Are green patches on Behike normal?

[frito]

I am in general agreement with this statement. Here is the exception.

If one can manage the rationalle for the cost of this cigar, should it not be exceptional in every way? This is a core problem with the Habanos enthusiast. While we are willing to compromise on many fronts due to our understanding of the cigar trade, we should frankly be not willing to compromise when the cigar that took 30 cents to make costs $30.00 bucks!

If these guys can mangage to get the box lid to line up with the box bottom, should they not be choosing perfect wrappers for their premier line of cigar? Put that wrapper on a different cigar and pick out the perfect ones for these high line items.

These types of errors, while cosmetic only, show Tabacuba's contempt for its high-line customer!

Do the spots mean anything? No, not to flavor, but they certainly tell you what Tabacuba thinks of you as a customer. As far as they are concerned, you will buy any crap at any price as long as it says Cohiba and comes in a nice box!

This is not personal regarding the thread starter's cigars or the thread starter. It is a comment about Tabacuba.

-the Pig

I fully agree!

Although it is just aesthetics, i'm ok for all other cigars. Just like Shlomo mentioned, BHKs are the flagship cigar for Habanos and these should be rejected during QC at the factory.

Its like buying ferrari and you get a patchy paint job, but it does perform like a prancing horse on the other end.

I am a marketing guy. If my customers are paying premium for my company flagship product, you would want your product to be close to perfect.

Tabacuba really needs to further improve their branding & marketing policy, they have such great product but they are just sitting on it or maby they like it the way it is.

Even HSA website is crappy, it looks so out-dated and always having errors trying to auth your box seal and like some says, their seals can be forged. So there is no point in checking it really.

Im just imagining, if I was doing some of their marketing.

Internally,

1: Improve QC on premium product.

2: "consistency" is the keyword for all products, flavour, colour, quality

3:Give back to the cuban community, charity and sorts. I do hope they treat their workers well and they should. Build a HSA school, hospital etc.

Externally, to raise CC awareness.

1: celebrity endorsement

2: sponsorship for prestigios events, golf, yachting, etc

3:doing some LE using names instead of numbers. maby a "Che collection", or a novelty "Clinton collection"

4:Anti-counterfeit, perhaps they can laser engrave on the wrappers of their cigars, this can keep fake CC at bay for the next 5-10 years and gain consumer trust for CC.

I'd better stop imagining or someone is gonna throw cold water on me.

On the contrary, if such improvement was to happen, there will be an increase in marketing cost, us BOTL will have to pay much more. So I think, let things be the way it is for now. Hahaha

just my 2 cents

Just curious, anyone with with 1966 had ugly cigars?

[nikesupremedunk]

All boils down to supply and demand I guess. Since people are buying them up, Habanos can put as much green patch on the BHK's as they want. I love CC's but hate that the QC is horrible compared to NC's. Unfortunately, I doubt we can do anything about it.

[Guest rob]

Green spots are ok, but large green patches are not. AFAIK it's a defect of maturation…

This was my understanding of what it was also... Incomplete fermentation.

Strange when you consider that we're told Cohiba leaf gets three fermentations, rather than the regular two.

[IcedCanuck]

I am in general agreement with this statement. Here is the exception.

If one can manage the rationalle for the cost of this cigar, should it not be exceptional in every way? This is a core problem with the Habanos enthusiast. While we are willing to compromise on many fronts due to our understanding of the cigar trade, we should frankly be not willing to compromise when the cigar that took 30 cents to make costs $30.00 bucks!

If these guys can mangage to get the box lid to line up with the box bottom, should they not be choosing perfect wrappers for their premier line of cigar? Put that wrapper on a different cigar and pick out the perfect ones for these high line items.

These types of errors, while cosmetic only, show Tabacuba's contempt for its high-line customer!

Do the spots mean anything? No, not to flavor, but they certainly tell you what Tabacuba thinks of you as a customer. As far as they are concerned, you will buy any crap at any price as long as it says Cohiba and comes in a nice box!

This is not personal regarding the thread starter's cigars or the thread starter. It is a comment about Tabacuba.

