Why do Cuban cigars need lower humidity?

[stargazer14]

Wait, you hate Neil Young?? I take back everything I said.

[PigFish]

Wait, you hate Neil Young?? I take back everything I said.

... see, see, I told you Ross!!! -LOL

[OZCUBAN]

Hi Ray

I know you have a dislike for this "Guru-****",but all I can say well spoken and so eloquently put .

Maybe there is a way of building that better "mouse trap"

Cheers

Steve

[Colt45]

Here is the long and short of it Ross.

Ray, sorry to drag you back in!

I completely was not thinking of cigar moisture content as "different" - oops!

Thanks much for taking the time

[stargazer14]

All these theories of (humidity & temperature) relativity are great but one thing everyone must remember is to not start freaking out or losing sleep or beating the dog if for a few days or even weeks when you can't get the 'perfect' number you expect your smokes to have.

I tell newbies here this all the time when they are going on about how thier cigars are going to be ruined because the readout says 69% instead of 66% or some nonsense.

In time you will figure where you like it, you will figure out how to keep it close to that, you will figure out your NC's like to be a little damper when smoked or whatever. In the meantime your cigars are fine.

What Piggy is not telling you is "It's better to burn out, than to fade away"

[PigFish]

All these theories of (humidity & temperature) relativity are great but one thing everyone must remember is to not start freaking out or losing sleep or beating the dog if for a few days or even weeks when you can't get the 'perfect' number you expect your smokes to have.

I tell newbies here this all the time when they are going on about how thier cigars are going to be ruined because the readout says 69% instead of 66% or some nonsense.

In time you will figure where you like it, you will figure out how to keep it close to that, you will figure out your NC's like to be a little damper when smoked or whatever. In the meantime your cigars are fine.

What Piggy is not telling you is "It's better to burn out, than to fade away"

You gotta' do what works for you! I always say this to everyone. Cigars are pretty tough. You have to be pretty neglectful to ruin them. I am one of those guys who cares what kind of oil I put in the car and have an opinion about what the best fertilizer is to put on the lawn. I like to run Adobe CS6 on a Mac and CAD on a PC!!! I am picky about things!

A lot of these discussions are academic. I am in fact an academic and pragmatic cigar climatologist! There are facts here, better methods and means. I am always looking for those. My degree of dedication to the topic is fun for me to share and hopefully entertaining to read. No one need blindly follow me. I present my opinions and my facts and I am open to discussion and even some flack over them. That makes for interesting reading, at least to me.

Neil Young, the definition of hell for me would be reincarnated as one of his amplifiers!

Cheers all. -Ray

[Colt45]

Neil Young, the definition of hell for me would be reincarnated as one of his amplifiers!

how about as his harmonica?

[polarbear]

I dont worry to much about my RH, as long as its between 62% and 72% I'm happy

My cigars smoke fine regardelss of where they're from.

I figure, cigars have been around for 100+ years, but the abiltiy to accurately measure and regulate humidity has only been readily available for the last 15 years. Before then, it was just a case of putting a piece of wet foam or half a potato in the humi and hoping for the best

[stargazer14]

Once again, what Piggy said - sans the Neil diss.

[Jagger]

This is an interesting topic for me because I too wonder why Cuban cigars need a lower humidity level. I don't find it to have anything to do with my preference, rather what works and what doesn't work. I prefer the taste of CC at 70%+, but they just don't burn well and many are just too tight to draw at an enjoyable level. They have to be in the low 60s to draw properly. NC draw well at high levels though.

[mk05]

They don't

[Ghabanos]

60% for dry box and 65% for humi. And the rest at whatever rob sets it for storage in aus.

[Ginseng]

Informative thread. Really, quite a good read. All pretty interesting stuff and thanks Ray for attempting to inject a little rigor. I'll assail you on one point only, and that is that is your assertion that it's all about user preference. Clearly it is not. If it were truly the case, then the situation devolves into one of philosophical incommensurability, or absolute relativism with respect to the quality and use of cigars.

That is to say whatever and however you treat and use your cigars are your choice (which it is) and because it is your choice, it is "as good as" any other condition (which it is not). How many times have any one of use taught a new cigar smoker to slow it down, draw more deliberately but gently, to light minimally, to retrohale and see their eyes light up as a totally new and different experienced open up to them? This is also the case with two opposing techniques which have minimal scientific demonstration but at least some experiential/empirical basis: dry boxing and dampening the wrapper. That these techniques change the experience of smoking any particular cigar should not be in question any more. The truly relevant point is whether the degree and direction of change in the smoking quality of that cigar is a function of the equilibrium storage conditions and is systematic in any way, particularly with regard to the OP's question v Cuban cigars needing lower humidity (than non-Cubans).

