I have done this for decades.I have noticed a real exchange of aromas and flavors among different marcas,especially when some of the sticks are maduro,and the effect is delightful.

When I hand one of mine to a friend and they say how different the stick tastes,it reinforces the evidence. Try it .

You're talking about NCs. This discussion is about habanos – original post:

I can imagine that mixing Cuban and NC would affect the flavor because of the NC tendency to mingle with wrappers and so, but what would happen with the flavor and aromas of different habanos interacting with each other?

I have no doubt that NC maduro, double maduro, triple maduro dyed wrappers can pollute anything in their vicinity…

[Habanos2000]

My two cents say that the primary enjoyment of a cigar is derived from smoking it. Therefore, unless you're burning the leaves of a different cigar there is very little likely hood that a particular cigar would take on different flavors just because it was in close proximity to others.

I also agree that if you want to conduct the experiment for your own edification that you should go right ahead! Have fun!

[Habana Mike]

If it works, I'm gonna put all my cheap NC's next to my CC's. ;-)

But, but, but......do you want your Habanos to also taste of cheap NC's?

[kevfi]

But, but, but......do you want your Habanos to also taste of cheap NC's?

You must be one of those "the glass is half empty" guys!!! Point taken. Just when I thought I was gonna strike it rich selling Macanudabanos and swisherbanos. You've ruined it all!! ;-)

[Habana Mike]

You must be one of those "the glass is half empty" guys!!! Point taken. Just when I thought I was gonna strike it rich selling Macanudabanos and swisherbanos. You've ruined it all!! ;-)

Actually I am an engineer. The glass is twice the size it should be

Quite interested to see what the observations and conclusions are from this experiment though. Will check back in 2018.....

[kevfi]

Actually I am an engineer. The glass is twice the size it should be

Quite interested to see what the observations and conclusions are from this experiment though. Will check back in 2018.....

2018. Good point. I guess I will keep my swishers and Mac's just in case!!! :-)

[Optic101]

You're talking about NCs. This discussion is about habanos – original post:

I have no doubt that NC maduro, double maduro, triple maduro dyed wrappers can pollute anything in their vicinity…

Does a normal NC leave in that case is different to Cuban leave ?

[Smallclub]

Does a normal NC leave in that case is different to Cuban leave ?

Yes. Cuban wrappers and NC wrappers are quite different. To begin with, ALL premium cuban wrappers are shade grown, and they are from the same type.

[Optic101]

Yes. Cuban wrappers and NC wrappers are quite different. To begin with, ALL premium cuban wrappers are shade grown, and they are from the same type.

Sorry just don't get yet how does this influence flavor transfer ?