Plugged Cohiba 1966's

[Diamondog]

Get yourself a draw tool, they really work well. Granted you shouldnt have to use one but when you have one and it fixes the draw you'll be glad you had it!

[LGC]

Take away the Cohiba band and boxes, and leave only the EL band. Smoking the cigars blindly... how many repeat customer do you think there would be?

[CanuckSARTech]

This a interesting topic,EL'S and RE'S included, HSA produces Cigars that go from absolutely Sublime to the good bad and the ugly

All Marques and price points inclusive ,as rob states this shouldn't be so ,HSA still has someway to go in the terms of consistent quality.

To me it seems to come in fits and starts, good one time bad the other ,but that having been said they have got better in recent years

I think as much as we hate things like this, for the time being I think we just have to put it down as this is the way things are at the moment

I have seen some bad days in the history of the CC and I hate inconsistency especially when you pay good money.

But I believe that HSA are slowly heading in the right direction

Plus I buy mainly from Rob ,so I get the best possible chance of quality

Cheers

Very well put, Steve. I really agree with this thought.

A decent amount of members on here weren't smoking cigars during the late 90's / early turn-of-the-century. Quality issues were MUCH more prevalent. And, it was just what is was - not as much of an online community presence or online retailer presence to ***** and moan and give feedback to. If you bought a bad cigar from a B&M, a lot really depended on your relationship with them, as to what sort of solution you'd get (most likely, in Canada, tough, as most only bought singles). And if you bought from Cuba direct, and then got home with problem sticks, good luck in sorting that out.

Back then, even your "regular run of the mill" cigars were having massive issues. Like, almost a 50% crap rate on simple stuff like RyJ Romeo 2's, or Monte 4's, or Partagas deLuxe, etc. Now, the problems are much much less, but yes, we're going to see issues with the mass produced stuff. And, as much as the marketing says otherwise, the LE stuff is generally mass produced. They roll a lot in a very short time period, as especially when it's a Cohiba offering or such, it's a very high profit-point cigar to get out there.

And just because a retailer is trusted, doesn't mean squat about getting good sticks. Sometimes people miss that point. I have four other retailers I use aside from Czar's, and aside from me hand-picking myself down in Cuba. There's certain cigars that I won't even dream of getting at other vendors that myself hand-picking or Czar's hand-picking for me (and only in HQ or PSP levels). That's not to say I don't trust those vendors - I do. However, whether or not they hand-pick and test the quality of the cigars, is a deciding factor. You can ask just about any vendor if the quality is good, and you may just get a generic statement of what they've seen in the past few weeks or months. But then, a miscellaneous other clerk fulfills your order, and grabs a box from the shelf that no one's opened up or really quality checked. And yes, these checks should be done in Cuba before leaving, and crap shouldn't be getting through. But we all know it does, like it or not, and H S.A. still makes money with the status quo, so they have no pressure to change. With the mass produced stuff like Cohiba, Montecristo, Partagas, etc. especially, a hand-picked box makes all the difference. Certain Trinidad or QdO or RA stuff I will buy blind, depending on past history with a vendor. But even if I trust that vendor, if they're not personally and assuredly vouching for that particular box, then it's a crap shoot.

No, I'm not really saying to "out your vendors" here, as to who got what from where. But I seriously do think that where you got some of these bad 1966's may speak volumes about that retailer's quality perhaps. Even though it's a high price-point LE or Cohiba offering, like it or not, sometimes you can't expect PSP quality, if you go for PE or non-graded/non-hand-picked selections from other vendors. Maybe you might have picked the best of the bunch yourself at a B&M vendor, or even direct down in Cuba (or perhaps you had mules grab them for you). But, are your selections on quality not up to par, or that of your mules? A lot does depend on the selection. There's definitely a Bell curve to be had when it comes to cigars like this, especially when to meet market demand, they're rolled at multiple factories in a short timeline with varying batches of tobacco (which all affects overall quality averaged).