Surprisingly, nobody has yet examined the concept needing in this case though the responses suggest that people are applying different interpretations. But a proper discussion must eventually seek to define the concept under question. Does it mean to burn with equivalent quality? Does it mean to achieve optimal sensory qualities? Does it mean to minimize draw issues? Each one of these senses of the concept needing merits consideration of a host of points, some of which overlap. And although the entire experience is ultimately a blend of all senses, to really address this question demands that we unpack it.

So, I think this post has gotten long enough

I will say that in my experience, isotherms notwithstanding, all else being equal, there is not much difference for me within the range of 62-72%RH between Habanos and non-Cubans. And I think that is an important point to make. While each cigar is an individual, performance across several of those parameters I referred to above simply doesn't vary all that much for most cigars. And if it varies, it's unlikely that any smoker can accurately attribute the variance of any particular specimen, with confidence, to a specific factor although we may think we can (see this page on some relevant biases and illusions that may be in play https://en.wikipedia...fulltext=Search) if for no other reason that the cause may be a blend of several factors.

So, with that, I return you to your regular program.

Cheers mates,

Wilkey

[PigFish]

Informative thread. Really, quite a good read. All pretty interesting stuff and thanks Ray for attempting to inject a little rigor. I'll assail you on one point only, and that is that is your assertion that it's all about user preference. Clearly it is not. If it were truly the case, then the situation devolves into one of philosophical incommensurability, or absolute relativism with respect to the quality and use of cigars.

That is to say whatever and however you treat and use your cigars are your choice (which it is) and because it is your choice, it is "as good as" any other condition (which it is not). How many times have any one of use taught a new cigar smoker to slow it down, draw more deliberately but gently, to light minimally, to retrohale and see their eyes light up as a totally new and different experienced open up to them? This is also the case with two opposing techniques which have minimal scientific demonstration but at least some experiential/empirical basis: dry boxing and dampening the wrapper. That these techniques change the experience of smoking any particular cigar should not be in question any more. The truly relevant point is whether the degree and direction of change in the smoking quality of that cigar is a function of the equilibrium storage conditions and is systematic in any way, particularly with regard to the OP's question v Cuban cigars needing lower humidity (than non-Cubans).

Surprisingly, nobody has yet examined the concept needing in this case though the responses suggest that people are applying different interpretations. But a proper discussion must eventually seek to define the concept under question. Does it mean to burn with equivalent quality? Does it mean to achieve optimal sensory qualities? Does it mean to minimize draw issues? Each one of these senses of the concept needing merits consideration of a host of points, some of which overlap. And although the entire experience is ultimately a blend of all senses, to really address this question demands that we unpack it.

So, I think this post has gotten long enough

I will say that in my experience, isotherms notwithstanding, all else being equal, there is not much difference for me within the range of 62-72%RH between Habanos and non-Cubans. And I think that is an important point to make. While each cigar is an individual, performance across several of those parameters I referred to above simply doesn't vary all that much for most cigars. And if it varies, it's unlikely that any smoker can accurately attribute the variance of any particular specimen, with confidence, to a specific factor although we may think we can (see this page on some relevant biases and illusions that may be in play https://en.wikipedia...fulltext=Search) if for no other reason that the cause may be a blend of several factors.

So, with that, I return you to your regular program.

Cheers mates,

Wilkey

So who tied a tin can to your tail all of a sudden like? -LOL

Ahh, Wilkey the heady days of enthusiastic objective discussions about tobacco, debating guru theories and the subjective concept of taste without all the whining!!! -LOL Where is our friend Jonathan when we need him. He has always been good for an egg-head rant!

Hell, I forgot this thread existed, but maybe I will re-read it and meet you once more on this field of battle...

Well written and conceived, I tip my hat to you. I will have to write more carefully if you are back to proofing... Cheers, mate!

[kuma]

For what it is worth, I like early Neil Young (CSNY).. almost cut my hair.......and as I read these posts I'm currently smoking a Bolivar 108

from my humi. at 70% and it is outstanding as are the Inmensos, Dip. Col. Priv. and the rest of my RE's and reg. production smokes.

This temp. works well for my smokes not sure why but I have learned "if it is not broke then leave it alone" cheers mates.

[next]

I don´t know the reason... 65% and 18º-20º C are good for me