A Blending Question....

[mk05]

You will be rolling this cigar at Prieto's farm and so will be using identical tobacco ie identical wrapper, binder, Ligero, Seco, Volado.

Just curious, does he grow all that? Or just tripa?

[mazolaman]

The other element of the equation that is missing, so far, is the unexplainable variability that comes with Habanos..twocigars rolled by the same roller, on the same day...can be totally different.

This also leads me tothe question I have about robustos...they are rarely as flavourful, or even as strong as a pc...so is their ring gauge just bumped up with pointless filler?

[theholmesmob]

Maths is not my strong suit by any stretch of the imagination.....but if I was to use the same quantities and proportions of ingredients to make beer.....and then bottled the same mix in stubbies and some in longnecks... I would expect it to taste the same from both size bottles.

So I'm of the opinion that I would be smoking the same cigar (or near enough ) that my shot to pieces senses would be unable to discern a difference... My 2 cents....

[Troels]

I would think the robusto would be more balanced. While there is more of each type of tobacco, its more likely a fair share of each components is burning well at any given time during the smoketime. Another reason for thinking the robusto would be more balanced is the fact that the smoke is led through more channels, made by the higher number of leafs in asingle cigar

[Justmi]

The answer is... CRACKED FEET!!!

[CaptainQuintero]

??? There's a difference???

I've always seen strength meaning nicotine levels, the body of a cigar being the intensity/power of flavour

[CanuckSARTech]

...You will be rolling this cigar at Prieto's farm and so will be using identical tobacco ie identical wrapper, binder, Ligero, Seco, Volado.

Just curious, does he grow all that? Or just tripa?

When you say tripa, are you meaning regular filler (versus wrapper and binder)?

Because...ligero, seco, volado - all tobacco has that. It's the different primings of a plant, from top to bottom, and those terms are given to them based on their strength from where they grow on the plant.

Wrapper, binder, filler - basically, shade grown and sun grown dictates the quality grades to assign these "jobs" to given tobaccos, and all tobacco is equally that too. There was the recent video that Andy posted about Prieto's farm, and it's stated on there that he has both shade and sun grown.

[sw15825]

Off topic, but are there any Cubans that are 100% seco filler? There is at least 1 NC (the Illusione Singulare from 2010) that is 100% seco, and it's not only a brilliant cigar, but it remind me a lot of the characteristics and flavors I often get from Habanos.

Good question, I don't know but know some do not have Ligero, from what I have read. One is the Hoyo DC. I would guess that some other lighter cigars would have no ligero either.

Back to topic, I think the Robuso would be more in your face with a larger amount of Ligero.

[Smallclub]

Good question, I don't know but know some do not have Ligero, from what I have read. One is the Hoyo DC.

doesn't make sense. All ligero are not ultra strong or hyper spicy…

Some cigars below a certain ring gauge don't have ligero, it has been discussed here ad nauseam…

[geneticdrifter]

They will not taste the same for two huge reasons:

1) Thinner ring gauges burn hotter, thereby ramping up the body and usually spiciness compared to the fatter stick. In contrast, the 50-rg cigar has a lot more ligero, so it might be quite a bit stronger.

2) The thinner ring cigar has a greater wrapper/filler ratio, which might change the flavor a little, or a ton, depending on the wrapper (some wrappers impart more flavor than others)

The idea that the wrapper only contributes 10% (or less) of flavor to the cigar is ridiculous. I think most professionals who have said that are not referring to two DIFFERENT wrappers when they say 10%, they mean two of the same wrappers (like the same variety of leaf) that are different shades, etc. (i.e. Monte 4 wrappers only account for 10% of the flavor ... compared to other Monte #4 wrappers, not compared to PSD4 wrappers).

Obviously, this would be really easy to show. Just take a few different cigars of the same size and swap wrappers (say, a Montecristo, Party, Bolivar, and LE wrapper) ... take 4 cigars from a box, take the wrappers off of 3 of them and replace them with these other wrappers. Then smoke them all at the same time and compare.

I agree with the first 2 points. Well said.

Clear something up for me with you comment on the 10% issue: If only 10% of a cigar's flavor is decided by its wrapper then no matter what the change in wrapper only 10% of the flavor will be affected, agree or disagree?

[samreddevilz]

Complex Math! I better be away from it. lol!

Greetings to Stargazer for this amazing attachment. haha.....

[anacostiakat]

No. They will not taste the same. The robusto will be much stronger.

