A Blending Question....

[El Presidente]

One for weekend discussion by members

You have to roll two cigars, One cigar being a Robusto (50 gauge) and One Cigar being a Petit Corona (42gauge)

You will be rolling this cigar at Prieto's farm and so will be using identical tobacco ie identical wrapper, binder, Ligero, Seco, Volado.

You will be using exact filler proportions for each cigar: 33 1/3% each of Ligero, Seco, Volado.

Question:

Will they taste the same.....ie, flavor/body/strength.

Why or why not?

[Smallclub]

I think that the robusto will be overwhelming; 33.3% of ligero in a 50rg is a lot!

[PaulP]

The ratio of wrapper area to filler and binder will be different in each cigar based on simple geometry and thus they will taste differently.

[maduro]

I don't think they will taste the same.

With the petit robusto I would think you would taste more of the wrapper leaf.

Just my humble opinion .

Also small club has a valid point 33% ligero might posses enough "hutspa" to make you feel green in the gills.

[CaptainQuintero]

The Partagas sdc #3 was blended from a single leaf of Ligero, Seco and Volado or some such other equal part blend right?

[CanuckSARTech]

Oh gawd....more math...

[oliverdst]

Assuming the cut will be the same or at least will not interfere in taste I don't think they will have the same flavour.

Every puff will come with a different amount of smoke and tobacco temperature.

I think they will not taste the same

[1LegLance]

Well it would be tough to make it exactly 33 1/3% of seco/volado/ligero as you are dealing with whole leaves and there are a differnt number of leaves to roll a 42rg vs 50rg. Thus the reason a blend is more 1 ligero, 3 volado, 3 seco to get a taste.

But using the concept of the question to make us think we will suspend reality and go with the idea that we could divide the mix exactly.

Also the amount of wrapper pretty close as a percentage of the whole I think ,,,,,but I am itching to go home and cut up a robusto & PC just to count the leaves in side and then do the math to figure out cubic volume and wrapper sqaure inch coverage to figure out thing exactly.

But I would say that if you could get the mix exactly 1/3 of each then yes the sticks would taste very much the same....the fact that they don't is due to the blenders art and the difference in leave count even if they try to keep them the same.

Great question and I can't wait to get home and cut open some sticks.

[cigcars]

I think the PC will smoke hotter and stronger than the robusto. I also think the robusto will be reasonably great with body, depth and mellow to medium bodied strength.

[DrunkenMonkey]

I think if the ratios could be kept the same, which is the assumption, then the cigars will taste the same.

[IcedCanuck]

I would not think they would taste the same. Even though the ratio may the same there will be a lot more tobacco in the robusto then the petit corona. I would expect them to taste similar though and I would also expect that as the cigar was smoked the flavours would progressively become more and more different from one another.

[kuzi16]

most of the flavor of a cigar comes from the wrapper.

the people above hit the nail on the head when they referenced wrapper to filler ratio.

also, if all the filler percentages are kept the same the ligero will have a tendency to overpower the other leaves in the blend. it actually takes more viso and seco to keep the taste the same the larger the ring.

think of it in terms of sound:

if one sound is strong (loud) it will overpower the quieter noises. adding more loud noises only drowns out the quieter more.

i mean, this really is the job of the master blender. they maked sure that all vitolas are balanced.

[laficion]

I would think that they would be different due to the two sizes but the most inprotant difference would be the ring gauge

difference for the two cigars, even if they both come from Prieto's farm.And even if they have the same propotions of Tobacco for both

cigars.

Guy

[Ryan]

With a robusto at 50 rg and the petit corona at 42rg the proportion of wrapper and binder to filler (volado, seco and ligero) will be 19% higher in the petit corona. If my maths is right.

So regarding wrapper differences, if you believe the wrapper accounts for 50% of flavour, that about a 10% difference (19% of 50) in the cigar.

If you think the wrapper accounts for 10% then there would be about a 2% difference.

I think narrower cigars need a higher proportion of volado though as volado affects burn and burn affects flavour.

[jedipastor]

They will not taste the same for two huge reasons:

1) Thinner ring gauges burn hotter, thereby ramping up the body and usually spiciness compared to the fatter stick. In contrast, the 50-rg cigar has a lot more ligero, so it might be quite a bit stronger.

2) The thinner ring cigar has a greater wrapper/filler ratio, which might change the flavor a little, or a ton, depending on the wrapper (some wrappers impart more flavor than others)

The idea that the wrapper only contributes 10% (or less) of flavor to the cigar is ridiculous. I think most professionals who have said that are not referring to two DIFFERENT wrappers when they say 10%, they mean two of the same wrappers (like the same variety of leaf) that are different shades, etc. (i.e. Monte 4 wrappers only account for 10% of the flavor ... compared to other Monte #4 wrappers, not compared to PSD4 wrappers).

Obviously, this would be really easy to show. Just take a few different cigars of the same size and swap wrappers (say, a Montecristo, Party, Bolivar, and LE wrapper) ... take 4 cigars from a box, take the wrappers off of 3 of them and replace them with these other wrappers. Then smoke them all at the same time and compare.

[jedipastor]

Off topic, but are there any Cubans that are 100% seco filler? There is at least 1 NC (the Illusione Singulare from 2010) that is 100% seco, and it's not only a brilliant cigar, but it remind me a lot of the characteristics and flavors I often get from Habanos.

[Esteban77]

This is for all of the non-math people. If we assume that the thickness of a tobacco leaf is 1/64 inch, we can make ratio formula of the wrapper/binder to filler: ratio = ∏r₁²h - ∏r₂²h / ∏r₂²h. The radius of a petit corona is 0.329in and a robusto is 0.39in which is r₁. r₂ is r₁ - 0.031in because we subtract out the thickness of the two leaves. The length of a petit corona is 5.1in and a robusto is 4.9in. Thus, a peptit corona has 1.2 times more tobacco in the wrapper/binder than a robusto, therefore the wrapper/binder will add more flavor to the petit corona. The two cigars will taste different.

Esteban77

[Duxnutz]

I really picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.

[stargazer14]

[poorman]

You will be rolling this cigar at Prieto's farm and so will be using identical tobacco ie identical wrapper, binder, Ligero, Seco, Volado.

I'm not allowed to go to Prieto's farm.

[petey]

I feel the whole ligero thing is overblown as far as power is concerned, to me it's more of a full bodied mouth feel than it is a strength thing.

[cigaraholic]

I'm not of the opinion that PC's burn hotter than robustos/road flares.

I think the cigars will taste very similar but the PC will.....as always.... deliver more flavor.

[Smallclub]

most of the flavor of a cigar comes from the wrapper.

[cigcars]

I feel the whole ligero thing is overblown as far as power is concerned, to me it's more of a full bodied mouth feel than it is a strength thing.

??? There's a difference???

[Pilsner14]

Is there a Friends of Mathamatician's Forum? Good question though, honestly.

JD