Rum Tasting: HC Barrel Proof vs Seleccion de Maestros

[Ryan]

For the last couple of years I’ve noticed quite a few discussions regarding these two rums, on this forum and others, whether Seleccion de Maestros (SdM) is just Barrel Proof (BP) relaunched or if it is a new product.

Actually the first time I remember talking about this was at a lunch in La Barca in Havana hosted by Hunters and Frankau during the festival in 2011.

I noticed the Seleccion de Maestros on sale in the restaurant, it was the first time I had seen it and I asked one of the waiters if I could have a look at a bottle, I thought I was quite clear with my “solo para ver”. There were about 30 of us at the lunch and the next thing I saw was 2 bottles of the stuff being opened for 30 glasses. Seeing the Hunters bods scramble around for the extra 280 CUCs for the booze made it all the sweeter.

Anyway, at that lunch, somebody was telling me how the SdM tasted different to the BP. Smoother, less heat, etc.

So finally I got around to organising a tasting. It wasn’t blind, we all knew what the two rums were as the whole point was to see if there was a difference between them, not how good they are.

We did a triangular tasting, two of one and one of the other. This cuts the odds of simply guessing correctly down to 33% from 50%.

We had our usual place sort out 18 identical glasses with labels 1 to 18 on them.

Two tests were done. The first with three glasses of neat rum and a second round with one cube of ice in each glass with the rum.

Unfortunately our usual volunteer guinea pig for this stuff, Yiorgos, wasn’t available so we put together an “expert” panel.

Rum drinkers extraordinare Rob Fox, Stuart Fox and Harry Leech. Me. Rafael Agapito, founder member of the Irish Rum Society and has recently launched his own Cachaça brand and, at the last minute, Chris Binchy, former chef and food critic for the Sunday Tribune here.

Barrel Proof has been around a while. I started buying a couple of bottles a year on my travels, not that it’s my favourite rum, it’s that I can find it cheap.

Seleccion de Maestros, I haven’t had too often. A few times over the last 2 years and only in Cuba until now.

Both rums are bottled at 45% vol. and, having a close look, are exactly the same colour.

I poured for everyone else, Rob poured for me and we got down to it. Some people took tasting notes, Stuart wrote an essay, others just marked down flavours/differences.

Here are the results.

As you can see from the chart, none of us got it right in the first round, though I did guess the odd one out. I could absolutely put that down to luck.

In the second round with ice, Stuart and Harry got it right. Although at 2 out of 6, that’s well within statistical error. Given 3 glasses of similar looking liquid with one odd one out, just guessing will get it right 33% of the time.

Anyway, since two got it right in the second round, we tried it again, with ice, for those two.

Both of them in the third round got it wrong again, guessing the incorrect glass as the odd one out.

So, while I’m not expecting this to settle anything regarding these 2 rums, I think it shows that when it comes down to it, there is no discernible difference between the two.

As far as any of us could tell, it’s the same rum.

For anybody who has found a difference, I do know that perception and expectation can play a large role in experiencing flavours.

If you don't believe me, organise a tasting and see.

It was a fun night, I like this stuff, we did a tasting a while ago which was a double blind triangle tasting of 2 cigars. That showed very interesting results which I must get around to posting up here.

Stuart's final tasting comment from the night, "the first round has me half cut but all are better than Budweiser"..

[yiorgosm]

Great stuff Andy, I am sorry I missed it!

[CanuckSARTech]

Well done, Andy.

Back in February 2011 or so, when I just got back from a trip with some friends and my wife and I, I remember putting up a thread/posts about this rum, and it just coming out (it was just released in January 2011). For the life of me, I can't find all the details, or remember them (maybe one too many glasses of rum over the years already?!).

But, I remember talking with the lady at the La Casa del Ron store, or whatever it was. I'm 90% sure that she was an actual, uniformed, Havana Club rep as well, not just a store clerk. I asked her about this Seleccion compared to the Barrel Proof. And she told me that it was just a rebranding, a repackaging of the same rum. Basically, that the Seleccion de Maestros is just a hand-chosen, blended version of a particular "maestros" personal interpretation of the best of the barrels from the Barrel Proof stock. Same stuff, all produced and batched the same. (She wasn't able to positively tell me if this new higher-priced bottling was/would replace the "standard" Barrel Proof stuff). But just for bottling and packaging purposes, it's just first-choice / blended Barrel Proof rum.

Glad to see that your guys' group tasting relatively proved it as such (or maybe proved it as unchanged, in essence, since release in early 2011 then).

[Ken Gargett]

it is a small world. by an odd chance, i asked this very question of a brisbane retailer yesterday. my understanding was that they were the same rum just repackaged, but he felt that the seleccion was slightly more oaky.

i will try and find out more, though not sure pernod ricard would provide too much on it.

[Strada]

thats a great experiment. I really like the SDM but never tasted the Barrel proof.

Ken, keep us posted!

[Cohiba Stevie]

Well done andy, I really need to make more effort to get down to one of the Dublin herfs...

As I said in your discussion in the alcoholics not so anonymous forum I have always known these two rums are the same.

It's still one of the best rums available in my opinion.

[stargazer14]

thats a great experiment. I really like the SDM but never tasted the Barrel proof.

Sounds like you already have!

Nice work Ryan.

[Jszeto]

Very enjoyable to read, thanks.

[riazp]

Exellent writeup as usuall Ryan, I've been lead to beleive as well that SdM and BP were essentially the same thing just rebranded...

[Ken Gargett]

got a response re the differences. turns out they are slightly different. this is the info.