-the Pig

I could not agree more. Do I really care that some of the cigars on my box of Bolivar Royal Coronas have a few green spots on them? Hell no! Do I care that even one cigar in my box of BHK 54 that costs close to $400 has a small blemish on it ... YES. Even though it does not change the taste, nor will it affect the burn or the draw it bothers me. Paying almost $400 for ten cigars, they had better be perfect. Have you ever bought a NEW car/truck/SUV that came with a small scratch in the paint? A little ding here or there? Or perhaps a little bit of mud on the back? None of those things will change the way the car drives but would you accept that vehicle? I know what I would tell them. I submit that buying a 'high-end' box of 'bling' where top dollar is spent should be treated the same. Otherwise, as the Pig said: "These types of errors, while cosmetic only, show Tabacuba's contempt for its high-line customer!"

[Puros Y Vino]

I have to agree with the sentiments above. The BHK's are meant to be flagships. There's no excuse for them to not be cosmetically appealing. A green spot on a Quinteros, RyJ PC...or basically any non Cohiba brand is acceptable IMO. The Cohiba line commands a premium because the marketing tells us the leaves are aged longer, hand picked for quality, etc. It doesn't jive that they made these beautiful boxes for the cigars to then have the cigars be less than perfect.

[LLC]

I have to agree with the sentiments above. The BHK's are meant to be flagships. There's no excuse for them to not be cosmetically appealing. A green spot on a Quinteros, RyJ PC...or basically any non Cohiba brand is acceptable IMO. The Cohiba line commands a premium because the marketing tells us the leaves are aged longer, hand picked for quality, etc. It doesn't jive that they made these beautiful boxes for the cigars to then have the cigars be less than perfect.

X2

I'd be upset a getting BHK's that came like that. They should have been smoked on the factory floor not sold at full price.

[Colt45]

For me, this is all interesting........

I understand the aesthetics / price considerations. Purely for conversation, would you rather have the highest quality wrapper with these "blemishes" (personally, I don't give these spots a second thought), or have them choose visually perfect wrappers that weren't first quality?.....

[CaptainQuintero]

Genuinely doesn't bother me as long as something smokes well. Leaves are part of nature, if nature was perfect there would be a lot less people around

[dangolf18]

For me, this is all interesting........

I understand the aesthetics / price considerations. Purely for conversation, would you rather have the highest quality wrapper with these "blemishes" (personally, I don't give these spots a second thought), or have them choose visually perfect wrappers that weren't first quality?.....

Well I guess it depends that if green blemishes are a sign of improper aging or just water spots. As to your question, obviously I'd choose a cigar with first rate wrapper with blemishes over second-rate wrapper with no blemishes. However, the flavor of cigars hardly comes from the wrapper, so I'd say the quality of the binder and filler is what really matters. Bottomline is I'm not going to write-off a cigar based on it's appearance but there is usually a strong correlation between how a wrapper looks and the overall quality of the cigar.

[IcedCanuck]

For me, this is all interesting........

I understand the aesthetics / price considerations. Purely for conversation, would you rather have the highest quality wrapper with these "blemishes" (personally, I don't give these spots a second thought), or have them choose visually perfect wrappers that weren't first quality?.....

For me personally, at that price, IMHO I am paying for the best of both worlds. Some guys prefer looks over personality, some personality over looks, some a little bit of both, but when you're doing the deed (and if the lights are off) it's all the same .... I do tend to have a dirty mind but I think it applies here. I don't pay BHK price to smoke in the dark...

[IcedCanuck]

Well I guess it depends that if green blemishes are a sign of improper aging or just water spots. As to your question, obviously I'd choose a cigar with first rate wrapper with blemishes over second-rate wrapper with no blemishes. However, the flavor of cigars hardly comes from the wrapper, so I'd say the quality of the binder and filler is what really matters. Bottomline is I'm not going to write-off a cigar based on it's appearance but there is usually a strong correlation between how a wrapper looks and the overall quality of the cigar.

Interesting, I have heard that roughly 40% of the flavour comes from the wrapper. Don't mean to hijack this thread but would anyone have links to any quasi-scientific breakdown/explanation on this subject?

[Colt45]

However, the flavor of cigars hardly comes from the wrapper.....

I've experimented with this and have found the opposite to be true.

[dangolf18]

Interesting, I have heard that roughly 40% of the flavour comes from the wrapper. Don't mean to hijack this thread but would anyone have links to any quasi-scientific breakdown/explanation on this subject?