Get yourself a draw tool, they really work well. Granted you shouldnt have to use one but when you have one and it fixes the draw you'll be glad you had it!

Agreed. Glad I've only had to really use mine once since 2010 though! LOL. An expensive one-time-tool, but glad to have it around if I ever start needing it again!

EDIT - sorry, had a double-post here. My bad.

[CaptainQuintero]

I don't think legitimacy is a question here to be honest, just the usual CQ issues.

For example I bet Rob and other retailers could pick out some boxes of current Cohiba lanceros, Esplendidos, Robusto and Siglo VI that are of the very worst quality (The ones he sends back) and people would be shocked at just how crap some of the stuff from the flagship marca can be. If a blind tasting of this 'worst of the best' was organised I bet some people would claim fakes/high end fakes etc etc too

I think this just shows how important it is to judge the market (ie first releases) and have trusted vendors or be able to pick cigars out for yourself.That being said, all the 1966 I've tried were first release and tasted like jumbo piedras shame really because it would be nice to have had the same experience that others have had of them

[mk05]

Trading has always been a route to unload one's problematic or disliked sticks...for some. You just have to know who you are trading with.

Why knowingly sends out plugged or bad sticks when you're going to get a bad rep? Makes no sense to me. Is it that worthwhile for just a fiver? And for those who say they have no clue, you are either delusional or feigning ignorance. You know exactly which ones are good, and which ones are bad. It reeks of dishonesty in your writing.

Shame.

[ramon_cojones]

Same, i've not examined sticks I give out or trade with friends I pick blindly from my box. Feigning ignorance? Hardly.

Do cigar smokers really do this? I couldn't imagine anyone intentionally handing out dubious sticks.

[CanuckSARTech]

I don't always know when one stick will be tight or not. I am far, far, from experienced enough to be able to tell this just by the look of the foot or the feel of the stick. I have sent out some sticks that people have told me were very tight, heck I even sent out one stick that had beetles. I did not do it purposefully. So accusing people of being delusional or liars is pretty strong and far, FAR, off the mark.

Agreed. Mark, your post seems a bit off....

However, maybe as a distraction from Mark's post, but to the heart a bit of this thread I think....

Shlomo, if, as you state above, your quality-checking skills are not up to par, then why is it that you're always bagging on the quality of the higher-end sticks, whether you're smoking them or not? I vaguely remember you saying a long time ago that you'd never buy any 1966's, or other Cohiba or LE products recently, etc., when they first came out, and you bag them for their pricepoint and inability to live up to expectations, etc. (usually before you've even tried them yourself). But then here you are on this thread, stating you've had a few singles, but then have also got two boxes sourced direct from Cuba (presumably from mules, as I don't recollect you saying you've recently gone there since their release, but I could be wrong).

So if you haven't got these from retailers that have the skill and experience to do proper hand-picks for you, and haven't therefore paid for that service, but at the same time state that you don't have the skills to do so yourself, then why do you bag on these right out of the gate (and continually), and on those who get good sticks because of using the resources at their disposal?

I'm truely not trying to poke, or start an argument here - this has just got me seriously interested. To me, this speaks a lot of reverse-elitist behaviour (as in, let's bag on the name brand stuff, 'cause we're the underdogs). To me, anyways, it seems that if some of the name brand / LE / RE / special release fans on here were to bag on the "underrated" and/or C&C product lines (JLP, Quintero, RG's, etc.), then the community would be up in arms.

[ramon_cojones]

The first paragraph seems tangential to this thread and from what I gather, a prospective buyer should have an experienced professional pick out ultra premium sticks hence caveat emptor when buying them? Part of the premium is the perceived consistency but according to your post that is not to be expected even at this price point am I right? Very confused.

[mk05]

Apologies, I thought it was pretty standard practice. Here's a blurb on how to test it:

Cuban cigars are rolled entubado, meaning the tobacco is rolled like little straws with a cap on one end, circulating any air that may go in one side. So if you suck the bottom half of the foot, you should get draw which flows in from the top half of the foot in an unplugged cigar.

