Unusual H. Upmann Box; Have you seen similar?

[nivanov]

I was wondering if any of you have seen anything similar to what I recently encountered.

The cigar boxes came from an estate, there were various sealed boxes of H. Upmann cigars, some with the glassine wrappers and all in pristine condition. Just when you thought you have seen it all, I see this box of H. Upmann No. 4's and I am struck that there are a couple of vital things missing.

For starters I don't see the green warranty stamp that I am accustomed to seeing on every Cuban box exported from Cuba, then I turn the box over and there is absolutely nothing on the bottom, what the heck?

Any thoughts?

[SCgarman]

No government seal, no stamps on the bottom? Fake IMO. Maybe Trevor can weigh in

[nivanov]

My question is weather you have seen similar? or can you share photos a similar box?

[Puros Y Vino]

Very odd and near impossible to date properly. Either it's a fake or the box was "taken" out of the line prior to receiving a box code. Maybe something a visitor to the factory procured on the spot way back when? Do you have any other boxes of HU No 4 with the seals to compare it to?

[canadianbeaver]

Found this on eBay, perhaps it will help?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/H-UPMANN-VINTAGE-RARE-COLLECTIBLE-HABANOS-CIGAR-BOX-/310706927342?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48579376ee

[nivanov]

The Ebay item is what you would typically expect to find on a Cuban cigar box of recent vintage, has all of the appropriate markings and stamps, however I am looking to unravel the mystery of the "unmarked" box pictured in the post.

[Smallclub]

No government seal, no stamps on the bottom? Fake IMO.

No stamp on the bottom doesn't prove anything. I have seen several boxes without any box codes in LCDHs and different shops.

The absence of gvnt seal is more worryingly, but it could have fell off from the box… it happened on some of mine…

[canadianbeaver]

Of course. I am just saying how the box is an exact match of the one pictured and not looking fake. And like Smallclub says, the seal could have fallen off.

[nivanov]

Other boxes from the same estate show all of the correct markings and labels, from "Hecho en Cuba" stamp on the bottom seems like the boxes were 1960-1970

[nivanov]

No stamp on the bottom doesn't prove anything. I have seen several boxes without any box codes in LCDHs and different shops.

The absence of gvnt seal is more worryingly, but it could have fell off from the box… it happened on some of mine…

If the warranty stamp fell of it would have left glue residue and on this H. Upmann box, particularly with the white paper top it would have been evident don't you think?

[nivanov]

Of course. I am just saying how the box is an exact match of the one pictured and not looking fake. And like Smallclub says, the seal could have fallen off.

Sorry, I misunderstood, if you find an example of a box without the markings and stamp that would be fantastic!

[canadianbeaver]

Other boxes from the same estate show all of the correct markings and labels, from "Hecho en Cuba" stamp on the bottom seems like the boxes were 1960-1970

LOL I had the same experience when my dad brought me Diplomat edition of Cohibas. The only way to tell if these guys are real is to take them to an expert, cut one open or have them looked at and examined. The roller from Cuba threw his hands in the air and in Spanish, yelled out the equivalent of "Piece of Crap!!!"

[Puros Y Vino]

If the warranty stamp fell of it would have left glue residue and on this H. Upmann box, particularly with the white paper top it would have been evident don't you think?

On a paper box there should be something left behind. On cabinets/wood boxes they tend to fall of cleanly.

[nivanov]

On a paper box there should be something left behind. On cabinets/wood boxes they tend to fall of cleanly.

Agreed!

[nivanov]

_{The bottom of the box has that pencil scribble, that you sometimes see on Cuban boxes, do you see that in the second photo above?}

[Nino]

Of course. I am just saying how the box is an exact match of the one pictured and not looking fake.

While I cannot comment on the OP box, it looks far more legit even w/o the seal and code stamps than the box posted on E-Bay.

That box looks quite fake imo precisely due to the stamp on the bottom and from what I can see - I wouldn't touch it :

[Nino]

_{The bottom of the box has that pencil scribble, that you sometimes see on Cuban boxes, do you see that in the second photo above?}

Exactly - I've had these schribbles or signatures quite often on boxes and it looks good to me - from a distance ;-)

[canadianbeaver]

That's hilarious. The OP's box is real but the eBay one is fake as always. Thanks Nino!

[nivanov]

Exactly - I've had these schribbles or signatures quite often on boxes and it looks good to me - from a distance ;-)

I'm assuming that the only legitimate way to tell is if you try one, right? LOL

[nivanov]

Here's an example of an old Ramon Allones box, note the markings on the bottom.

[Nino]

That's hilarious. The OP's box is real but the eBay one is fake as always. Thanks Nino!

My pleasure as always, Lisa

[nivanov]

Here's a rare example of another unusually marked box, it's rare because of the marca Guantanamo Bay which has become somewhat notorious now, back in 2002 most people did not even know it existed!

[Nino]

Here's an example of an old Ramon Allones box, note the markings on the bottom.

Exactly again - here's a 1960 box of La Cosmopolita ( from MRN's stocks, the cigar was quite good ) top & bottom :

[nivanov]

Believe it or not I thought that the pencil markings on the bottom added legitimacy to the box, would a counterfeiter take the time to make sure that even the minute details were perfect?

[Orion21]

Or counterfeit a box of Upmann No. 4's????