[polarbear]

Prez, is there a correct answer or is this like a "what's the sound of one hand clapping" kinda question?

I've read through all the posts and while there have been some very informative answers my head is now also hurting me...

[canadianbeaver]

I think the "beginning, middle and end" factor ( my words) make a big difference between the robusto and the PC, even with the same contents. This is not math or deep knowledge, but personal experience. A larger cigar has a longer and different story for the smoke.

[El Presidente]

Cheers to all

I can't give you a definitive answer so sorry to disappoint.

what I can tell you is that I did this in blending for some upcoming customs (they could be here in 2 weeks...2 months or 2 years..who in hell knows with Cuba as timeframes and agreements apparently have as much logic as Big Foot or Alien Anal probes).

I supervised the experiment as closely as I could. I stood there. I detailed the blends and watched to ensure the cigars (5 of each) were rolled to spec. We then passed them around.

To my surprise, the Petit Corona was way stronger than the Robusto and found to be so amongst each of the 5 tasters.

When I asked for the reason, I received a host of answers most of which I discounted (no offence intended, but it didn't make sense) except for the roller (72 years of age), who pointed out that air/oxygen flow plays a part.

To translate and paraphrase

" You here all smoke the same way. You don't slow down your draws to accommodate a Petit Corona compared to a Robusto format.

You are burning the Petit corona hotter than the Robusto because the oxygen/air intake is disproportionate to the gauge of the cigars"

Blow and behold...we rolled them again to the same blend and smoked them again and really slowing down the PC draw.

Result: both were much the same in terms of strength, body and flavor.

Definitive...no. Educational...absolutely (at least for me).

[polarbear]

Thanks Prez

Very interesting

Can't wait for the customs to hit the shelves

[mazolaman]

Very interesting Rob, I guess that explanation makes sense....as we all know smoking a monte carlo,say, too fast ruins the flavour...

Anyway, you've also discovered the names for your customs....Big Foot, and the Alien Anal Probe......

I'd buy em....

[MPS]

Fantastic insight!

[Phillys]

Interesting, must have been a great experience. Now you say there will be FoH customs available, can't wait!

[orangedog]

Very interesting Rob, I guess that explanation makes sense....as we all know smoking a monte carlo,say, too fast ruins the flavour...

Anyway, you've also discovered the names for your customs....Big Foot, and the Alien Anal Probe......

I'd buy em....

Rob needs more tattoos and a hardcore-themed entourage of accessories to be able to pull off names like that.......

[anacostiakat]

Surprising. . .

[Roanoke]

Cheers to all

I can't give you a definitive answer so sorry to disappoint.

what I can tell you is that I did this in blending for some upcoming customs (they could be here in 2 weeks...2 months or 2 years..who in hell knows with Cuba as timeframes and agreements apparently have as much logic as Big Foot or Alien Anal probes).

I supervised the experiment as closely as I could. I stood there. I detailed the blends and watched to ensure the cigars (5 of each) were rolled to spec. We then passed them around.

To my surprise, the Petit Corona was way stronger than the Robusto and found to be so amongst each of the 5 tasters.

When I asked for the reason, I received a host of answers most of which I discounted (no offence intended, but it didn't make sense) except for the roller (72 years of age), who pointed out that air/oxygen flow plays a part.

To translate and paraphrase

" You here all smoke the same way. You don't slow down your draws to accommodate a Petit Corona compared to a Robusto format.

You are burning the Petit corona hotter than the Robusto because the oxygen/air intake is disproportionate to the gauge of the cigars"

Blow and behold...we rolled them again to the same blend and smoked them again and really slowing down the PC draw.

Result: both were much the same in terms of strength, body and flavor.

Definitive...no. Educational...absolutely (at least for me).

Can you put some numbers on how slow is slow? One draw per minute? I've heard that rule of thumb before but never really found it to be universal. The geek in me is crying out for definitive data! Excellent thread, by the way.

[Dbone]

Yes, that does make sense. I'm still having a difficult time understanding how tobacco can burn hotter in one cigar vs another. I'd imagine all tobacco burns at the same temperature. It has a flash point and burns. However, the rate of burn can change depending on how much fuel it's fed.

[canadianbeaver]

Matthew and I are very fast smokers apparently. Not sure why. But I do think when I choose a PC vs a Robusto of the same Marca, there will be a different smoke thing going on. Then again, my "smoke trance" might just be longer in the bigger stick.