As for the crappy cigars...Whether it be trading or gifting, don't you want the best to represent you? Why would you send out crappy, flaky wrappered, knotted, or flat cigars? You've smoked some out of the box, you know what to expect. Do the test, smoke some, and send out the best, or don't send out at all if it sucks! ie sending cigars that are clipped at the end. WTF is that all about? Listen...there's no "lemon" rule in cigars; no recourse in trade. The other party tells you or writes about how bad a cigar was. You rub it off as, "that's Cuba." So now he has a sour taste for the transaction and perhaps the cigar he wanted to try, and maybe will stay away from it for a while. You - most likely knowingly - or "unknowingly" partook in his sour experience, and you should feel bad about that. But hey, you probably ended up with nicer sticks right? Sorry, I get burned on "trades" and see many bad cigars be passed around for my liking. This problem is long standing, and I'm sure the older guys don't trade openly for this reason...they just don't talk about it.

As for walking the walk, I do give out the best of what I have, and I'm sure people would back me up on that if it came to it. Because that's how it's supposed to be!

[coug28]

Apologies, I thought it was pretty standard practice. Here's a blurb on how to test it:

Cuban cigars are rolled entubado, meaning the tobacco is rolled like little straws with a cap on one end, circulating any air that may go in one side. So if you suck the bottom half of the foot, you should get draw which flows in from the top half of the foot in an unplugged cigar.

As for the crappy cigars...Whether it be trading or gifting, don't you want the best to represent you? Why would you send out crappy, flaky wrappered, knotted, or flat cigars? You've smoked some out of the box, you know what to expect. Do the test, smoke some, and send out the best, or don't send out at all if it sucks! ie sending cigars that are clipped at the end. WTF is that all about? Listen...there's no "lemon" rule in cigars; no recourse in trade. The other party tells you or writes about how bad a cigar was. You rub it off as, "that's Cuba." So now he has a sour taste for the transaction and perhaps the cigar he wanted to try, and maybe will stay away from it for a while. You - most likely knowingly - or "unknowingly" partook in his sour experience, and you should feel bad about that. But hey, you probably ended up with nicer sticks right? Sorry, I get burned on "trades" and see many bad cigars be passed around for my liking. This problem is long standing, and I'm sure the older guys don't trade openly for this reason...they just don't talk about it.

As for walking the walk, I do give out the best of what I have, and I'm sure people would back me up on that if it came to it. Because that's how it's supposed to be!

This may come as a surprise, but this thread wasn't ever about you. Nor anyone else who posted in here. It was about cigars. Overpriced EL cigars, with tight draws.

As for testing draws, that's all well and good, but even if it works, that doesn't change the fact that you still own tightly rolled cigars. Unless of course you buy cigars in person and store owners don't mind you sucking on the feet of their inventory.

[BRAC]

I've had one 1966 out of the single box I purchased. It was a firm draw, but not plugged. Still smokeable.

I have to admit to being a bit underwhelmed overall though. For the price, I was expecting much more. I'm hoping that cigar was one of the lesser examples out of the box.

[KB24]

Fellas,

Let me say a couple things I didn't mention in the original post. The cigars were originally from a very well respected BOTL on this forum who purchased them on a trip to Cuba. He then sold some to another BOTL at a herf. When I made the trade I did so with the option to return if I felt they were too plugged. I knew they were going to be tight but not as tight as they ended up being.

I'm just upset that you pay such a high price and there's a chance you get unsmokable cigars. This is the reason I've been smoking more NC's lately. Less money and almost guaranteed construction.

Id love to smoke a smokable 1966 but don't see that happening soon.

-Patrick

[El Presidente]

As for testing draws, that's all well and good, but even if it works, that doesn't change the fact that you still own tightly rolled cigars. Unless of course you buy cigars in person and store owners don't mind you sucking on the feet of their inventory.

[El Presidente]

I re-pinned the plug rate poll. it is improving which is a good thing.