"The Seleccion de Maestros is based on the Cuban Barrel Proof – with some slight differences. The rum is a blend of some of the best aged aguardiente of over 10yrs old and blended with some older rums between 15 and 17 yrs old. The final blend is also returned to young oak barrels to ‘awaken’ the rum before bottling at 45% ABV.

I have noticed some differences between the CBP and SDM – the latter appearing deeper and richer in mouthfeel, fuller body, beautiful complexity with the signature Havana Club long, yet dry finish."

[Ryan]

got a response re the differences. turns out they are slightly different. this is the info.

"The Seleccion de Maestros is based on the Cuban Barrel Proof – with some slight differences. The rum is a blend of some of the best aged aguardiente of over 10yrs old and blended with some older rums between 15 and 17 yrs old. The final blend is also returned to young oak barrels to ‘awaken’ the rum before bottling at 45% ABV.

I read stuff similar to that too. Also that the SdM is a blend of the best rums chosen by 6 of the top "roneros", thus the name "Seleccion de Maestros".

If it really is a new blend, they've done a good job keeping it precisely the same colour as the Barrel Proof.

Have you tried a side-by-side tasting Ken?

Here are some release notes I found.

http://www.moodiereport.com/document.php?c_id=31&doc_id=25417

At one point it says "Test-launched in some markets as Havana Club Cuban Barrel Proof, the newly named Selección de Maestros has already been recognised as an ultra-premium rum".

The article gives hints to its own source. Stuff like "A neck tag label further highlights its rich Cuban roots" sounds very like a lot of the bizarre, unintentionally funny marketing I've heard at new cigar launches at the festivals. It's not the kind of stuff written by a non-Cuban journalist.

[Ken Gargett]

Have you tried a side-by-side tasting Ken?

hi ryan, no i have not. would be an interesting exercise. unfortunately i have finished all my barrel proof i think so have nothing to compare with the sellecion.

[compitaveggie]

I also talked to a rep that was at the HC museum in Havana in 2011. They were stavking bottles and deciding how to male it presentable. When I forst noticed the different bottle I asked our tour guide that told me ask the rep setting up the displays. The rep told me it was exactly the same just a marketing move, change the bottle, change the name to something more fancy, add a nice story with it, and then raise the price. The guy said nothing in the process of making it changes. I have both bottles but I am way to new to note any differences from different rums let alone each other.

[Ryan]

hi ryan, no i have not. would be an interesting exercise. unfortunately i have finished all my barrel proof i think so have nothing to compare with the sellecion.

Get yourself over to Dublin! We'll organise another one.

Is Barrel Proof still available anywhere near you or is it all gone now?

If the shipping prices aren't nanners to Brisbane, I'll get a bottle down to you.

In the interest of science.

[Ken Gargett]

Get yourself over to Dublin! We'll organise another one.

Is Barrel Proof still available anywhere near you or is it all gone now?

i have not seen it for a while.

[Ryan]

One of the interesting stories from the festival. Yiorgos came over to me in Espacios after the Wednesday night event, I had been at the Palacio de Artisania event with a friend, and told me that he had met somebody interesting, Alexandr of Pernod Ricard, Activation Manager for Havana Club rums.

Yiorgos described the tasting we had done, apparently Alexandr found it very interesting and replied "why would you have noticed a difference? It's the same rum."

I met Alexandr myself at the Women's International cigar event on the Friday where he confirmed again but not on video. At that event there was a speech given by the first "Maestra Ronera",  Salomé Carriazo. The first female master of rum in Cuba. There are only 7 "Maestros Roneros" in Cuba at any one time. After her speech she asked for any questions. The first was from Rob Fox, "what's the difference between Havana Club Barrel Proof and Seleccion de Maestros". "There is no difference" was her reply. Again, I missed it on video.

Anyway, confirmation from the makers. It's the same rum. Finally.

[ChanceSchmerr]

8 hours ago, Ryan said:

One of the interesting stories from the festival. Yiorgos came over to me in Espacios after the Wednesday night event, I had been at the Palacio de Artisania event with a friend, and told me that he had met somebody interesting, Alexandr of Pernod Ricard, Activation Manager for Havana Club rums.

Yiorgos described the tasting we had done, apparently Alexandr found it very interesting and replied "why would you have noticed a difference? It's the same rum."

I met Alexandr myself at the Women's International cigar event on the Friday where he confirmed again but not on video. At that event there was a speech given by the first "Maestra Ronera",  Salomé Carriazo. The first female master of rum in Cuba. There are only 7 "Maestros Roneros" in Cuba at any one time. After her speech she asked for any questions. The first was from Rob Fox, "what's the difference between Havana Club Barrel Proof and Seleccion de Maestros". "There is no difference" was her reply. Again, I missed it on video.

Anyway, confirmation from the makers. It's the same rum. Finally.

Glad to hear it confirmed yet again. I can stop hoarding my last half bottle of Barrel Proof from Gibraltar in '07, and actually enjoy the bloody stuff!

Thanks Andy!

[oliverdst]

Ia there a big diference in price?

I tried check online and found something like 20%. Is that correct?

[Ryan]

On 3/11/2017 at 0:42 AM, oliverdst said:

Ia there a big diference in price?

I tried check online and found something like 20%. Is that correct?

The "Barrel Proof" packaging was discontinued about 6 years ago. If you can find a bottle that you want for a collection, grab it. 

The price of Seleccion de Maestros varies from 50 cuc in Cuba, about €80 in Ireland, when available. About €50 in Spain, when it can be found. There are duty-free areas where it is a bit cheaper.