There's a video on youtube of Hamlet rolling customs and he says only 5-10% of the flavor comes from the wrapper...it's very minor. 10% if the cigar is a maduro (I guess it would have to be the Cohiba Maduro 5 series).

[IcedCanuck]

Didn't somebody run an experiment not too long ago where they took a Siglo VI and a Genios, removed and swapped the wrappers from one cigar to the other then proceeded to smoke them. I could be mistaken but I swear I remember the person saying the Siglo VI with the Maduro 5 wrapper tasted like the Genios and the Genios with the Siglo VI wrapper tasted like a Siglo VI?

[Colt45]

Interesting, I have heard that roughly 40% of the flavour comes from the wrapper. Don't mean to hijack this thread but would anyone have links to any quasi-scientific breakdown/explanation on this subject?

If you're interested, my very subjective, unscientific findings for one cigar:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=106125&hl

[Diamondog]

However, the flavor of cigars hardly comes from the wrapper, so I'd say the quality of the binder and filler is what really matters.

There is a Hamlet video of him rolling at a B&M in the UK on youtube that discusses how much flavor does come from the wrapper worth a view, cant remember the title

[dangolf18]

Here is the video for all you non-believers lol. Watch from 4:00 to roughly 5:30.

[canadianbeaver]

Loved that video. Thank you! I have to agree that the wrapper is only a small part of the cigar taste for me.

[LGC]

There's a video on youtube of Hamlet rolling customs and he says only 5-10% of the flavor comes from the wrapper...it's very minor. 10% if the cigar is a maduro (I guess it would have to be the Cohiba Maduro 5 series).

I was shocked when I heard him say this while watching this video. When it comes to cigars, a lot of folks are unwilling to experiment and trust their own taste buds. They are more likely to believe opinions from anyone well known in the cigar world.

[Diamondog]

Here is the video for all you non-believers lol. Watch from 4:00 to roughly 5:30.

Thats the one, funny how we remember things, looks like hes saying less than 10%

[Fuzz]

Here's the links to the wrapper change experiment Rob conducted:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68081

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68151

[Smallclub]

Thats the one, funny how we remember things, looks like hes saying less than 10%

The experiments conducted by Rob on Cohiba Maduro/ Siglo VI showed the opposite: the wrapper had a major role.

[El Presidente]

I have had plenty of discussions with Hamlet regarding wrapper influence over the years. I think the difference between us in the subject is mostly semantics.

Let me explain.

Let's cook a great Rib Eye on the bone together. You add a 5% smear of Dijon mustard on top of yours. I will add a 5% smear of Dijon Grain mustard on top of mine.

There is no mistaking the flavour of the great steak. However the flavour is influenced/ adulterated by the type of mustard.

So is this difference 10% or 100%?

Hammy would believe it is say 10% because the flavour essence of the steak is there is spades

I would say 100% because the different mustard changes the flavour experience. I find it hard to reconcile flavour change as 5% or 10% or 20 %. If it changes...well to me it is change and hence 100%.

Now going back to my own wrapper test of putting Maduro 5 wrappers on Siglo 6 and Coro's. They were a completely different cigar! Mind you, when we put a Siglo VI wrapper on a Genios it smoked very much like a Siglo VI. That says a lot about the similarity of the blends.

We have done this numerous times and not only with Maduro wrappers. Just taking a great wrapper off a Robusto (D4) and applying it to another D4. Light the D4, get 1/3 of the way through and after trimming the initial wrapper, applying it again and smoking the balance. Chalk and cheese difference.

I am not saying that I have it right in the %'s of wrapper influence. Simply that in my mind the wrappers are an intricate part of flavour. If you change the flavour through a change in wrapper then to me it is a change in experience and hence 100%.

[canadianbeaver]

This is an interesting discussion about wrapper/ binder and filler, esp since all are Cuban, as opposed to NC's where 3 elements can be from who knows where.

Personally, the description of tastes can be more detailed and descriptive than I could ever come up with in a review (vanilla coated coffee beans with a hint of port and a peanut butter finish ). So perhaps that is why the wrapper taste profile is less obvious for a neanderthal like me.

[dangolf18]

We "non-believers" are not exactly non believers in what you say, its just that we think Hamlet is wrong.

I kinda meant it tongue in cheek. But it makes sense to me considering the wrapper makes up 1-2% of the tobacco of a cigar.