I would guess 80% of all Cohiba 1966 draw well. I would expect 99.9 % of them to do so. That isn't going to happen anytime soon. I haven't heard the same complaints with the Monte 520 or Behike. Not quite sure why? Intriguing.

[sengjc]

Not many 520s have been smoked to date given that it only got released?

[BMWFan]

I have gone thru 2 and a half boxes of 1966s and everyone has been super, with an excellent draw as well. I hope my luck with this particular vitola continues as they have been everything I want in a special occasion smoke.

[Dimmers]

From my relatively small sample size of several 1966's conquered - all have had stellar contruction/ draw. All bar one (most recent 6 weeks back) have been stellar cigars flavour-wise (from 2 seperate boxes (JUN & JUL 2011) plus 2 unknown boxed singles).

[El Presidente]

Not many 520s have been smoked to date given that it only got released?

I think you will find plenty have smoked the 520 given it is a cigar that generally has smoked exceptionally well when young.

[sengjc]

I think you will find plenty have smoked the 520 given it is a cigar that generally has smoked exceptionally well when young.

Well then, this must mean HSA's efforts to improve quality overall must be working.

[hanhan]

Gone through 2 and half boxes of 1966 already. zero plugged. Cigars were between good to fantastic. Sorry to hear you have problems with these but I am a big fan of this cigar. The merely good ones were probably because the cigar has gone to sleep. Not planning on smoking the rest of my stock of this particular vitola for a few years.

since the taste doesn't seem to be the problem, have you tried dry boxing?

[CaptainQuintero]

I think the BHK point is great as they both seem to be on the same level of expected quality. Personally I've never had a bhk that wasn't perfectly constructed, but I know some people have been nothing but let down with the BHK but loved their 1966. Just luck of the draw I guess.

I guess we have to look at the Esplendido and Lancero, surely the top two cigars in the whole HSA catalogue in terms of expectation of prestige, but how many crap boxes of both are shipped out of Cuba? Im guessing a much higher % than BHK or 1966

[orangedog]

Cuba has been using draw testers for a few years now, no?

I've had one 1966 that was almost plugged. I just dry box them now.

Maybe Suckling was right about quality going down 2012+.......

[CaptainQuintero]

I think generally quality has been improving every year still, it's just we expect more now we have become used to that trend, especially with the higher end releases.

[CanuckSARTech]

...Maybe Suckling was right about quality going down 2012+.......

Which is funny/weird/ironic, as I just read a few things lately (and remember seeing mention of it around online in articles and reviews) that with the BHK line especially, mid-2012 and onwards seems to be a huge improvement. Kind of like how the OR / early-2010 BHK sticks wowed most people, but then with the massive production swing to meet demand with the 2011 production (and the rumours/thoughts of no/less medio tempo leaf usage during that year) which led to 2011 being somewhat of a let-down year for most with the BHK stuff.

I myself have never smoked the 2010 releases - it's been mid-/late-2011 stuff, or early and late 2012 stuff. And my sample volume hasn't been high enough (just barely double figures). But it does seem like 2011 was a bit of a downtrend for these higher value offerings then.

But 2012 definitely looks to be a huge improvement, and not a downtrend - I don't remember hearing / reading that anywhere? Last I thought he made mention of it, I believe he was talking about 2012 being one of the best years on record?

[CanuckSARTech]

I am pretty sure I sent you one as part of the trade for the cutter last year Keith. Not ABR, But it was 2010, I am almost positive.

No, close, but no cigar. I had looked some of these up in my Cigar Dossier - yours was a Nov. 2011 "MES" one (from the info you gave me at the time), with me giving it a 92 rating, and one of the only decently good 2011 ones I had. I smoked it last October (so not even a year on it), and it met expectations, but definitely could have benefitted from more age. While not a huge fan of these from 2011, I'm going to start looking to maybe get some decent stock of 2012 BHK 54's I think (the 52's and the 56's just aren't my cuppa tea).